StCirq

That's a VERY big plan for someone who has never traveled overseas. I'll echo what michelhuebeli said above - are you really ready for this? Most of us who have ended up taking extended and multiple trips didn't start out with a round-the-world adventure, though I'm sure many have done it.

I have been to India, but other than that no experience yet with Asia or SE Asia, so I won't comment. But I've been all over Europe for 40 years, and live here now, and can tell you how I would approach this as a pracatical matter. It will sound old-fashioned most likely, but it's a start and you can amplify it with all the internet and social media and apps have to offer.

Get yourself a large (biggest you can find) paper map of Europe. Tape it to a wall or a table. Get a bunch of stick pins in various colors. Pick a color for the absolutely must sees - I used to use red, but use what you like.

It's a first trip to Europe. Start where they speak English (do you speak any other languages?) - London. Spend 5 nights there, more if you want to spread out and go to the smaller cities or even the countryside. Then to Ireland (can't help, haven't been there, but I'd expect you'd want at least a week there). OR, fly to Ireland, start there, then move to London and take the Eurostar to Paris. Move to Paris - 5 nights there plus another 5 days (at least) in other parts of France (Bourgogne? Brittany? Normandy? Provence? The Dordogne? Basque country? The Côte d'Azur - possibilities are endless). So let's say at least 10 days in France (and that's really not much, at all). Then on to Italy, which is just a jump from the South of France. You've got Rome (at least 5 days, I would say), Florence (2-3, depending on your interest in Renaissance art), the Lakes, Venice, Ravenna, Trieste....another 10 days absolutely minimum here.

From northern Italy to Switzerland (bring loads of money). Can't help much there, as I've visited many times but do not enjoy the place.

Then I giess on to Greece, but it will depend as noted the time of year. You can easily travel to Turkey from Greece.

Anyway, use different color pins to denote first, second, third, fourth, etc. choices of what you want to visit.

THEN you have to research travel options to keep your costs down. Study www.seat61.com really really assiduously to learn about how best and most cheaply to travel around Europe. In some cases flights may be cheaper, so research that too. But really, really study the national railways of Europe, because each country has its own and the rules about getting cheap tickets in advance are different for each. It would be ever so easy for you to fritter away a couple of thousand dollars because you didn't know how to get cheap train (or airplane) tickets. Another reason why you might want to hold off on taking this trip until you have a thousand spreadsheets of information on actually how to do it.

Check the cheap intra-Europe flights, also - EasyJet, Vueling, Ryanair, etc. For some of your trips they may be cheaper than trains or make more sense with respect to timing (though probably not - trains are always city center to city center and don't involve all the complete BS that even short flights in Europe involve these days).

THEN check average weather reports in places you want to visit. You don't want to end up in places when everything has shut down for the season and you'll be freezing.

LAST, check on accommodations. Use booking.com. I think there is also a well-respected hostel booking site, but I'm not familiar with it. Someone else will be.

When you've got all your pins in your map - essential places, hopeful places, possible places....get out the computer and start googling all of them. Every city and town and village in France has an official website with detailed information about everything from transport to restaurants to accommodations to local events. Use them. Make spreadsheets for your travel plans. Then check transportation between them and make changes as necessary.

You have a whole lot of planning ahead of you.

And fiinally, your budget may seem ample on paper, but do some basic research on what things cost in Europe. I think you'll be OK, but there are always surprises when the bill comes, especially if you don't speak the language.

Sounds like quite an adventure. Good luck!

kerouac

Someone with "no time constraints" (even though the Schengen rules have been pointed out) and a considerable budget should absolutely not consider this to be a "one time only" trip and should therefore plan to cut this up into several more relaxed trips. Otherwise, you are sort of insane and should not come to Europe at all.

In any case, in terms of cultural considerations (and the Schengen rules) at the very least the UK/Ireland part of such a trip could be completely separated from the continental Europe part of the trip to make things more practical.

And at the very least, I hope you know about "open jaw" tickets.

thursdaysd

"Most of us who have ended up taking extended and multiple trips didn't start out with a round-the-world adventure, though I'm sure many have done it."

Speak for yourself. My first long trip was five weeks Beijing to Islamabad with a small group Intrepid tour, two weeks in Bhutan with GeoEx and ten weeks on my own in India traveling by rail, finishing with a couple of weeks in London. I was 54 at the time, so I bet the OP has a lot more energy and stamina than I did.

I can't believe all the negativity I'm reading here. Gap year kids spend a year abroad at 18, and the OP sounds a good bit older than that. I don't hang out on Twitter these days, as it's too much of a time suck, but when I did there were always a few people getting ready to go off on lengthy RTWs.

Maybe the OP should head over to Lonely Planet's thorntree, where there's a whole forum dedicated to just this kind of trip:

https://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntr...e-world-travel

Although it would be a pity to pass up the useful information that <i>could</i> be provided here, like StCirq's recommendation of seat61.

michelhuebeli

thursdaysd is being unnecessarily harsh here.

">I can't believe all the negativity I'm reading here.<"

What negativity? Encouraging a newbie in overseas travel to consider potential pitfalls is not negativity, it is being considerate about giving advice where advice was requested.

russ_in_LA

Great info, StCirq! I'll have to study that seat61.com site. Another one that I like very much is www.rome2rio.com. On this site you can put any two (or more) starting and ending points, in the same country, different countries or different continents, and it will give you estimated time of travel and pricing for plane, ferry, train, bus or independent car. I find it a great tool for weighing costs (in both time and money) and benefits of the various modes of transportation,

To the OP, I love the planning part, so have fun!

russ_in_LA

Below is a link to an example of the Rome2Rio.com site, using some of your "must-see" destinations. Not a complete example, by any means, but it will give you an idea of what you can do with it.

https://www.rome2rio.com/s/Dublin/Lo...konos/Istanbul

Fra_Diavolo

Personally, I don't think travel is very difficult and don't see any problems for you in Europe if you follow suggestions such as those made by travelhorizons. However, you might burn out after a bit, and seeing that you have so much time, might want to plan an extended layover somewhere, just to hang out and relax.

thursdaysd

@michel - the OP asked for help with the itinerary, and can no doubt use help with the planning process, she did not ask for a critique of the concept.

You offered:
"Let me suggest baby steps - take a three-week trip to Europe, mixing up countryside locations with important big cities. Make it easy on yourself by starting where English is spoken - the UK."

And "[the] BIG PLAN should be re-organised into chapters, separated by breaks back home."

kerouac: "should absolutely not consider this to be a "one time only" trip and should therefore plan to cut this up into several more relaxed trips. Otherwise, you are sort of insane and should not come to Europe at all."

Edward suggested she needs at least $150/day, with which I disagree.

Yes, the OP needs to allow for down time. No, she should not abandon the idea and take short vacations instead. Do you realize how condescending you sounded?

michelhuebeli

Enough already - OP did not seem to take offense at the well-meant questions and suggestions, and she could certainly speak for herself, so thursdaysd is beyond the pale.

nytraveler

You really ned to consider weather in planning this. Camping in the middle of winter is really not an option - many campgrounds close in the winter and even if they don;t how are you going to sleep in a tent if it's 40 and raining or 25 and snowing? Have you looked at hostels instead?

You really need to do a lot more research about the parts of the world you want to visit.

And I agree with many that this is a huge undertaking for someone who has never traveled. How do you deal with a new language, a new culture, and foods and transit system and new everything every couple of days?

How do you do when you speak none of the local language? Are you good at coping with that?

How are you at rolling with the punches? Things will go wrong - they have on every trip I have ever been on. If you're prepared you can find a way to cope - if you're already drowning it's a problem.

And frankly your budget is not very high considering the huge number of places you want to go and the cost of just traveling between all of them. Yes, there are discounts and train passes - but those have to be planned for in advance, not on the fly.

I too would start with a much smaller trip, 6 weeks if you want, staying a week in 6 different places, thus allowing for days trips and to spend some days out in the countryside which seems to be a major interest of yours.

And most of all check the weather and the days of the week on which things are closed. You don't want to be doing a city a day and find out you are in the city on the only day many major sights are closed.

CounterClifton

I agree with you, thursdaysd. Extended trips by a first time overseas traveller isn't remotely uncommon, much less insane.

We have no way of knowing if repeated trips, presumably over the course of years... and the added costs incurred with multiple trans-atlantic and trans-pacific round trips.. is better for the OP. But it doesn't matter, as that's not the question anyway and the answers to the imagined question are likely as wrong as they are right, being based on conjuncture and personal tastes as they are.

Thorntree was a good suggestion. They understand the actual question and have experience in that sort of travel. They're not all insane. Seat61 is a great site too (and the owner of the site is a "fast traveller" who makes extended trips and can sometimes be found on Thorntree)

itzavious, now that I see your follow up post, made when I was last posting, I'd say the hostel idea is better than the apartment idea I offered. Chosen well, and particularly if you're a bit gregarious, hostels can be a fun way to meet people and a way to save some money. Some even have private rooms if you get tired of the lack of privacy. Or you can alternate, maybe taking a nicer room or an apartment in places you intend to hang out awhile.

russ_in_LA

I think that travelhorizons came closest to answering the original question, so taking that as a starting point, I would not add any more countries, but perhaps add a few stops along the way, which the OP can eliminate if budget becomes the issue. My itinerary would look something like this:

Ireland - 7 days, fly to
London - 5 days (or more if you add in day trips), then train to
Paris - 5 days (or more if you add in day trips), then train to
Avignon - 5-7 days - I'd rent a car to explore the western Provence area, Aix, Arles, the Luberon, then train from Avignon to
Geneva, Berner Oberland, Lucerne 6 - 10 days (this may be a budget-buster), then train to
Florence - 5 days, with day trip to Siena (better yet, rent a car for a few days to see the smaller towns, like Montalcino, Montepulciano, Pienza, San Gimignano, etc. for 2 or 3 days), train from Florence to
Rome - 5 days, (more if you take a day trip to Assisi or Pompeii), fly to
Athens - 2 days to see Parthenon and museums, fly or ferry to
Mykonos and/or Santorini - 5 days (good place for some down time to recharge), fly to
Istanbul - 4 days (and maybe 3 more days for Cappadocia)

From here I would fly to Bangkok to use as your hub for SE Asia (Myanmar, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos) and end in Japan, before flying home to CA. I'll leave the details of the Asia portion to those who know better than I, but I spent 4 weeks in Japan in the past two years, so I know you could happily spend 2-3 weeks there (read up on Tokyo, Kyoto, Kanazawa, Hakone, Miyajima and Koyasan in Japan-guide.com), and we just spent two weeks in Thailand/Cambodia as well, so I would think at least 4-5 weeks if you add in Myanmar and Laos. Happy planning!

isabel

I would start with numbers. You now know you can only stay 90 days in Schengen, but Ireland and UK are not included in that. If time is really no issue I would do at least a week in Ireland, and 2 or 3 in England/Scotland. So about a month, plus 3 in Schengen is 4 months.

A daily budget of about €150 is kind of middle of the road. That allows for a clean, well located hotel - single room plus 3 meals a day but no 'fine dining' - in fact a lot of picnics and small, un-fancy local restaurants. Big cities like London, Paris, Rome will cost more but if you even them out with smaller towns you could easily average the €150. If you stayed in hostels with shared rooms it can be considerably less. The Scandinavian countries, Switzerland and the UK are more expensive than the rest of Europe so you might want to limit time there. UK is not as bad as Scandinavia and Switzerland. The €150 could include hotel, food, local transportation and a few museums/sites. Travel between locations - train or plane usually will be in addition.

€150 a day times 120 days = €18,000

So - you do actually have constraints since that doesn't include the airfare to get from California and back and you said you want to go to Asia after Europe.

You could do a really nice 4 month trip to Europe and do Asia some other time. Or, you could try to come up with a significantly cheaper budget - but even hostels can cost €30 or more a night, and even doing just picnic foods can cost €20 and you would want to do some sites - those prices will be the same, as will metro tickets, etc.

What ever you do I would urge you to spend at least 3-5 days in major cities (you could spend far longer and not see everything) and also to spend close to half your time in smaller towns. One and two night stays are OK as long as they are interspersed with the 4-5 night stays. On a long trip it's usually more relaxing to have more 'bases' where you stay several days in one place and do day trips.

One itinerary could be:
5 days Western Ireland
1 day Dublin (fly to Edinburgh)
5 days Scotland (Edinburgh plus a rural area)
10 days England (will only cover a fraction of it)
5 days London
5 days Amsterdam with days trips (Delft, Haarlem, etc.)
3 days Belgium (Brugge, Ghent, Antwerpt)
5 days Germany (Bavaria)
5 days Rhine Valley)
4 days Prague
3 days Austria (Vienna or other)
6 days Switzerland (2 Lucerne, 4 Bernese Oberland)
5 days Paris
6 days Provence (2 locations)
4 days Barcelona
8 days Andalucia (Seville, Granada, Cordoba, etc.)
1 day Toledo
1 day Segovia
1 day Madrid (fly to Naples)
8 days Sorrento (day trips Amalfi, Positano, Capri, etc.)
5 days Rome
8 days Tuscany (Florence with day trips to Siena, Pisa, Lucca)
4 days Verona (day trips to Lake Garda, Mantua, etc.
4 days Venice
4 days Dolomites (look like Switzerland but cost less)

Except where noted to fly, the rest could all be done by train.


Whatever you do it sounds like a great adventure

candj83

Hard but fun question! If I were you with your wishlist, in your position of having never traveled to Europe but knowing what I know about my personal travel style (I know, that's not fair, but you are asking what I would do) I'd probably go for something like this...

Two weeks Ireland (two weeks if self driving loop around the entire country - but rental car could get pricey - so, you could look at a tour group like PaddyWagon tours - starting at €559 for 9 days)

One week England, Scotland or even Wales (why not get off the beaten path a little? But keep it short to stretch the dollar further since the pound is more expensive)

Three weeks France (visit Paris and then some of the different areas of France that appeal most to you)

One week Switzerland

Three weeks Italy (start in the north, work your way south, end in Rome)

Three weeks Greece (visiting mainland and islands)

One week Turkey (hot air ballooning in Cappadocia is on my bucket-list).

This accounts for roughly 90 days. And keep in mind you will need downtime on a trip like this just to relax here and there. It gets exhausting being on the move and constantly "doing" things. And don't forget time for pesky things like laundry.

thursdaysd

Getting back to the OP's planning, I would recommend looking for copies of "Europe Through the Back Door" and Rough Guide's "First Time Europe" (and Asia). Possibly Lonely Planet's "Europe on a Shoestring". Also, the current edition of the Thomas Cook Rail Map of Europe, which is invaluable for planning, even if you use cheap flights some of the time. Spending time with some glossy guidebooks will help you figure out where you want to go (DK Eyewitness, for example - just don't use it for logistics).

Also, print off blank calendar pages for every month you expect to be gone, and use those for laying out the trip once you get past the initial stage.

I would give careful thought to just how important Switzerland is to you, as it is expensive. There are beautiful Alpine mountains in France and Austria, too, not to mention the Dolomites in Italy. If you decide to go, avoid the cities and head for the Bernese Oberland.

russ_in_LA has come up with a good starting point, although I would tweak it a bit. There is a lot more to England than London, I'd want some time outside the capital, especially if I were into hiking. Maybe consider one of the long distance paths. I'd also head to Nice from Paris by train, and use it as a base, then you won't need a car in France.

My first trip to Italy I skipped Florence, although I did go to Rome. Consider the lakes and the Dolomites, but don't short change Venice. Depending on how your 90 days are holding up, you could head to Greece overland through the Balkans. When I visited Greece I finished on Kos and took the ferry to Bodrum and flew from there to Istanbul.

Once you get Europe underway, you could come over to the Asia board for that leg.

thursdaysd

"But keep it short to stretch the dollar further since the pound is more expensive"

Thanks to Brexit, and the resulting drop in the pound, the UK is cheaper than it has been in ages. The current exchange rate (courtesy of xe.com) is 1.225 USD to the pound. Interestingly, the euro is down too - 1.044 USD to the euro.

janisj

>>One week England, Scotland or even Wales (why not get off the beaten path a little? But keep it short to stretch the dollar further since the pound is more expensive)<<

>>The UK is cheaper than it has been in ages. The current exchange rate (courtesy of xe.com) is 1.225 USD to the pound. <<

thursdaysd is correct -- the UK is about as cheap as could be imagined right now. candj83 apparently does not understand how foreign exchanges work.

Just because the £ = $1.22 and the € = $1.05 does NOT make the € a better deal. Apples and oranges.

CounterClifton

An excellent resource with a user rating system is hostelworld.com. In more expensive cities like London, you may be able to get you accommodation cost down under $50 US for a dorm bed, which could help a lot.

Look at the airline alliance websites for a round the world ticket, but a good estimating tool for rtw's can be found at airtreks.com (or you can book there too). I was seeing an economy rtw Chicago-Dublin-Zurich-Athens-Istanbul-Bangkok-Singapore-Hong Kong-Beijing-Tokyo-Chicago could be gotten for $2500-$3500 USD plus tax.

So if you could pre-budget $3500 air + $6000 accommodation (120 days @ $100 average per day). Research your visa costs and any advance applications you need to do. But it should still leave you like $10K USD left for rail passes, meals, tours and the other optional things you can control. Asia will require considerably less per day to live on than much of Europe. I think we were spending like $10 per day on food in SE Asia and public transport like locals take is cheap there too.

thursdaysd

Another option, depending on the time of year, is student accommodation. If I visit London in the summer I stay in one of the LSE student dorms (admittedly, I pick one with en suite singles, but there are cheaper options).

Take a look at http://www.universityrooms.com/

Another book worth looking for is Edward Hasbrouck's "Practical Nomad: How to Travel Around the World". It's a bit out of date, but the basic advice should still be sound.

menachem

IF you have a lot of time, you might also want to explore alternatives, especially if you are into hiking. For instance, you might want to walk part of the Camino de Santiago. Or you might want to do a little WWOOF-ing in the country somewhere. Activities such as those might make a welcome break and might enable you to connect to other people, travelers like yourself, but also locals. I think the worst risk you run is to become very lonely while you're traveling.


There are beautiful long distance hiking trails. You could do parts of those. Of course you need to pack differently, or you might buy basic kit at a Decathlon and stash your other luggage.

i think the biggest danger is burning out.