Some of our friends are looking for the best hotel to stay in Munich. I'm thinking of recommending the Palais Montgelas or its sister Bayerischer Hof. Can anyone give further details of these sister hotels? Is Montgelas worth the price doubling? Or is there a great alternative to consider that I'm not aware of? It doesn't have to be an "on your face" gleaming hotel, they will also appreciate an understated wonderful small hotel.

We were very disappointed by the Vier Jahreszeiten in 2002. The deluxe rooms looked horrendous and even the junior suite was barely OK especially the sitting room had a plain homey from 1950/1960 feel to it. I've heard that it was recently and partially renovated so my personal experience is probably outdated. Any input? Thanks!

Understated? By that do you mean a small place that offers a good breakfast, a room with some space, comfortable beds, but no plush stuff?

My comfort standards are fairly high, but I have an eye toward value for the euro or the dollar as the case may be.

With that type of criteria in mind, I have a favorite hotel in Munich that I use over and over: The Hotel Astoria in the Schwabing district.

Rooms 201 and 301 (and probably 401) are of above average size for European hotel rooms. Compared to the slit of a room I had at the Kensington Close in London, and a couple of cramped rooms in Swiss hotels, room 301 is of large size.

It has two single beds, standard for most German hotel rooms, a long table, a TV and a small balcony.

The room is on the inner part of the building and away from street noise as much as you can get in an urban environment.

The breakfast at the Astoria is superb. The choice of different food items is huge, including cereals, beverages, cheeses, fruits, and breads.

The front desk staff is fully competent and all of the regulars speak good English. Better yet, the know the area and are most willing to help with directons and suggestons for places to eat. (The hotel has no restaurant, but several are in the area.)

The hotel is near the Gieselastrasse U-Bahn station, but it is within long walking distance of the art museums.
(We walked it last summer on a pleasant day. At 73 I can still hoof it a bit.)

I always use the Astoria when I am in Munich and have no reason to change because I feel I get great value for my money.

I cannot speek of the Palais Montgelas.

I have been inside the Bayerischer Hof, and I thought the aisles and doors to the rooms were disappointingly outdated. I also do not care for the slightly pretentious gold decor prevalent already in the facade of the building - a bit too ostentatious for my taste.
They do have a reasonably nice rooftop wellness area added recently in a design done by Anoushka Hempel, I believe. Possibly due to it having been added, it does feel a bit cramped, I thought, particularly in its locker room and sauna areas.

Most commonly, the Mandarin Oriental is being referred to as the currently best hotel in Munich. It's located steps from the Hofbraeuhaus in the inner city and at around 75 rooms or so is quite small for a Mandarin Oriental. It is housed in a Renaissance building and the lobby decor is quite appealing, too. I particularly like the humourous approch of hanging a way oversized coat and hat to a wall for decor purposes only. The rooms are huge at around 45 sqm (appr. 484 sqf) for an Exclusive.
This used to be the Rafael Hotel Munich. German hotelier, original founder of Regent Hotels and Georg Rafael founded a small chain of super-luxury hotels a while ago and this one was the first in his chain. Despite delivering spotless service and quality he sold out to Mandarin Oriental. He now owns a vineyard by his name in Napa Valley, for what it's worth.

And that, of course, should be &quot;spe<b>a</b>k&quot; in the first line!

I suspect you might be more interested in the Mandarin Oriental given the names you've dropped so far...but tell the friend to be prepared to pay BIG for it.

brookwood:
That's a great value hotel that I was not aware of before. I enjoy Schwabing, our favorite Italian restaurant is just off Leopoldstr. Thanks for your suggestion, I think that is quite a find, I particularly like the fact that the rooms appear to have a nice German personality to them. I'll add Astoria to my list of suggestions for them.

hsv:
Your description of B.Hof confirmed my concerns about that hotel, I'm hoping the Montgelas is more refined. Any Fodorite has been to Montgelas? Our friends travel to Europe only once a year &amp; they tend to splurge on all the grand classic hotels one can think of. However, when we travel together, they also enjoy staying at hotels that we prefer which is more up to date mainstream hotels with understated comfort/service.

Munich is a bit of problem as there is a shortage of great hotels for such a prosperous area. I did think of the Mandarin Oriental which we really liked when they just took over &amp; renovated over a decade ago but wonder what it's like now. We may be biased because we've recently been to a Mandarin Oriental that wasn't kept up at all and the chain just let it slide. Is there any great hidden boutique hotel in greater Munich?

Dukey: Your point is well taken. Fortunately, there are plenty of hidden special negotiated rates on chain hotels even the Ritz &amp; Four Seasons that we can get through certain companies. They often include free upgrades, meals or packages sometimes at half the price.

Some of the rooms at the Astoria are small. Room 201 the one I was in just this past August. The location is on Nicolaistrasse, a short street just off of Leopoldstrasse, the main route through Schwabing. The Englische Garten begins just a short distance away. It is of course a huge park.

From that area to the main train station is about a 15 minute cab ride except at the morning and afternoon rush hours that you would expect in any major city of the West.

I have found that Munich cabs respond very quickly. If you order one for 8:00 it will be there, in my experience.

The airport is easily reached. I have gone by cab to the Nordfriendhof Lufthansa bus stop. The bus makes no scheduled stops from there to the airport. Coming in from the airport, I have asked the driver to radio for a cab and it was there to meet me when the bus arrived.

If you are robust you can wrestle your luggage down the steps of the U-Bahn and get off either at Muenchener Freiheit or Gieselastrasse. Nicolaistrasse where the Astoria is located lies about half way between the two stops. Muenchener Freiheit has an elevator to help you reach street level. Gieselastrasse has an escalator, but I recall that it does not go all the way to the train platform. (Memory on that is dim.)

The front desk staff has 4 charming ladies who work a rotating shift. Fraus Rauecker, Hildebrandt, Quade, and Schmalstieg are all good folks.

Once they know who you are, they will remember you. Little things like handing you the room key when you walk in, being called by name, and little special favors like being able to occupy your room by 10:30 am after a trans Atlantic flight add to the service level.

This past summer, a friend of ours met us at the airport, and drove us to the Astoria. We got there about 10:00.
I had emailed the front desk staff that we might be early if our plane was on schedule. They paid attention to what I had told them and we were in our room shortly thereafter.

No the Astoria is not a 4-star palace, but I would say that for the price the bed comfort is good, the breakfast is bountiful, and the friendliness of the front desk staff cannot be surpassed.

We stayed at the Hotel Opera, which was in a quiet area just a short walk to Marienplatz along Maximilliamstrasse. We found it very comfortable and refined. Nice breakfast, helpful staff, and lovely rooms.

I stayed at The Koenigshof Hotel last time I was in Munich. I loved it! Perfect location on the Stachus Plaza in the heart of Munich. Privately owned. 5-star old world, luxury with excellent service. I stayed in a deluxe double, a beautiful corner room in shaded of yellow and white. Sofa, coffee table, desk, extra chairs, nice size entrance foyer and bath. A plate of fruit and mineral water were waiting for me upon arrival. Some might find it stodgy; I prefer to think of it as refined. I loved it and the rates were amazing -- 250,00 Euros weekdays; 190,00 Euros Weekend (including breakfast).

That's a decent recommendation for half the price of the Mandarin &amp; Kempinski, I had no idea that Koenigshof is that nice inside. If I remember correctly that's the hotel just behind the big Hertie. Thanks for the suggestion.

The hotel looks hideous from the outside from the outside. I walked by it twice before realizing I was in front of it. Also, there is an entrance to the S-Bahn directly in front which takes you straight to the airport. The day I left, I was going to take a car to the airport. The concierge convinced to spend the money on somethng nice instead and to take the train. Someone from the hotel walked me and my bags directly to thr platform. Couldn't have been nicer. The place was so refined that there was no need for faux snobism (is that a word?), if you get my drift.

We really loved the Kempinski at the airport! There was another one also that we stayed at - the Hotel Uhland - a small, family run hotel, which was also very nice (though amenity wise, the Kempinski was amazing!) We got a great deal on the Kempinski when we went, and they also upgraded us to a suite for our honeymoon.

DAX,

If you are looking for a centralized location, then the Mandarin Oriental would be a good alternative to the Bayerischer Hof.

The Hotel Palace is located in Bogenhausen and has some very nice rooms. The website is www:hotel-palace-muenchen.de

I think I should add the Dorint Sofitel Bayerpost to the recommendations around here. While it is not a 5 star plus property, others recommended here aren't either - and there is nothing wrong with that IMHO.

The Dorint Sofitel boasts a rather beautiful modern design behind a classic facade. While a bit dark, I do like the interior a lot. Beds are comfortable. The spa section is an attraction of its own (the pool is particularly interesting). The location adjacent to Central Station is not as nice as being located in the Old Town section around the Mandarin, but it is central and convenient. I have found the service to be welcoming, friendly and helpful - and certainly not highbrowed.
If people care for a bathtub in their rooms, they should call ahead, though - as my rooms always were fitted with a (heavenly) modern rain-shower only. Having stayed at the Arabella Sheraton Grand, too, which currently gets a lot of good reviews and is often considered to be among the top hotels in Munich (as to why remains undicovered to me), I would prefer the Dorint Sofitel hands down anytime.

Thanks everyone,
I think I have a good list for my friend &amp; his wife to choose from. They really like the old world grand hotel with all the 5 star bells &amp; whistles, but they also enjoy a secluded/hidden small 5 star hotel. We are planning to travel with them next year and may stay in the same hotel or not. The Dorint Bayer sounds good for us, but may not be for them. The Mandarin Oriental may be a good compromise indeed if we are to stay in the same hotel. I am hoping that another Fodorite has stayed at the newly refurbished rooms of the Kempinski Vier Jahreseiten and is willing to share the experience.

Dax, Meant to tell you that a deluxe room is a must at The Koenigshof Hotel. There is a very big difference in decor between them and the standard rooms.

I think you still should consider Bayerischer Hof. They renovated the 6th and 7th floor (Americans: 5th and 6th) this summer:
http://www.ganz-muenchen.de/hotel/mu...onialstil.html

There is a new hotel in Schwabing which looks nice, but it's not a luxury hotel:

http://www.ganz-muenchen.de/hotel/mu...roeffnung.html
http://www.hotel-la-maison.de/

mistake:
Americans would consider it as the 7th and 8th floor.

I also had a similar experience at the Vier Jahreszeiten. Our room was dark and dingy. I also didn't like the common areas as they were not very private and constantly crowded with the same people sitting there about 10 hours a day. We stayed there in 2005, and I can almost guarantee that the room was not refurbished.

If I could do it again, my vote would be for the Mandarin Oriental. It is a beautiful hotel and very new, nicely located, but not directly on a huge busy street.

Another vote for the Mandarin-Oriental, clean, spacious, GREAT bathrooms annd showers and a great location.