rj007

While I haven't been to Athens yet I would agree with Suze that to characterize a place as a dump leads me to question why you even bother to travel. Presumably, you have done research ahead of time so you have a general idea of what to expect. I have yet to see a travel guide on a major city that says - Don't travel to this city - it's a dump!.

I travel to see and experience this planet. Every trip I have ever taken has been an enjoyable experience that has enriched my life. From hiking in rainforests in Australia to seeing the amazing geological diversity of Iceland to wandering the neighborhoods of London travel has been an endless source of deep satisfaction that will stay with me for the rest of my life.

Mark_va

Say 007,
Its just so lovely that you've been so enriched in your experiences. So much so that you are above such questions from those below your pedestal.
If you took one eye off the mirror and read the question with some comprehension, you'd note Mariannah was quoting an article she read, she herself did not refer to Athens as a "dump." What is the problem with using a free forum like this to raise the issue? Or, should readers concern themselves with the feelings of snobs who surf these sites before posting a question using language they've read elsewhere or even feel most comfortable with themselves?
By the way, as a native New Yorker, I'm the first to admit that certain sections of the city are, indeed, "dumps!"
Mark

milley_5

Giovanna

Did the ring you saw when on the island have a design name? Perhaps you got a leaflet with a picture of the ring from the shop owner?

If so I'd be very happy to try and locate it for you, buy and then mail it to you when I get home.

milley

sheila

There's an article on thsi very topic in Greece magazine this month


http://www.merricksmedia.co.uk/pages...ue7/athens.htm

mikemo

You have seen it before here: quite simply, yes!
M

jor

I was in Athens several years ago. I thought it was a nice city but it had the worst air pollution I have ever experienced. It nearly made me sick. I left early because of the bad air.

rj007

Mark,

If you read my answer with some comprehension nowhere did I refer to Mariannah at all - I was just agreeing with Suze that you shouldn't characterize a place as a dump. Yes, New York as well as London as well as a host of other cities have parts that are dumps. What I was saying is that the entire city is not a dump which is what the article she was referring to states.

As far as your snob comment - that's rich. In London, I stay in a B&B in the suburbs, ride the tube and wear jeans to the theatre. Never ate in a 5*star restaurant and never will. Sorry, I fail the snob fraternity test.

Use language that I have read elswewhere? It's called an education and I consider traveling as a great educational experience. And this forum is to exchange travel information - if you would read some of my previous posts I have complained about the name calling and negative posts on this board.

Mark_va

007,
Re-read your first sentence to Marianne.
Reads like a slap to me.
You may not travel like a snob and may not ultimately be one in attitude either, but with all the "I's" in your writing, there's no question who's at the center.
By the way, I think Detroit and Newark (major cities?), are dumps!

Mark_va

007,
Spats over!
I see you're a London regular. I'm taking my first trip this August. From some of your postings I've read, it seems like a Rick Steve's redux. Valuable information I can use since I don't like breaking the bank either. What do you do at my favorite zoo?
Mark

Joe_in_Silver_Spring

Post-classical Athens is not like Paris, Rome or even London. There was no 18th-19th century rebuilding which created a modern city. But the Acropolis is extraordinary and worth everything else.

rj007

Mark,

You are right - my first sentence should have read why one travels rather than you.

Thank you for taking the time to read my posts and the nice comment on the Zoo. I work in the sanitation dept - work outdoors, get to meet people from all over the world and earn 7 weeks of paid vacation a year (Great for taking time off for Europe!)

You will love London! It really is a great city. If you haven't already, call up the thread entitled What about 100 Great Things to do in London. Plus as I mentioned in some posts it is great to use the budget airlines to explore the rest of Europe. My problem is always getting out of London! I have such a great time there!

Rick is one of several sources that I use to research a trip. I have found some good places to stay in his books - his maps leave a lot to be desired, but there are mapguides that are available.
And I definitely travel light - one suitcase only. I prefer the B&B's -not only cheaper but it really is like staying in someone's home.

I'm glad the spat is over - if you have any more questions about London please feel free to ask and of course, there are several other London regulars here who have some great info.

Cheers,

Bob

Giovanna

Milley: I am truly touched by your kind offer, but unfortunately there were several rings I admired at different stores and no picture or identification # of any. I guess we'll be "forced" to return to Greece to make the purchase (won't that be awful). Thank you so very much for being so kind. You made my day!

mikemo

Mark_ya,
I would certainly agree re: Detroit and Newark.
M

susanteach

Americans want "in your face beauty???"

Whattt???? I think the reason certain architectural styles reappear throughout recorded human history is because "beauty" IS sometimes inspried by what we see around us, OUTSIDE. Don't tell me that when tourists from Europe come to America that they prefer visitng Flint, Michigan over Chicago, or Detroit over Colonial Williamsburg. Besides economic advantages, cities whose priorities have included going "green" and preserving historical or standards in architecture certainly are more successful in the tourist trade. It isn't because the people in Flint aren't beautiful on the inside... gimme a break. There are basics that humanity seems to enjoy living in or visiting: clean water, safe streets, pretty things to look at, places whose very edifices inspire pleasant thoughts...come on! Places with dillapidated building and garbage on the street, with no variety in landscape... they're tragedies. If you're interested in the topic on new-urbanism, I suggest you read  Kunstler:
James Howard Kunstler says Americans are building cities that aren't worth caring about. In his books and lectures, he paints a grim picture of barren lots, ugly architecture, and streetscapes strewn with fast food restaurants and car dealerships. Sure, there's beauty to be found anywhere, but can't we all admit that certain types of landscapes are indeed UGLY? Every newspaper I've picked up this past year has degraded Athens for its Olympic unpreparedness. For goodness sake, cities are able to spend major money on cleaning up at least for appearances, and Athens has done a sh-tty job. Just admit it. It doesn't mean that there aren't still beautiful places to see there.

m_kingdom2

A city is about the people, not the buildings. Paris is a beautiful city but lacks intimacy and warmth - Athens has a wonderful sense of community despite it being so large.

As for their lack of preparation for the Olympics - so what? If I go there I go there for the history, the city, not 2004 Olympics which are over in a month.

susanteach

I believe the first poster wanted to know if Athens was a "dump," as she'd recently read. She also stated an assertion in the article that Athens was Europe's ugliest capital. Let's resume this discussion: are those two statements true?
1) Athens is not a dump.
2) Of all the European capital cities, it probably is the ugliest.
That being said, if you are a student of Greek history or western civilization, spending 1-3 days visiting the ruins wouldn't be a bad idea. With all of the pollution everyone's written about, who knows how long even the ruins have left? For fantastic ancient ruins, I suggest Cyprus.

m_kingdom2

When you have the Acropolis - the most easily recognised symbol of the beginnings of civilisation - visible from virtually everywhere in a city, how can you call it a dump?

Mark_va

M-kingdom whatever-
I agree with you that with the Acropolis, and a few other things-how can Athens be a dump?
I disagree about Paris. Seemed to define intimacy to me. Warmth? Depends if you can speak a little French. I polished off my 3 years of high school French using a couple of cd-roms and I never had a problem with the French or found they lacked "warmth."
Thus, I felt that city as warm and intimate as any other major city. Hey-don't they say us New Yorkers are rude, too? And we know thats not true.
Mark

Iannis

Hello from Athens. I read many negative comments for instance: 'if you are the type visits London's greatest museums you shouldn't better visit Athens, cause Athens is better for its cafeterias, shopping and beaches and a walk in Plaka'. The archaelogical museum of Athens is one of the most important for those who truly love the hellenic past. I never saw many tourists in it. They should be more. The academy, the national library and the university are three replica buildings constructed by Theofilos Hansen around 40 years after the greek revolution. The three buildings are reliable replicas of Clasical Greece of the 5th century BCE. The difference of the neoclasical greek style is that its object is not to give an impression of magnitude and size, such us european neoclasical palaces do, but an impression of harmony with the environment. The same thing happens with Zappeion building (google it) and with the old olympic stadium. Athens does not have palacies such us the Louvre, the Versalies and many other european monsters which you are used to see, so I guess it is normal you are not impressed by the discretion of the athenian one's. I strongly believe that european neoclasicism doesnt touch very much the ancient greek spirit you so much think you represent. Another museumm you could visit is the new acropolis museum and the ruins of course as you always mention, the Agora, the Hadrias arc, zeus temple, ancient roman library etc. The area around Monastriraki, the museum of Cycladic Art, Mueseum of Benaki, National Theater, the Byzantine museum, the national gardens, the numismatic museum. Around the acropolis in Thissio and Plaka, apart from nice cafes and cools bars you so much love there are numerous chapels from the medieval byzantine era and for those who are more aware of the history of Athens, also some mosques from the Ottoman era can be found. Old Athens has not the size of Paris, London or other cities, its beauty is different and I believe only a few notice it. We also have to take into account some historical facts such us the migration from Asia Minor of the year 1922, the interchange of populations of the year 1926 and the radical population's increase of the city after the 2nd world war. Athens is not a dump, your theme is ridiculous.

Iannis

We also have balconies and we put our tomatoes and other green stuff, old greek fashions you know. Having a balcony in London is luxury!!! hahaha