If the lowest price was the issue the OP could have booked with Italo. My trip back to Rome from Florence is costing me €9. Actually get change back from that.

I don't care for the Italo trains much, but for such a short ride a bargain is a bargain. Usually if it's available on Italo, Trenitalia will have a similar rate.

>>>the OP has a 90 minute trip and will barely get settled before it's time to gather things to get off. <<<

Someday someone will reveal the elaborate rituals Fodor's travelers perform or the anxiety they experience that means they are not settled into their train seat within 5 minutes of sitting in it, or are begin worrying an hour in advance about missing their stop (do you stand near the door?), and apparently need hours to check into and out of hotels.

I have taken several dozen trips Business Class trips of less than one hour -- let alone 90 minutes -- on Italian fast trains. I've always been given a drink/snack. I've been perfectly relaxed, including about my luggage. If for some reason I needed a favor from other passengers -- switching seats, for instance -- it worked really well. The bathrooms are clean. The stations are announced well in advance. When the train slows down in anticipation of entering the station for my stop, I have no panic about getting my luggage. I just get it and walk to the door and leave.


The real issue is that some people want to try to make the OP feel bad for some reason, and sneer and be petty. Like he made a "mistake" and he'll be sorry. Why? Who said the OP is "scrimping" on a hotel? Who on earth cares if somebody else prefers to take more clothes in a bigger suitcase when they travel. Humph. Harrumph! You're inferior. I'm superior. What travel does to some people is make them so narrow minded they see nothing but the tunnels.

kybourbon - don't be dismissive of Italo. Without them Frecciarossa prices would be a lot higher!

Even in the solo seats you still have someone sitting across from you (unless you have a travel partner).>

don't have solo seats facing back of solo seats anymore?

Like these in www.seat61.com photos:

https://www.google.com/search?q=1st+...q92wH112bHtqM:

Not everyone's goal is to ride around on trains all their trips and scrimp on hotels. Many do the opposite. I would rather spend less on a 90 minute train than on my meals or hotels>

99.99% of folks here do not have to scimp on either - why wealthy tourists put them in a much more crowded 2nd class to save a handful of euros and spend 200 euros or more on hotels is mind-boggling - point is treat train travel like other things - yes if traveling a lot and local like you with just small bag I'd go 2nd class which is much more comfy on the newest trains than before but still a difference -ah those solo seats and more luggage room are keys for me.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ssainterno.jpg

Give me a break - are you suggesting that this is what a typical 2nd-class Italian train car looks like - no - put folks in every seat - their baggage on loaded luggage racks - why trot out that promo picture and portray it as reality? Who would not ride 2nd class if this is what it is like. Please quit distorting reality - or do you say this photo is what you should expect of 2nd class?

That said many here find 2nd class on newer trains at least perfectly OK but others have said 'never again'. But in any case there is a reason why Italians -many pay more for 1st class - are they throwing their euros away? Are they dumb? This is what you claim it seems.

2nd class fine- 1st class finer. Take it from Man in Seat 61 who once said here about Italian trains "I too am an aficionado of 1st class." Is Man dumb?

>>>Who said the OP is "scrimping" on a hotel? <<<

No one. I was adressing PQ as he always posts 1st class trains are the way to go (because he buys 1st class passes and has a thing for riding trains) yet posts he stays in hostels, etc.

>>> But in any case there is a reason why Italians -many pay more for 1st class - are they throwing their euros away? Are they dumb? This is what you claim it seems.<<<

Another of your mantras, yet I don't find it the case. In fact, I find business class (aka 1st class) often empty (whether on Italo or Trenitalia).

>>>kybourbon - don't be dismissive of Italo. Without them Frecciarossa prices would be a lot higher!<<

Yes, I do think they help keep Trenitalia prices in check, but I just don't care for their trains. Less seats with tables and less service. More of a bare bones. I do find I can often save a few euro on walk-up price over Trenilalia, but it's generally only a couple of euro.

>>>don't have solo seats facing back of solo seats anymore?<<<

Your picture is not even an Italian train so I don't know why you would even post it. The Trenitalia Italian fast trains have mostly seats facing seats with a table to share. At the ends of the car (often next to the stinky bathrooms),the last couple of seats similar to airlines seats with a small drop-down tray instead of a table. Italo business class (at least on the trains I've been on) has more of the drop-down tray type and less tables. You don't have the surface space to do as much on the drop-downs plus you have to put it up if you get up for anything. You don't have to do that with tables.

No one. I was adressing PQ as he always posts 1st class trains are the way to go (because he buys 1st class passes and has a thing for riding trains) yet posts he stays in hostels, etc.>

I have not stayed in a hostel for maybe 35 years - where do you get that stuff from?

In fact, I find business class (aka 1st class) often empty (whether on Italo or Trenitalia).>

Ah the great great reason I love first class - I always seem to be able to put my bag on a nearby unoccupied seat-

Your picture is not even an Italian train so I don't know why you would even post it.>

Right but I meant to post this picture of an Italo train:

https://www.google.com/search?q=ital...Rg3fhgBFxRMcM:

does it not have many single solo seats?

Anyway if you want lots of empty seats to spread out on and have your bags near you go first class.

FWIW, I ride European trains very, very often. I never go 1st Class. The very minimal difference between 1st and 2nd Class is hardly noticeable to me. That said, we never have anything larger than a 21" rollaboard and a handbag each, so we can easily handle our luggage ourselves.I don't need to "spread out" and I don't need help with my luggage. And I have never chained anything on a train and never would. YMMV.

Yes YMMV!

Still can't fathom why any European would pay more for first class or even why there is a first class if the difference is minimal - but it is subjective -to some it is others not.

I think it does make a difference if carrying lots of luggage and those solo seats to me are a huge difference but again not to others maybe.

Boy!!!! I haven't visited the site for a couple of days.

This is not the trip of our lives. We've been on many trips and traveled by train many times.

When we started to travel we were young with two small children. Now we are in our early-mid seventies and each trip finds us upping our level of travel somewhat.

Our hotels are nicer for sure. This time we decided to travel business class going in the hope of getting some decent sleep and being fresh upon arrival. We'll see.

However, we still try to not throw out our money. We want something of value to us in return.

Part of our plan is to go on a day trip. No luggage, short trip - 2nd class. No problem.

Thanks for the responses. They were definitely a help.

"Still can't fathom why any European would pay more for first class or even why there is a first class if the difference is minimal - but it is subjective -to some it is others not."

Not everybody cares about the price difference. If you need to work the extra room is a positive. If you book late you might not find anything else. Especially if you're in a group and want to sit together.

I rode 1st class today on a Frecciabianca train to Rome. The economy tickets were sold out in 2nd class, so the price was about the same. I have nothing against people riding in 1st class. I just want people to have an accurate description of the difference between the classes.

First of all, as I said above, there is no extra leg room in 1st class, or Business class, and only a little extra seat width.

The free snack on Frecciarossa trains is only a beverage and a tiny pack of peanuts, no pastry. On short rides I've never been offered anything. The last time I got a free snack, a train employee walked quickly down the aisle with a cart, not offering anything, or announcing anything. I just happened to look up from my book, or I would have missed her. There is no free snack on Frecciargento or Frecciabianca trains.

There were seven people in our car, at its maximum occupancy, and three of them were us.

In fact, few Italians ride 1st class. There were six 2nd class cars on our train and one 1st class car, with seven people in it. The newest model of Frecciarossa train has about half the number of Business seats as the previous model, and Executive class no longer even has a full car;on the new Frecciarossa 1000 trains, it is in half the lounge car.

Palenq constantly misrepresents Italian trains. I don't think he's been on one lately. I've been on 1st-class trains in other European countries that really were significantly different from 2nd class, but that's not the case in Italy.

What Italo now calls the comfort class are older first class cars. They're newer then most airplanes.

First of all, as I said above, there is no extra leg room in 1st class, or Business class, and only a little extra seat width.>

Why not tell all the benefits of first class - mainly those single row of seats - aisle and window both - bvlenci never even mentions when describing differences between classes and that is the major difference and why I love them. That said I travel on a budget and only go first class because I usually have a first-class railpass for all of Europe. If I was paying out of pocket I'd go third-class if possible or 4th!

Granted Italian trains are better than ever but it is subjective- not sure why bvlenci constantly misrepresents first class benefits- never acknowledging those solo seats- which give you more than just a few inches of seat size and more leg room by not having someone next to you.

All I am saying there is a significant difference - whether it is worth it or not each person has to determine.