eurogals

There will be two married couples traveling to France in mid-September 2007. I have already put together an itinerary and would love my fellow “Fodorites” to critique it for me.

We will probably be there for 4+ weeks, probably from 9/13 to 10/15. Might plan on late September to late October. I like the off season, but don’t want to be the only person there.

Les Andelys – 1 night
Honfleur – 3 nights
Bayeux – 3 nights
Dinan – 2 nights

Train from Rennes to Lyon which is a direct train.

Lyon – 2 nights
Annecy – 3 nights
St. Remy – 6 nights
Beaune – 3 nights
Paris – 3 nights
Brugge – 3 nights
Amsterdam – 3 nights

The other couple doesn’t like to move around too much and I’m afraid I might have too many different cities for overnights. Any suggestions for where I might be able to stay in one spot and still see the area. Does this trip seem too tiring? What would you cut out? Lyon and Annecy are put in for the other couple so I have to keep them.

We are 62, 65, 67, and 72 years of age. Stong and in good shape.

bobludlow

I definitely prefer September to October: both months offer fewer crowds, but the farther into October you drift the colder and wetter and darker (shorter days) it will get.

I also agree with your friends - ELEVEN different hotels?!? I recommend picking three places you all want to visit and then day-tripping from there. For example, Lyon and Annecy are only two hours apart, so why not sleep at one and visit the other?

Neopolitan

I've done many one month or longer trips, and although I'd like a stay or two of 5 nights to a week here and there, I'm perfectly fine with 3 night stays most places and even a couple of 1 or 2 night stays. It's just a different way of doing things. You could combine Honfleur, Bayeux, and Dinan for example and find one place for the full 8 nights which might make it easier, but we enjoy walking to a different restaurant every night and would enjoy having three different bases. Frankly I like your plan better as I think I'd become "bored" with any of those towns for an 8 night stay. Only you and the other couple can figure out which you'd all prefer.

And while Lyon and Annecy are fairly close, each has its own feel. Staying in one and doing the other as a day trip is a lot different from staying a couple nights in each.

I'm a little curious though. Are you doing this with a car or not? A 17 day or longer AutoFrance lease would be perfect for you -- but that train in the middle has me thrown.

By the way, one of my favorite trips was
22 weeks and we stayed in 53 hotels -- so that's not so different from your plan.

Have you been to Paris before? Spending 9 nights in the Normandy area, but only 3 in Paris seems a bit odd to me, but maybe there is a reason.

Sue_xx_yy

We routinely do 8 to 11 hotels in a 12 to 18 night period, or an average of 10 in 15 nights. (I would rather move frequently, then drive or rail further between stops.) So 11 stops in twice the time looks pretty relaxed to me!

I notice you wish to visit both the north-west and the south-east of France, which of course are at diametric opposites of each other, and also see Brugges and Amsterdam which of course are in the north-east. So frankly given your choice of spots to visit I don't see how you could cover this territory any more efficiently than you have planned - Neo has already pointed out that you could consolidate Honfleur and Bayeux, but I too would enjoy the variety of staying in both places in the evenings. I suppose if you eliminate Beaune, you could TGV straight from Avignon to Paris, which would save a move....but then that increases your commuting time, which is also tiring....

Try to get the other couple to nail down their preferences. "Don't want to move around too much" isn't very specific.

eurogals

Neopolitan: Yes I have been to Paris 7-8 times and would actually like to avoid it but that makes the train ride too long. Going from Beaune to Brugge is a long day on the train with lots of transfer so I always enjoy Paris so that is why.

We are picking up a car at the CDG airport and returning it in Rennes after we see Normandy.

There is a direct train from Rennes to Lyon with a transfer to Annecy. May cut out Lyon and spend a long day on the train. Only going there because other couples has a connection there.

Taking train from Annecy to Avignon TGV and getting a car for Provence area. Will drop off in Avignon and train to Beaune and the rest of the trip will be by train.

My husband loves to take the train, so since he is doing all the driving I want to incorporate some relaxing train days into the itinerary.

Neopolitan

OK, then. Well explained.
Sounds great to me!

suze

Because you *specifically* say the other couple doesn't like to move around too much... well yes I think you are planning on moving around too much! Even with a whole month, changing cities & hotels 11 times would be horrible for me (since I don't like to move around so much -LOL).

kerouac

You might be overplanning. September makes it a lot easier to find hotels, and I would give myself the option of staying longer in places that I liked and leaving the next morning from other places that I didn't care for -- and maybe skipping a place or two (or adding an unplanned stop).

twoflower

Good itinerary. Perhaps a worry that you're travelling with friends who like to "stay put" more, but moving around the way you've planned it would certainly suit me.
I too have a 4-week itinerary of France planned, which I won't bore you with right now (it's your thread not mine - I'll throw it open for comments later, perhaps), but it too is a very "mobile" one. And we have another couple who are quite insistently hinting they'd like to come along for the ride. They're good friends, but I'm not sure it's a good idea. A trip like that is pretty much a once-in-a-lifetime event, and it wouldn't sit well at all to have to compromise on a lifelong dream because of other peoples' likes and dislikes. This goes for them as much as us, of course!

RonZ

If you are without a car in Annecy, I think 2 nights would be better than 3.

Here is a very pleasant drive starting from Honfleur and looping back around.
On the day we took it we stopped for lunch in Deauville.

Leave town on the D580, following the signs to the A13 and the Pont de Normandie. Continue past the bridge, turning left on to the D312 along the Siene estuary and through the village of Berville-sur-Mer.

Keep on the D312 and then left in Toutainville on the N175 to Pont-Audener.
Then return on the N175, past Toutainville and then Beuzeville to Pont-l-Eveque.

The next destination is Lisieux, but do not take the D579. Wait and turn left onto the D48, opposite the police station. This is a pretty counry lane following the River Touque.

Head west out of Lisieux on the N13 [direction Caen]. After passing the Chateau de Crevecouer-en-Ague, keep your eyes peeled for Carrefour-St-Jean, and turn right on to the D16 and then left on the D49 to Beuvron-en-Auge. Get the camera ready, because this town is so picturesque it looks like a movie set.

Follow the D49 to the N175, turn left and then immediately right on the D400 to Dives-sur-Mer. From here it’s east along the coast on the D513 past Houlgate, Deauville and Trouville on the way back to Honfleur.

Before you reach town, there will be a sign and a right turn to the Manoir du Butin. We stopped to check it out, and enamored with the lovely dining room, we returned that evening for one of the best dinners of our trip.

Dukey

I would ask two questions:

1) How much direct input does that "other couple" have, or WANT in this?

2) If they don't say they want input are you going to insist that they buy into this trip so that if one place, or another, is not satisfying you don;t end up being the "bad guy?"

Perhaps it has been pointed out before but as great as some people think Brugge is I think there nights there is TOO many, especially when you are only spending three in Paris where this is much, much more to see and do as you already know.

I know you would "like to avoid Paris" but would the other couple?

I am not criticizing your itinerary per se but I can possibly see problems ahead, and possible dissatisfaction afterward if it is entirely based on your own wants and desires.

JulieVikmanis

Only 3 of your 11 stops are for 2 nights or less (actually only one is for 1) That's what I regard as bad stops. Packing and unpacking for a single or two nights is a lot of work. It helps that your short stops are near the beginning of the trip when you are a bit more enthusiastic and fresher. The rest of your stops are all 3 nights or more and reward the effort. The long six night stop is in the middle for a good rest before resuming the somewhat shorter stops. I'd say you have a very nice plan. I also commend you for your balance of driving and training. Sounds to me like you have worked hard to please everyone and fit everything in and have pretty well done so. Enjoy. And tell anyone who complains that they can do the planning next time. That ought to quiet them down.

Neopolitan

RonZ has a good point about Annecy. I forgot you wouldn't have a car there. It is one of the few places in France where we didn't have a car and wished we did. It was not a place to get to other places easily from by trains.

Three nights is great for Brugge. That's a place where I love to spend the evenings and nights but can easily go off by train for day trips -- Brussells, Ghent, Antwerp. None of which would do as much for me at night as Brugge does.

Julie, when traveling we never mind a few stops of one or two nights, so long as there aren't a lot of them strung together. Our rule is that we live out of a suitcase for a single night. Three nights or more and we unpack everything.
And actually there is only one single night stop -- the first one, which I assume had to do with arrival time, car pickup, or something similar. If there is no plan to do day trips out from Lyon, for example, I think two nights there is just fine. Why spend another just for the sake of staying put longer? I'd probably be anxious after two days to move on. Changing the two night destinations to three night ones, mean you'll have to cut something out -- and I suspect all these places were chosen for a reason.

Regarding the idea of overplanning -- I've never thought that was possible so long as you don't totally commit yourself to being too rigid to budge from a plan. Frankly with a couple or three nights in each place, I would not like to spend half of any of those days searching for a place to stay (but then I'm kind of picky about where I stay). I'd rather get to a destination and know my nice little carefully selected hotel is there and waiting for us. Why waste time and effort driving around searching and choosing a place?
Advance planning should also tell you what you want to do in each place and how long you'll want to stay there. If you feel you want to stay a day longer -- that may well be possible if your next room is cancellable -- but if not, it means you won't be able to do the things you wanted to do at the next destination anyway. In years of travel, we've only wanted to alter our number of days somewhere twice -- so we did without a problem. Sure you could stay in one place longer if you liked it, but then you'll have to live with the idea you're missing the next place that you had things you really wanted to do.

Christina

I don't know if it's too ambitious, but a lot of the places are just not ones I would care to stay, but generally, I don't think it's so bad (assuming others don't want Paris, either).

I dont' think the number of hotels is the issue, it's the time frame, and you are going to be gone a month. I may move around every 3 days or so on a trip when I am visiting several countries. Also, I think stops of 1-2 nights are often easier than longer ones, because if it's only one night, you don't really unpack at all. I think those stops are pretty easy myself. You only have one of them, anyway.

I might cut down the stops a bit (like not both Honfleur and Bayeux) but I don't think it's so bad.

Why do you want to be in Brugge for 3 nights?

Neopolitan

"Why do you want to be in Brugge three nights?"

Gee, Christine of all their three night stays why did you ask about Brugge? I think most who have visited these places would better understand 3 nights in Brugge than 3 nights in many of the other places -- Honfleur, Bayeux, Dinan, and Anncey among them. I think 3 nights is a maximum in most of the others, but I'd happily spend a week in Brugge if I had the time. As mentioned above, it's also a good base for doing Antwerp, Ghent, and even other places -- but a charming place to return each night.

Michael

I think that Lyon deserves more time than Annecy,

suze

eurogals- I think you are asking the wrong people. It doesn't really matter if Fodorites think this is too ambitious or not. We're not going on your trip. I think you need to have a meeting and discuss it with the 4 of you who will be taking the trip!!!

kerouac

I must admit that I have wondered if the number of days per city has been researched and decided with full information or just a whim here and there.

eurogals

Thank you all for your input, I shall way and measure each comment.

This will be the third trip we have taken with the other couple. We make great travel partners. The beauty is they have no opinion of where we go on our trips. They have always like my itineraries and are thrilled that I do all the work. My passion is planning trips.

Annecy was picked to accomodate their wishes, as they have a connection with some nuns from the Visitation Convent and I threw it in for them. Also, there is a good biking path around the lake as we all like some exercise thrown in with the touristy stuff.

My husband likes Brugges and we plan on biking there also. To the nearby town of Damme and further on.

With Honfleur we will probably go to Eterat and Deauville from there. And from Bayeux we will go to Mont St. Michel and the Caen and D-Day Beaches. I don't know my directions too well, but I feel like we don't want to do the D-Day beaches from Honfleur.

Also I want to touch a little on Brittany by staying in Dinan and visiting St. Malo.

The three days is so we can do some biking or hiking in those areas like Burgundy, Annecy and Brugge. I have been there previously so it for their pleasure this time. They are very physically active people.

Paris and Lyon are thrown in to mainly just cut down on the all day train ride. I'm considering skipping Lyon and going to Annecy for the long haul, but don't know if this is a good idea.

RonZ: thanks for the nice itineray. I look forward to the drive.

Thanks everyone your advice is appreciated. I'll take all the info I can get.

suze

Some people seem lukewarm about Annecy above. I sent a girlfriend there this past summer (she had asked me to find a lakeside resort town in the mountains within short distance of her flight home from Geneva). This was my suggestion passed on by a kind poster here on Fodor's. She absolutely LOVED it!