How about you research a few itineraries with the various escorted tours and let them pick (your Dad and his wife)? Rather than 'comments seem to imply' just let them choose their gift from you.

Venice is fantastic but you and your backpack could go at some other point on a leisurely visit. It is geographically quite out of the way from the other spots you've mentioned.

Wow! Everyone here has a very definite opinion on Venice. I would expect that.

I would also say Venice is a MUST because I lOVED it when I was there, and will go back again, no doubt!

HOWEVER, EVERYONE I know who has been there, without exception either LOVED or HATED it!

The reason? If you hit it when it's not too hot and smelly and overrun with tourists, you will love it.

If you hit it when it IS hot and smelly and overrun with tourists, you will just think it's another tourist dive.

We were there just after it had been raining, in April, just prior to Easter. We had the place to ourselves and it was fantastic. Ditto for my sister and her family. However, I know of at least 3 other people who had the exact opposite experience.

I've also been to Amsterdam. It's great. Lots to see and do there, just wandering the city. Although if I had to choose between them, it would definitely be Venice for me.

Being on a guided tour should help in Venice, you won't be as apt to having to wait in long lines to see things.

What about this Trafalgar tour called "European Highlights"? You could arrive in London earlier, in order to take a side-trip to Cotswalds.
Day 1 - Depart USA - Overnight flight to London.

Day 2 - Arrive London(2nights) - After checking into your Trafalgar hotel, the rest of the day is at leisure.

Day 3 - London sightseeing - Many major sights are included on today's morning sightseeing tour. (Continental breakfast)

Day 4 - London - Amsterdam - Greetings from our Tour Director before a scenic drive to the White Cliffs of Dover. Here we board our ferry for the short sea crossing to Calais in France. On our arrival we will continue by coach through Belgian countryside to Holland and Amsterdam, one of Europe's friendliest cities. This evening, we join our Tour Director for a welcome drink before we admire the 'Venice of the North' from a glass-covered boat on our included canal cruise. (Continental breakfast)

Day 5 - Amsterdam - Koblenz - After a morning orientation tour featuring the Mint Tower and the Royal Palace we will visit a diamond-cutting and polishing factory. Later, we travel past Arnhem, en route to Cologne to see its magnificent gothic Cathedral. Then we continue via Bonn to the Rhine Valley where we embark on a relaxing Rhine cruise gliding past terraced vineyards and medieval castles. We disembark at St. Goar with views of the Lorelei Rock before reaching our hotel in Koblenz. (Buffet breakfast/Dinner)

Day 6 - Koblenz - Lucerne(2nights) - Our first stop this morning is at Heidelberg to view its red sandstone Castle, towering above the University city of 'Student Prince' fame. Then we drive through the fairytale Black Forest where cuckoo-clocks were first invented, to Lake Titisee pausing to view the Rhine Falls at Schaffhausen. From here we continue into Switzerland past geranium-covered wooden chalets en route to the lakeside resort of Lucerne for our two-night stay. (Buffet breakfast/Dinner)

Day 7 - Lucerne orientation & at leisure - Our morning orientation tour features the highlights of this medieval town and visit the Lion Monument. Then free time to maybe take a trip up a nearby mountain peak for spectacular Alpine views or shop for watches and other specialities in the Old Town. Later, why not join in the fun of a Swiss Folklore show? (Buffet breakfast/Dinner)

Day 8 - Lucerne - Paris(2nights) - Today we head into France, passing Belfort and the remains of the Maginot Line. Then past the onion-domed churches of Montbeliard and through the Burgundy vineyards to visit charming Beaune. Finally, we arrive in romantic Paris. (Buffet breakfast)

Day 9 - Paris sightseeing & at leisure - Morning sightseeing with a local guide includes views of the Champs Elysées, Louvre and Opera House, plus a guided visit of Notre Dame Cathedral and the ascent of the Eiffel Tower to the second level, with views over this superbly designed city. The rest of your day is at leisure, perhaps cruise the Seine, view the Impressionist paintings in the Musée d'Orsay or visit Montmartre. You may wish to shop in the boutiques and stores, or just sit in an outdoor café and watch the world go by. This evening, don't miss the excitement and glamour of a Parisian cabaret. (Buffet breakfast)

Day 10 - Paris - USA - 'Au revoir' Paris as we transfer to Charles de Gaulle Airport for our return flight to America. (Buffet breakfast)
You could delay your departure from Paris, if you wanted more time there.

In almost any situation I can think of I would pick Venice over Amsterdam. I love Venice and return often. I have been to Amsterdam twice and it isn't in my "10-year" travel plan. However, your trip would be more manageable if you limit it to London and the Cotswolds, Amsterdam and Paris. I think London and Paris need at least 4 or 5 days each, especially since your father really wants to see Paris. That leaves precious little time for other things and Amsterdam is certainly easier to get to from either London or Paris than is Venice. Will look forward to hearing what you decide.

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. I think I will leave Italy out of it for now. And I think it is a good idea to just narrow it and let them be responsible (hee hee) for the final decision. I think the Trafalgar tour is one that fits our scope and I have decided that I must end or start in Londn so I can add two days for our Cotswold trip. By the by. When I have been in London (used to have an occasional work related trip) I always use a company called Astral Travels. They have incredible small group full days trips into the country that are great. They have small Mercedes touring vans that hold only 12 people. They also do lengthy tours of Ireland, Wales, and Scotland which I would love to try someday.

well if u want to put her off travelling with u ....go to Amsterdam, see the red light district on a Sat nite, go to the tulip gardens out of season, walk all the streets with sewer lines being repaired, get robbed in Schipol [very easy trust me] and top it off with a visit to the charming police station near the Dam [very busy]
then you'll see Venice alone next time and she can go to Dollyworld.
Before u flame me I like Amsterdam but I was robbed, [another post], and some sections are not for the faint of heart!

Going to Amsterdam for third time in October... Yes, in big cities, bad things can happen, but I hope "myst" does not take your version as THE image of Amsterdam.
Agree that March is too early for flowers - April to mid-May is much better, and not as cold.
Had my pocketbook picked on a tram b/c it was hanging outside my coat and I had to hold on to rail w/both hands; tram was very crowded. Only my small coin purse was taken, with 30euro. My credit card was elsewhere, my 'big' money was under my clothes in the moneybelt, with my passport. No harm done - just a blip in my enjoyment.
The Red Light district is what it is, no one should expect anything glamorous out of it. You could actually enjoy a visit to Amsterdam without seeing the RLD, yes it's true!
Focus on the lovely canal houses, the museums and churches, Vondelpark, boat cruise, etc. and enjoy Amsterdam.

Hi Myst,

Travelnut's tour idea is good.

You could also take the chunnel from London to Lille and stop off in Bruges for a night and a day before going on to Amsterdam or Paris.

When you are sitting outside a cafe in Piazza San Marco and the orchestra begins to play you will understand why no one should skip Venice. People who say they "don't like" Venice should be locked in a padded cell, force fed spam and made to watch Jerry Springer and Baywatch reruns.

E-e-e-a-a-s-s-y, there, Beatle! No one's saying they don't like Venice... It's okay... we understand...

I really like the idea of showing your dad a couple of itineraries and letting him pick. Or you could just ask him for 2-3 cities he'd most like to see and pick a tour that includes them. My family said they wanted to see Rome, Pisa, and Venice, so I looked only for tours with those three stops.

We loved Venice but I can see your mother-in-law complaining nonstop. Your options for getting around are either to take the vaporetto--and she'll complain about going up and down the same canal over and over--or walking--and she'll complain about all the walking and all the steps and getting lost. While Piazza San Marco at night with the orchestras is truly magical, it also costs 12+ Euros for a soda or beer--a lot more for fancier stuff--and I can see her complaining about the prices so much that no one will enjoy it.

Since she complains so much about prices and being bored, I'd go for one of those overwhelming all-inclusive 23-countries-in-10-days kind of tours, with most meals included. I definitely wouldn't do anything leisurely or give her a lot of opportunities to complain about menu prices.

Good luck! I feel for you.

Beatle,

>>When you are sitting outside a cafe in Piazza San Marco and the orchestra begins to play you will understand why no one should skip Venice. <<

I was just in Venice about 2 weeks ago and you are right, being in Piazza San Marco, sipping on champagne, listening to the orchestra my first evening I was there, is absolutely Magical, there is no other words for it. I may eventually forget other portions of my 2 week trip, but that memory will never leave me!

I absolutely love Venice and have been there twice (in August when it was hot and crowded but loved it just the same). Having said that ... I would NEVER want to go with a complainer or "light-weight traveler", or someone where I was in the position of being responsible for insuring their good times. Just not worth it!!!

As for Amsterdam, you have to go out of your way to even *find* the Red Light District. Not like that's going to ruin a trip one way or the other. Stick with Vondelpark and Leidseplein districts. Very sweet.