Debby

Hi, <BR> <BR>All you veteran travellers, with talk of two major trips per year. How do you afford that? Am I the only one visiting this site that has to scrape together her pennies and nickels to get to make ONE trip per year, and that one is never a sure thing until the last minute? <BR> <BR>I'm not trying to be nosy about your finances, but if you have a trick that you employ, like a special savings account just for travel, please, please pass the inspiration along to me. <BR> <BR>I'm getting to go overseas for only the second time in my 45 yrs. of life next month. I'd love to make it a yearly event. <BR> <BR>Please share? <BR> <BR>Thanks.

martha

Debby--Can you afford one trip involving anyplace every year? Flying to Europe isn't necessarily more expensive than flying to another coast, provided <BR>1)you're near a major city or can get to one cheaply, 2)you can fly on cheaper days (ye olde mideweeke departures, for example), 3) you don't need to be there in peak season. I spend a lot of time in museums, so I don't care as much as a hiker might about nice weather. I also like England (by which, Tony, I mean England), and I don't see much point in trying to time a trip so I'll get good weather. <BR>There was a thread a few months ago about "What do you give up to be able to afford to travel." It sounds as though most of us are out of the running for House Beautiful and Best-Dressed awards.

martha

Sorry--"Can you afford one trip involving *airplane travel* every year"--I sold my typing skills to pay for my latest trip.

elaine

<BR>Debby, <BR>I'll speak to what I know or can surmise. <BR>I would guess that most people work for a living, with of course variations in salary. <BR>However, aside from the important annual net income there are so many variations in people's circumstances: retired or not; student or not; have children or not; married or not; high cost of living at home or not; mortgages or not; sacrificing other costly items (home renovations, extensive wardrobes,new cars, going out to dinner often) or not. <BR>Other than the occasional millionaire or lottery winner I don't think there's any secret source of extensive travel funds. We all have to make decisions, compromises, on how we spend our "disposable" income, and that assumes there's any left to dispose of.

jim

It would be tough to travel if I had a mortgage and family (i.e. I couldn't afford it). <BR> <BR>I do not earn much, but I also don't spend much. I spend my spare time learning languages for my one European trip a year. I stay in moderately priced hotels and enjoy myself for 2 to 3 weeks a year. <BR> <BR>The rest of the year I work as much as possible and save for my next trip.

Lee

Debby: Just a working stiff like most of us, I bet. <BR> <BR>My wife and I take maybe one trip per year, except if we see an "E-Saver" that we can't resist. We both work and "brown bag it" while colleages lunch out. We have a little house and no mortgage and plan on retiring at 55 to yep, travel. <BR> <BR>I think that the only ones who are truly "loaded" on this board are Al ("Arizona") since he's been everywhere at least twice and Wes Fowler as he has probably authored encyclopedias from memory. <BR> <BR>That leaves us dreamers. <BR>

cheryl

I can't answer for everyone, but I for one am certainly not wealthy. (My husband is an historian working on his Ph.D. and teaching part-time, I am a free-lance classical musician who also has a day job as a research assistant). We are soon taking our third trip to Europe in the past 5 years. After our first european trip (a long awaited treat for our 5th anniversary), we just seemed to get hooked, and we have learned that it is possible to travel relatively inexpensively. It could probably be even cheaper, but we are not interested in hostels and other real budget travel. I like a certain amount of luxury on my budget! Our tips, such as they are, are : <BR> <BR>1. to get the cheapest airfares possible (this can be the biggest savings of all). We have paid as little as $350 round trip to Paris, and $450 to Italy. <BR> <BR>2. Do the research to find comfortable, inexpensive 1-2 star hotels. As long as it is clean, safe, and has a private bath, I'm happy. How much time do you spend in your room, anyway? We try to pay about $100 per night. On our upcoming trip, we are only paying $65 per night. <BR> <BR>3. I do as little advance buying from the States as is possible. For example, to buy our train tickets for Italy from the states would have cost an extra $60. However, I will pay the fees when it will save a lot of time (the Uffizi for example). <BR> <BR>4. We take public transportation instead of expensive taxis when travelling whenever possible. Even with luggage. Since we live in a big city ourselves, this isn't such a big deal to us, it's how we got to the airport from our house in the first place! Many americans (from small towns, I assume) seem nervous about public transportation. <BR> <BR>I'm not a big fan of separate savings accounts, but I'm sure some people do that. We just try to minimize our entertainment expenses on a daily basis where we won't notice it. Many of our friends eat in restaurants 2-3 nights per week. We love to cook, so we eat in almost every night, and save the money for travel. And we pack lunches for work instead of eating out. It's a big savings, and then we don't feel guilty about the money we spend on vacations. I've run on a bit, so I'll stop. I hope even one of these hints was helpful. This site is a great place for budget tips, even if some people don't seem to need them. Good luck.

ilisa

Trust me, my husband and I are far, far from wealthy. We have made the decision that we would rather spend our money on travel, and forego other things. For example, my carpets at home are disgusting and should be replaced, but it just isn't a priority right now. We are always on the lookout for bargains and great package deals; we rarely pay more than $300 per person for airfare.. I am coupon queen, and save money whenever I go shopping. In addition, we have a "trip jar" at home. All spare change goes into it. You'd be surprised at how much accumulates in such a short time. Where there's a will, there's a way.

D. Spiegel

I have been very fortunate to be able to fly with points. Without them, my travels would be greatly curtailed. I also have a full-time and part-time job. My spending habits are frugal, no kids, no major hobbies (other than travel), and I generally stay at low-priced or budget hotels, B&Bs, etc. It's always a trade-off. I could have a beautiful house with beautiful furniture, but I choose instead to have a small condo with very old -- sometimes used -- furniture. Also, most of my clothes are purchased on sale or at discount shops. I do not feel deprieved -- I've been to Europe at least half a dozen times. My life has been enriched. Remember: he who dies with the most toys -- still dies.

FRED

Wealthy ??? <BR> <BR>My wife and I are planning our second trip to Europe this year. Our first trip was in 1995 and when we returned we couldn't wait to go back. We will spend one week in Mitterfels Germany <BR>with many side trips and then on to <BR>Austria (Grundlesee Area)for 2 weeks with side trips to Vienna and Salzburg.When we returned from Germany in 1995, I said How can I afford to go back again ? I work as a Code Official for a City and cannot afford to go yearly. Late 1996 I decided to teach Electrical theory at a local Techinical School two nights a week and put that money aside for special trips.Now I am addicted and plan trips every 2 years. Using the timeshare systems also helps getting great accommadations 2 years in advance.There are ways to make your dreams come true. <BR> <BR>Good Luck

Brian in Atlanta

The name of the game is "discretionary income". It is possible for a couple making $200,000 a year to have less discretionary income than one that makes $100,000. It's the gap between your income and your expenses that's important (that's also the best way to become rich). <BR>It's also priorities. I take the bus to work, wear my dress shirts more than one day, clip coupons and donate anything I don't use to charity (for the tax deduction) so that when I travel, I don't worry about how much it costs. I would much rather travel than own a SUV. <BR> <BR>As an aside, I imagine that most people that are "wealthy" would not be using this forum. Their travel agent would do it for them.

Tony Hughes

Martha ....thanks for that little nod towards me regarding England/Britain. I think everyone who reads this forum knows my feeling on calling Britain England. <BR> <BR>Thanks for highlighting it.

Cheryl Z.

<BR>Debby, no I'm not wealthy - travel is a priority for us though. There was a similar topic discussed last summer/fall on this forum. If you search, may be able to still find it. Lots of interesting input and advice as well as insight into how each of us lives and prioritizes for this habit. We have owned our own business for the last 30 years and it often allows us some flexibility...but it also ties us down for certain times of the year too. Because it's a 7 day a week, 24 hrs a day, 365 days a yr. business, sometimes my only time off is when we leave on a trip. We're also in our 50's and more interested in travel than accumulating more furniture, clothes, things. We always look for deals, and my husband does a lot of research to get the best deal before we take any trip. We are frequent flyer fanatics too and my husband is good at "working the system". I find traveling addictive - and once we started years ago, it just became something we do. I remember thinking our first trip to Europe years ago would be a "once-in-a-lifetime" trip, but on the way home, we'd already started planning our second!!

anne

Although we travel much more now since we have flight privileges through relatives and friends, even before that we planned for trips as often as possible. <BR>In addition to previously posted ideas, mainly those that detail how those of us who are "hooked" on travel live simply otherwise in order to be able to go, a great help to us has been a mileage linked credit card. USAA has one that offers points (1 per$1 spent) that accumulate and can be used for cash bonuses, or an airline ticket (for 25,000 points) on any US based airline. Higher requirements for overseas travel, of course. <BR>Years ago, we began charging everything possible on the card, business expenses where possible as well, paying it off monthly, and accumulating mileage. The annual "membership" is $30. Other banks offer these as well, as do all of the major airlines.

Peter

With over 30 years' experience of "beating the system" (i.e., finding the least expensive deals) to Europe, I have found the two most important tricks to be: travel off season and shop around (yourself -- not through a travel agent), which has become infinitely easier via the Internet. For example, United Airlines just today posted NY-London for $189 (+ tax) round-trip for last-minute travelers (I'm actually considering flying over for the weekend), but you never have to pay more than $300 from the East Coast to northern and western Europe (London, Amsterdam, Brussels, Paris, Frankfurt, etc.) from November through March (except around the holidays), which is when I traditionally travel. (Who wants the summer hordes of tourists anyway?) And hotels are the same: I still insist on 4- or 5-star properties, but they can be found relatively easily for $100-$150 per night in the winter and even at certain times during the summer (when business travelers aren't in town). I think, too, that Americans often suffer from some sort of geographic obstacle. They think of a trip to Europe as a "big deal." True, you have to spend eight hours on the plane (I say: So what?!), but off-season travel to Europe is usually much less expensive and far more exciting and luxurious than those trips to Florida and the Caribbean and wherever else most people take. Good luck! <BR>

Donna

How interesting to post this question on tax day! I am a certified financial planner, helping people manage money in this field for 23 years, and I have over 500 clients from all walks of life and all different incomes. The key is not how much you earn, but how much you keep. <BR> <BR>Earlier in my life, when I had no money and lots of time, I'd go on "economy drives" when I wanted to buy something. Your something in this case is major travel. The economy drive, which becomes a critical lifestyle choice for chronic travelers like us goes like this: stay home and watch movies when all the other young ones are going to the bars to drink and be seen; grocery shop WITH A LIST at Aldi's, or cut coupons; eliminate the cost of the newspaper (you've got the internet); get rid of the extraneous cable TV costs; limit your spending on gifts for friends, relatives, and people you really don't like (send a card), and then meet with a financial planner and see what she can do to cut your taxes and raise the income on your investments; order water to drink when you do go out, instead of a cola or coffee or a mixed drink. <BR> <BR>Tiny little savings grow to good money management habits. <BR> <BR>Depending on your responsibilities (i.e. children, because husband can be by himself two nights a week), another thing is to get a second job, a Tuesday and Thursday night job, and just sock away the savings for the trip. Now, that is BENEATH many people, because they might just miss one of the episodes of whatever on TV. You just have to decide your priorities. AND nothing says you have to stay in the job you are in right now, stay in the apartment you have right now, etc. Look around and see how you can boost your income and reduce your expenses. Then you can spend for the trips. <BR> <BR>I just returned from Paris. My round trip ticket cost $300; and the route was Chicago-Brussels-Paris on Sabena. Sabena has some GREAT deals in the off season, and you should clue into their website or call their marketing/ticketing periodically for good deals. <BR> <BR>We also took a trip to Brussels over Valentine's weekend: 2 tickets, 2 nights in the Brussels Hilton, breakfasts included: $750 total (not $750 each, but total for 2). <BR> <BR>So, keep your eyes open and grab a deal when you see it. <BR> <BR>Once you get your passport stamped, you are never the same person again. My travel buddy and I decided that we really live in Europe because our heart are in Paris and merely go to the States to work the major part of the year. <BR> <BR>Best wishes! By the way, cut up all your credit cards except a Visa or Mcard, and your American Express. Get rid of all those department store cards because they just make your wallet heavier and they are a license to spend. <BR> <BR>

Neal Sanders

Isn't it amazing how a well-worded question can draw 15 responses in three hours? <BR> <BR>Debby, reading the messages above, what you see are a group of dedicated travelers who a) brown bag it, b) clip coupons, c) look for cheap fares, d) travel off-season and shoulder season, e) search out hotel bargains, and f) put travel ahead of such niceties as new carpets. Although no one says it, I'l bet there's not a smoker in the group (100 packs = 1 round trip to Paris). <BR> <BR>Donna says it eloquently: once they stamp your passport, you're never the same person. You find the nickels and dimes (I confess to picking up pennies on the street). <BR> <BR>So, are we wealthy? Absolutely. Rich in memories, wealthy in experience. Loaded with tales of far-off lands.

Maira

No. Just lucky. My husband's job takes him overseas (Europe) often and, on my job (Enviromental Engineer), I have had the opportunity to travel all over the States. I never thought that there'll be the day that $$$ would not be the reason for me not to travel, but time, but that is the case. That's the reason I am the biggest advocate for education you'll ever know. <BR> <BR>But the fact is that flying to Europe and independent travel has become so affordable it is a shame to even think that it can't be done! I recently flew to Germany. Three days before, I had to fly on business to St. Louis. The ticket to St. Louis was more expensive than what I paid to fly to Munich.... <BR> <BR>Another point that I think Elaine alluded to briefly is the choices you make in life. My husband & I live simple lifes, drive very inexpensive cars, etc...so we can afford to go to Europe twice a year. I have never regretted this choice.

Bly

Priorities! - I drive a beat-up 10 year old car, bargain shop and live in a tiny condo in order to travel. I probably make significantly less than most here, but I also have less commitments and can travel when its cheaper. While I do all the planning for my trip, I usually buy my ticket through a travel agent. It shouldn't be any more expensive than buying your ticket direct from the airlines as agents get a 10% commission. If the agent is charging you an extra fee - get another agent. When you have a relationship with an agent, you can decide where you want to go and have them keep an eye out for the best fares. The one thing that ticks agents off the most, is having them price out tickets, itineraries, hotels, etc. than booking direct. (No I'm not a travel agent, but I did work in the travel/rec industry.) Also, get a credit card that you get miles for charging - they don't have a great interest rate and do have annual fees. Use it to buy stuff you'd buy anyways (gas, groceries) and pay it off every month. Then you don't have to worry about the interest rate anyways. Once you're in a mileage program there's many other ways to get miles - long distance carriers, rental cars, hotels, etc. Remember that you have to have the discipline to pay off the card every month or you may be in a worse position than you were to begin with.

KT

I still have my department store credit cards, but I don't use them because one way I save for travel is by staying away from stores as much as possible. Seriously, just walking into a shop is dangerous, because once I'm there I'm exposed to all sorts of things saying "Buy me!" and people spending money like water and making me feel like I should be spending, too, to avoid being the most deprived person on earth. The rest of the time, it doesn't bother me that I don't have expensive clothes or that my small apartment is filled mainly with books and garage-sale furniture, not with china or good rugs. <BR> I agree with those who say it's a matter of priorities. (Within reason of course; obviously below a certain income level or above a certain amount of responsibilities no amount of reprioritizing will work.) I'm far from wealthy, and often people enviously say they can't understand how I can afford to travel. But they wouldn't want to forego their two lattes a day, which add up to about my plane fare, or their occasional weekend getaway to a nearby fancy B&B. I know people who've spent half as much on a three-day weekend in northern California as I've spent on a two-week trip to Europe. <BR>One thing that helps me economize, even though it probably makes me sound like a lunatic, is to think of money in terms of what it will buy me on vacation. Do I really need that sweater for $50, which equals a night in a European budget hotel? Would I rather go out to dinner here for $20 or buy enough bread, cheese, and fruit for several picnic meals in Italy? <BR>