If you're considering Rail Europe (point to point)
Oct 11th, 2009, 04:52 PM
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If you're considering Rail Europe (point to point)
Although well aware of some warnings about Rail Europe - mostly to the effect that you can often do better booking/buying either online from specific railways or in person once in Europe -- I decided our itinerary was just too tight to leave purchases to last-minute risks of selling-out or getting caught short of time. So I bought the 4 major, long-haul tickets we were going to need from Rail Europe. Yes, it was nice to have the tickets in hand, with whatever the dollar was worth that day locked in.... however:
1. The website went wonky and first erased the order before listing a price, then quoted one price and erased that order, came in later with a lower price, which I booked, only to have the final print out showing the higher prices but with one trip missing. I finally had to call customer service, and the agent's attitude was that it was my computer's problem, not theirs.... but she re-entered everything at the highest price that had appeared. I had no way of documenting the lower price and just chalked it up to timing and web-static.
2. On each one of all four trips, we were placed in seats facing backwards, and in one case they was clearly the worst seats in the car (see below). Now, I <i>understand</i> that RailEurope can't guarantee anything about the placement of the seats, <i>but</i>: Each time I asked at the station if the seats were facing in the direction of travel, the first question I got was "who sold you these tickets?" When I told them, I got a universal knowing shake of the head.
Two of the four times, we were told "you can change if there's a free seat when you get on the train." This turned out to be fine one time and out of the question another time.
For the Eurostar from Paris to London, I asked the check-in agent whether our seats faced forward or not -- he checked, found the seats, seemed very interested in why we'd been booked in the last car of a not-too-full train, and asked who'd sold us the tickets. He very kindly re-reserved seats in another car, going with the direction of travel, clearly marked on the seat-reservation screen.
On the Cisalpino train from Milan to Lausanne, our reserved seats were in the row backing up to the toilet/exit area -- seats with no window (on a train through the Alps?), little legroom, and of course facing backwards -- they almost didn't count as seats. Now, this train and this car were less than half full, and we had purchased our tickets about a month in advance. These were seats that should have been the last to be sold -- if at all. When the conductor saw that we'd changed seats (which he had no problem with, given the emptiness of the train), he looked back at the originally assigned seats, shook his head in that familiar way and again asked where we'd bought the tickets.
FOR THE RECORD: I know that it is often impossible for agents to know which end of the train will be the front on most European trains - and half of the seats will always be facing backwards, since they are not reversible. Statistically, getting "bad" seats four out of four times isn't necessarily remarkable - it's one of the possible combinations. HOWEVER: it is notable that the European train personnel seemed to be tuned in to something that happens when you book through Rail Europe - whether it's under their control or not. The Cisalpino experience was just too pointed to ignore - though I don't know whether it was Trenitalia giving Rail Europe the crummiest seats it could, or what.
So: If it makes a difference to you which way you face on a train (it makes a huge difference to some of us), be prepared to have an unpleasant surprise on your hands, as well as a certain discomfort if you don't like to negotiate for changed seats.
On both counts - price and seating -- I for one wonder just what is going on with Rail Europe vs. Trenitalia, SCNF, and the Eurostar trains -- in the last case, you're more or less stuck with RailEurope if you're buying from the USA.
If you have a way of buying tickets directly from the national rail-lines, you may not have better luck than with RailEurope, but if I'm lucky enough to have a next-time, I will try to find a way around Rail Europe.
1. The website went wonky and first erased the order before listing a price, then quoted one price and erased that order, came in later with a lower price, which I booked, only to have the final print out showing the higher prices but with one trip missing. I finally had to call customer service, and the agent's attitude was that it was my computer's problem, not theirs.... but she re-entered everything at the highest price that had appeared. I had no way of documenting the lower price and just chalked it up to timing and web-static.
2. On each one of all four trips, we were placed in seats facing backwards, and in one case they was clearly the worst seats in the car (see below). Now, I <i>understand</i> that RailEurope can't guarantee anything about the placement of the seats, <i>but</i>: Each time I asked at the station if the seats were facing in the direction of travel, the first question I got was "who sold you these tickets?" When I told them, I got a universal knowing shake of the head.
Two of the four times, we were told "you can change if there's a free seat when you get on the train." This turned out to be fine one time and out of the question another time.
For the Eurostar from Paris to London, I asked the check-in agent whether our seats faced forward or not -- he checked, found the seats, seemed very interested in why we'd been booked in the last car of a not-too-full train, and asked who'd sold us the tickets. He very kindly re-reserved seats in another car, going with the direction of travel, clearly marked on the seat-reservation screen.
On the Cisalpino train from Milan to Lausanne, our reserved seats were in the row backing up to the toilet/exit area -- seats with no window (on a train through the Alps?), little legroom, and of course facing backwards -- they almost didn't count as seats. Now, this train and this car were less than half full, and we had purchased our tickets about a month in advance. These were seats that should have been the last to be sold -- if at all. When the conductor saw that we'd changed seats (which he had no problem with, given the emptiness of the train), he looked back at the originally assigned seats, shook his head in that familiar way and again asked where we'd bought the tickets.
FOR THE RECORD: I know that it is often impossible for agents to know which end of the train will be the front on most European trains - and half of the seats will always be facing backwards, since they are not reversible. Statistically, getting "bad" seats four out of four times isn't necessarily remarkable - it's one of the possible combinations. HOWEVER: it is notable that the European train personnel seemed to be tuned in to something that happens when you book through Rail Europe - whether it's under their control or not. The Cisalpino experience was just too pointed to ignore - though I don't know whether it was Trenitalia giving Rail Europe the crummiest seats it could, or what.
So: If it makes a difference to you which way you face on a train (it makes a huge difference to some of us), be prepared to have an unpleasant surprise on your hands, as well as a certain discomfort if you don't like to negotiate for changed seats.
On both counts - price and seating -- I for one wonder just what is going on with Rail Europe vs. Trenitalia, SCNF, and the Eurostar trains -- in the last case, you're more or less stuck with RailEurope if you're buying from the USA.
If you have a way of buying tickets directly from the national rail-lines, you may not have better luck than with RailEurope, but if I'm lucky enough to have a next-time, I will try to find a way around Rail Europe.
Oct 11th, 2009, 05:33 PM
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If you do a search "Rail Europe" I'm sure that you will read many horror stories. The best place to take your business as far as train travel in Europe is concerned is;
http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/index.html
They will take the time to talk to you and make sure that you get the best deal. I have used them often.
http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/index.html
They will take the time to talk to you and make sure that you get the best deal. I have used them often.
Oct 11th, 2009, 06:21 PM
#3
I think people that use RailEurope are afraid trains will sell out and can't seem to wait until they are in Europe to purchase. I've never had a problem walking up and purchasing minutes before departure even in high season.
As for the Eurostar between London and Paris (I've never been on that train), can't you purchase directly from Eurostar.com?
Some have reported success purchasing with Trenitalia online by using virtual Visa/Paypal.
As for the Eurostar between London and Paris (I've never been on that train), can't you purchase directly from Eurostar.com?
Some have reported success purchasing with Trenitalia online by using virtual Visa/Paypal.
Oct 11th, 2009, 08:26 PM
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Hi Cyanna,
You could have very easily bought your tickets IN ADVANCE from each country's or rail company's website. You may want to do that for your next trip.
You can buy them online, then you get a pdf with the ticket, and you just print it out. Reeeally easy. And usually cheaper than Raileurope's point-point.
However, as with your experience, you often can't tell which way the seats are facing.
s
You could have very easily bought your tickets IN ADVANCE from each country's or rail company's website. You may want to do that for your next trip.
You can buy them online, then you get a pdf with the ticket, and you just print it out. Reeeally easy. And usually cheaper than Raileurope's point-point.
However, as with your experience, you often can't tell which way the seats are facing.
s
Oct 11th, 2009, 11:37 PM
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I think a lot of people have trouble buying from the Trenitalia.com site online, due to US credit card issues apparently, so I can understand the temptation to buy from Rail Europe. However, I think in almost all cases, it is better to buy in the country if you absolutely can't make the country website work.
I also have had a sold out Italian train (Venice to Florence on New Year's Eve 2004 on the Eurostar - I took two slower trains instead, and was maybe 2 hours behind my original plan). But I most likely could have solved that problem by buying the tickets a few days in advance.
I also have had a sold out Italian train (Venice to Florence on New Year's Eve 2004 on the Eurostar - I took two slower trains instead, and was maybe 2 hours behind my original plan). But I most likely could have solved that problem by buying the tickets a few days in advance.
Oct 13th, 2009, 10:23 AM
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HOWEVER: it is notable that the European train personnel seemed to be tuned in to something that happens when you book through Rail Europe - whether it's under their control or not. The Cisalpino experience was just too pointed to ignore - though I don't know whether it was Trenitalia giving Rail Europe the crummiest seats it could, or what.>
Not defending RailEurope necessarily but there computer system is tied into the national rail companies and IME you are just as likely to get poor located seats online unless you can refer to a seating chart. Folks recently said that from tgv.com they got seats with no windows. and Raileurope also has seating charts they could refer to - again service from RailEurope is not great in that they would take time to look at a seating chart - another reason i would do like Haxter1 did and consult someone who uses the RailEurope booking system but has seating charts and can give the personal service RE does not but could. Better often is yes online booking - not always much cheaper however but you can often select your own seat from a chart. Too bad sites like renfe.es (Spain); voyages-sncf.com (France) and trenitalia.com are so so frustrating to use and actually book - legions of complaints about the transaction process being so frustrating. I say unless you get a discount online you are better off biuying tickets as you go along - with a few exceptions like Eurostar London-Paris/Brussels or Thalys - as if you just show up on these you will pay perhaps $100 or more than advance booking due to the their Byzantine airline-like pricing with so many seats at price A, B, C, etc.
Not defending RailEurope necessarily but there computer system is tied into the national rail companies and IME you are just as likely to get poor located seats online unless you can refer to a seating chart. Folks recently said that from tgv.com they got seats with no windows. and Raileurope also has seating charts they could refer to - again service from RailEurope is not great in that they would take time to look at a seating chart - another reason i would do like Haxter1 did and consult someone who uses the RailEurope booking system but has seating charts and can give the personal service RE does not but could. Better often is yes online booking - not always much cheaper however but you can often select your own seat from a chart. Too bad sites like renfe.es (Spain); voyages-sncf.com (France) and trenitalia.com are so so frustrating to use and actually book - legions of complaints about the transaction process being so frustrating. I say unless you get a discount online you are better off biuying tickets as you go along - with a few exceptions like Eurostar London-Paris/Brussels or Thalys - as if you just show up on these you will pay perhaps $100 or more than advance booking due to the their Byzantine airline-like pricing with so many seats at price A, B, C, etc.
Oct 13th, 2009, 11:40 AM
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Cyanna,
Thanks for posting your travail. It is a good lesson for all. Even when reserving on the day of travel your seat can be anywhere. It is important that travelers know that they can change their seat after getting on board, if there are seats open, and that is usually the case. Just move to an unoccupied and unreserved seat and tell the conductor.
Thanks for posting your travail. It is a good lesson for all. Even when reserving on the day of travel your seat can be anywhere. It is important that travelers know that they can change their seat after getting on board, if there are seats open, and that is usually the case. Just move to an unoccupied and unreserved seat and tell the conductor.
Oct 13th, 2009, 12:39 PM
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But spaarne be sure to look at the seat reservation info and see if that empty seat is not reserved down the line.
I actually had a big argument with a Dutch conductor once where i moved to a window seat after the train to Paris (non-Thalys train long ago) left Amsterdam C.S. and i did note that the seat was reserved from Den Hague to Paris - i wanted to sit by the window until Den Hague and the conductor informed me to vacate the seat NOW or he would call the rail police - he was most rude - i know the rules or at least think that i could occupy that seat until Den Hague - he probably thought that i would still be in the seat with the Den hague passenger boarded, etc. I am sure he was wrong and i stayed in the seat without further adu. But look first to see the seat that is empty will be empty for very long IME
I actually had a big argument with a Dutch conductor once where i moved to a window seat after the train to Paris (non-Thalys train long ago) left Amsterdam C.S. and i did note that the seat was reserved from Den Hague to Paris - i wanted to sit by the window until Den Hague and the conductor informed me to vacate the seat NOW or he would call the rail police - he was most rude - i know the rules or at least think that i could occupy that seat until Den Hague - he probably thought that i would still be in the seat with the Den hague passenger boarded, etc. I am sure he was wrong and i stayed in the seat without further adu. But look first to see the seat that is empty will be empty for very long IME
Oct 13th, 2009, 12:51 PM
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YOu can't predict your seats at all on SNCF, so have no way of knowing which direction it is facing. You cannot select, either (direction). Now I noticed that you can pick seats on the idTGV website (with a chart so you can figure it out), but not on the regular one.
I am skeptical about the knowing shaking of the head thing, also, as there are many seats facing backwards oin these trains and I've been sold such tickets by SNCF itself, so I can't imagine why it would be assumed that only people who buy from Raileurope get bad seats.
I am skeptical about the knowing shaking of the head thing, also, as there are many seats facing backwards oin these trains and I've been sold such tickets by SNCF itself, so I can't imagine why it would be assumed that only people who buy from Raileurope get bad seats.
Oct 14th, 2009, 06:54 AM
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so I can't imagine why it would be assumed that only people who buy from Raileurope get bad seats>
perhaps because of the Fodor's mantra that RailEurope is evil and always always a rip-off - say something enough and folks will believe it and then blame all kinds of things on them, rightly or wrongly.
perhaps because of the Fodor's mantra that RailEurope is evil and always always a rip-off - say something enough and folks will believe it and then blame all kinds of things on them, rightly or wrongly.
