2 days for Barcelona and 2 days for Madrid is still way too rushed. It would be much more realistic to cut London Or Italy or Spain and just visit 2 countries. Or choose between Rome and Venice (droppinig one) or Barcelona and Madrid (dropping one).

I can certainly understand the desire to see it all - my first trips were group tours of the "If this is Tuesday it must be Belgium" variety. The pace is so relentless there is no time to sit down, relax and let the experiences come to you. I was so busy just checking sites off my "list" that I had to see. Even my first few non-tour trips were hectic. I finally realized that I'd be returning and some of the best travel experiences are the ones that are not planned and not the most famous places and sites.

Oh, and night trains. I have a horrible time sleeping on them. The comparison to jetlag is exactly how I feel after an overnight train.

"<i>2 days for Barcelona and 2 days for Madrid is still way too rushed. It would be much more realistic to cut London Or Italy or Spain and just visit 2 countries.</i>"

Yes - of course it is too rushed - but if your dream destinations are London/Venice/Rome/Barcelona/Madrid -- that is at least a way to squeeze them in.

London and Madrid are sort of musts since you are flying in/out there. You could skip London and fly directly on to Italy. But you'd still be arriving in London so that would be a shame IMO.

If you cut Italy you could do London Barcelona Madrid and have time for a day trip out of one or two cities.

It really depends on what you "Must" do. If all five cities are musts, you can manage it. Perfect - no. Doable - yes.

janisj-

Well, in that case if Barcelona and Madrid are both musts then I wouldn't suggest 2 nights each. I'd cut time from London (which you suggested 4 nights) or Rome/Venice (which you suggested 6 nights). Cut a day from each and then you'd have 3 days in Barcelona and 3 in Madrid.

Not ideal or perfect.....As far as "doable" - the original itinerary was doable but non-stop travel...

Cathies: We really don't disagree. The reasons I put the extra night in London were 1) it is HUGE and the major sites are more spread out than any of the other cities, and 2) the first stopover is where the jet lag will bite you and one usually needs an extra day or to to clear the cobwebs.

If it was my trip I'd skip Madrid - but since it is a given there is really no way to omit it. I love Venice and <i>could</i> drop Rome, but for a first timer to Italy Rome is probably a must.

Perfect world - this is a 3.5 to 4 week trip (London a week, Rome a week, Venice 4 days, Barcelona / Madrid split 8-ish days.)

Congratulations on listening to us - not everyone does!

Note that you could take the Eurostar to Paris and a night train on to Venice. You'd leave London at 14:31 and arrive in Venice at 9:34. See http://www.seat61.com/Italy.htm for details. That page also has info on going via Switzerland just for a look at the scenery - you'd overnight in Zurich and reach Venice via Milan early afternoon.

There used to be a good night train from Milan to Barcelona but it doesn't seem to be running any more, so you'd have to fly that leg. See whichbudget.com and skyscaner.ner for cheap flights.

I, too, could skip Rome, but loved Venice. Of course, I could skip Spain, too, in favor of Portugal, but it's not my trip

I am taking all of this wonderful feedback and I created another itinerary. I think I am getting much closer to the mark. Please tell me what you think!
London 6th-jet lag recovery.
London 3 days (7,8,9)
Travel to Venice on 6:00am flight, arrive in Venice on the 10th, Venice Day 1
Venice (10, 11, 12)
13th, travel to Rome
Rome (13, 14, 15)
Travel to Barcelona on 8:30am flight, arrive in Barcelona 16th, Day 1
Barcelona (16th, 17th, 18th)
Travel to Madrid on the 19th early and fly home.

I know this plan has made me sacrifice my time in Madrid but I think it won't be the last time I go there. France just had too much to see so I will have to save that for another trip. Is this still cutting it way to close? Or have I found a realistic game plan?

You guys are pretty incredible! I can't thank you enough!

By the way skyscanner is an amazing tool!

This is quite a bit better! Just be prepared to wake up very, very early for that 6 am flight. Leave time to get to airport, get thru security, etc. Have fun!

Yes, where does the London-Venice flight leave from?

You need to be very careful with night trains.

There are NO night trains between some of thee cities. And some you can get from one to another overnight - but only by chaing trains 2 or 3 times in the middle of hte night.

Also, compartments on these trains tend to sell out early, you will be sharing with strangers (unless you pay for all berths) and they tend to be very expensive. I can;t comment on comfort or if you can sleep on a train - which will have stops - even if you don;t have to change.

IMHO not something I would contemplate unless I knew I could sleep on trains and not pull into a town exhausted and needing a nap before doing/seeing anything.

I think you would find a slower paced trip to be much more fulfilling - and worth the significant time, energy and money you are spending on it.

nyt - the OP is now talking about flying, and has already reduced the itinerary. Perhaps you didn't read her last post?

There is nothing wrong with sharing a couchette or sleeping compartment with strangers. It may not be what you do on North American trains (what few there are) but it is perfectly normal in Europe and Asia.

Much better and totally doable - quick study

But I would be concerned about an 0600 flight out of London (which airport?). Whichever airport - you would have to be at the airport by 0430, 0500 at the latest. And if it is one of the discount carriers out of Gatwick or Stansted even earlier because they have very strict check in requirements. If you are staying in central London it will take about an hour to get any of the airports - so basically - there is no reason to go to bed that night

So - a flight that early might be difficult . . .

Much better - good job, curiously_inspired !

Just a few comments -

As others have noted, it is worth thinking about alternatives to your VERY early departures.

Have you already booked your flight home from Madrid? Personally, I hate to arrive in the city from which I plan to fly home on the day of the flight - there are just too many things than can go wrong! So you might want to consider spending a night in Madrid. (Or maybe you already are planning on that? I'm having trouble tracking that part of your trip.)

And if you are spending a night in Madrid, well, you might want to spend a few days there, instead of one of your other destinations. Just a thought!

I don't know what your priorities are in any of these places, but do note that many places will be closed on at least one day of the week, often Monday and/or part of Sunday. So if there are particular things you want to see, check the opening hours.

And do, please, invest in at least one (if not more) good guide books! You'll learn about things you never even knew to ask!

You have truly improved your plans and should have a great trip, no matter what you decide from this point on. Enjoy!

For a 6am flight out of a London airport you will likely need to pay for a driver as the trains likely won't be running...or allocate time for a night bus. You need to leave time to get through check-in and security, plus about an hour to get to the airport...

We use www.justairports.com for our early morning flights...

Enjoy!

Yeah, just be prepared about those early morning flights. They are doable but not easy. For a six o'clock flight that means they will start boarding at 5:15 so you'll need to be at the airport by 4:30. There are lines at security and check in even at that hour. Hopefully you won't be checking a bag (look at the airlines websites carefully to see weight and size and # of bag restrictions for carry on). If you don't have to check a bag you can usually check in on line and print your boarding pass and therefore skip that line. Some airlines (easyjet) let you print your boarding pass 30 days ahead so you can usually do it at home. But even for the ones that only let you do it 24 hours ahead, most hotels will let you use their printer to print boarding passes, and if not there are kiosks at the airports where you can (sometimes) do this. But still, best to know all this ahead of time.

For transportation to the airport check the various public trans options, but I have in more than one case found I needed to take a taxi. Once from Rome I had a flight that cost €14 but the taxi to the airport from central Rome was €60. Still worth it, just be prepared.

And I agree with the person who said it's risky to arrive in the city you are departing from (Madrid) on the same day. What if the train from Barcelona is late, or if there is a strike that day, etc. Think how much a missed transatlantic flight is gong to cost.

I would cut out a day from Venice and add it to arrive in Madrid the night before your flight, rather than the same day, echoing others who say that is too risky.

Venice is doable in two days, and Madrid is skippable, at least compared to the other cities, IMO, and this would give you a little extra time in Barcelona, where you really could use more time. That is a city where you will not only want to walk, but to take the time to tour inside the amazing Gaudi buildings and other interesting sites!

Ah, yes...the correct word is adapter not converter. My apologies. Should cost you less than 5 bucks.

Agree with cutting one day from Venice. I love Venice and certainly enjoyed my five days there, but you can "get" it more easily than the other cities as long as you make sure you enjoy at least one night righting the vaporettos and enjoying the dancing in St. Mark's square.

I also think that arriving night before for your flight out is essential.

My compliments on your trip editing, by the way. You really have been thinking this out.

Better I suppose, but on a first trip to Europe you'll sacrifice Paris?
And 3 days in Venice is too much.

The flight from London was out of LGW, after talking to you guys I think I will opt out for the 6:00am flight and get a 8:25 flight. I really like the idea of cutting time in Venice for more time in Barcelona, that will give me more wiggle room for Madrid as well. We fly out of Madrid on the 20th and I want to arrive there early on the 19th and if I can and spend the last day enjoying some of the festivities before I depart.

It was so hard to sacrifice Paris, however I think I will be back to travel there, giving Paris 2 days really felt like I shortchanged it, when I can just do 2 days in Venice and really get the experience that I am looking for. It was so very hard to get rid of but what can I say? My heart went to Italy!

Is it better to put that extra day in Barcelona or Rome or even London?

You guys have really opened my eyes and the planning has actually become exciting and fun! I cant thank you enough for all of your help! You guys have truly saved my trip in more ways than one!

Thank you!!!

It looks like OP's new and improved plan has an April 19 Madrid arrival and April 20 departure, so that's OK - arrival is day before the international flight.

Ten Fodorites will have a dozen opinions on what to cut out on a trip like this, but it certainly seems a shame to skip Paris.

My $0.02 is to cut out one of the Italian cities and put Paris back in. Then you've got 4 countries, 4 cites, sweet. I'd shockingly vote for Venice over Rome, just because Venice is so unique (well, aren't they all), but I hate to see Paris drop off.

Have fun with your planning.