Trying to narrow down travel ideas. How would you suggest to do this trip? Euro rail? Plane, trains? Must begin and end in Madrid Spain.

Since you can't do all of Spain and Italy in 17 days, you should first look at some guidebooks and choose 4 or 5 stops. It will be easier to advise you if we know where you want to go. I assume since you say the trip must end in Madrid that you already have your airline reservations.

My druthers? I'd do Italy for 17 days, or I'd do Spain for 17 days . . . not both.

But if you <i>must</i> 'do both countries, which cities/regions interest you (they are very big countries)

You cannot do both countries in 17 days. You can do 4 cities (4 hotels) with a day trip from one or two.

Yu can pick your choices.

Or tell us your intersts and we can make suggestions.

And it would help to know what time of year and who/how many of you there are.

Consider not back tracking to Madrid, By that I mean consider flying straight out of Madrid after arriving to Italy - you turn Madrid into just a connection to Italy. Then work your way back. Between Italy and Spain I think you should really fly if you want to save what would amount to a day on the ground. There are also some incredibly cheap flights between Barcelona/Madrid and Italy at times. Within Spain, the high speed trains compete favourably with flying, timewise, but you can often really find some spectacular pricing deals on the flights and it might swing the decision.

The rest depends on what you want to see, really. I have been to Italy 4 times and haven't hit Rome yet. We are trying to work our way south but keep getting stuck.

Here is an example of what an itinerary taking in the "biggies" of the two countries could look like;

Arrive in Madrid - fly out to Venice - 3 days
Train to Florence - 2 days
Train to Rome - 3 days
Fly to Barcelona - 3 days
Fly to Seville - 3 days
Train to Madrid - 3 days

It's not exactly something I would try. If as the other said you don't want to spread yourself too thin and have a couple of places in each country you really want to see and could "limit" yourself to, let us know.

Wow! Thanks. Yes, plane tickets are already bought. We need to drop off and pick up someone in madrid, before going home. My daughter, she is going to stay with a friends family in Mar Menor, Murcia...for three weeks. My son really wanted to see Italy. He states, Venice, Rome, Florence. In Spain, barcelona. I believe those are his main spots of interests. I'm doing this trip for my kids, so, it doesn't much matter where I go. The above idea may not be bad. We could skip Seville and maybe train to Malaga and train back to madrid. Would that work? We could do the madrid part on the days prior to travel and after, before flying home. We land in madrid on July 21 morning. We could head out July 22. Just need to be back in madrid by aug 9, maybe 10. Depends when they bring her back to Madrid. Probably 9th, I'm assuming. Thoughts?

I don't exactly know how you propose to fit all of this in - http://goo.gl/maps/W5AJh

You're essentially talking about visiting top to bottom of Spain, plus Italy in two weeks - 6 cities in total, with 1/2 days travelling between most of them (certainly at least the ones you fly to and from), leaving you about two days in each city.

I think you should do four at most, as that reduces your travelling time and maximises your time in certain cities. Rome, for example, needs at least four days, Florence really at least two to do it justice...

Aramis schedule is OK but I would personally recommend dropping southern Spain for the time you have (if you must go to each of Venice, Rome and Florence), or drop one of the Italian cities.

Based on what I think are your intentions, and if you are going to spend at least the first night in Madrid, you might as well stay there and do the touring all at once, returning only the night before you depart (assuming that is the 10th).

You can certainly substitute Malaga for Seville - Seville is a little closer and easier to reach from Madrid so there would be less travel time and there also are a few more options for close by day trips. If the coast is what you want to see then Malaga it is.

21 Arrive Madrid
22 Madrid
23 Madrid
24 Fly to Venice
25 Venice
26 Venice
27 Train to Florence
28 Florence
29 Florence (maybe Rome instead, to give it 4 days?)
30 Train to Rome
01 Rome
02 Rome
03 Fly to Barcelona
04 Barcelona
05 Barcelona
06 Fly to Seville/Malaga
07 Seville/Malaga
08 Seville/Malaga
09 Train to Madrid - pick up daughter - final night dinner and airport hotel (?)
10 Depart Madrid (??)

This is a jammed trip. With the time it takes to travel from city to city, you will have precious little time to see the cities. I would eliminate one place to give the others enough time. Though I love Seville and Malaga is fine, I tould eliminate those for this trip. If you want to go anyway, I would definitely choose Seville orver Malaga - you can see the sea while in Barcelona.

It's very, very hot in southern Spain in the summer -- like 100+ degrees. Good reason to cut that from your crowded trip.

You could add in something of northern Spain. San Sebastian is popular these days.

Venice and Florence will be dense with daytrippers in high summer. But at least you'll be there in the mornings and evenings.

Just as soon as your itinerary is fixed, I'd start looking at hotels. Give us a budget and we can make suggestions. You're doing a lot of traveling in the busiest time of the year; you don't want to waste time looking around for some place to stay.

Hi G,

Fly into Madrid 4 nights
Daytrips from Madrid: Toledo and Segovia

Train to Salamanca - 2 nights
Train to Burgos - 1 night
Train to San Sebastian - 4 nights
Train to Madrid - 3 nights

I'm liking the one that includes Italy since my son really wants to go there. Question: couldn't we take a train to Seville from Barcelona? Would that be easier? I've heard that waiting for an airplane can be just as long as taking a train..? I guess we could skip Malaga, if that makes sense? Would we want to try and fit monticonti in? Not sure if I spelled th right. But, I do like all ideas. But, the one by aramis would make my son happy. Thoughts? Us, next would come transportation thoughts and hotels. I don't need fancy, just safe and assessable to where we want to be ( with easy transportation, visiting...)...

Thanks everyone!!!

The average high in Seville in July and August is 95. The record is 111 and 113 respectively. Are you really OK with this?

The trip suggested by Aramis is mostly travel, little time to enjoy the destinations. I would drop Seville/Malaga for several reasons. It is very hot at the time you are traveling and including it forces you to miss time other places.

Add a day each to Madrid, Venice and Florence.

Gendy;

Sure you can take the train to Seville from Barcelona - the fastest one is 5 hours and the average high speed trip takes 5:30. The fastest train to Malaga is about 5:15 and the average high speed one just under 6 hours.

The flight time to either Seville or Malaga is 1:35. Add 3.5 hours to account for travel to/from and airport time and you might be door to door in 5 hours for either. The average all in train time to Seville would be about 6.5 hours and to Malaga, about 7 hours, allowing for 30 minutes at either end.

Right now, non-stop one-way airfare to Malaga in late July is about 47 Euros ($64) and to Seville about 97 ($129) Euros. I don't think you will be likely to get those prices on the high speed train so the decision will probably come down to a price/time analysis.

If true, please tell people that you;

- know it takes time to travel been places (including packing and checking in/out, of course)
- costs more to get to the airport than the train station
- is hot in Andalucia in the summer

or they will keep suggesting you change what you want to do because of things that concern them.

It seems, given the time travel time and temperature concerns expressed that folks think you might enjoy yourself more in Copenhagen, or perhaps Edinburgh, for all 17 days.

Confused: are you saying that plane would be cheaper or train? So much good advice, but now I'm confused. I know that my son wants to see Italy and Barcelona. I've been told that I would have time to see certain parts of France. Can people please give me sample itineraries, trains included or plane, from madrid back to madrid from July 20 to aug 11 ( just need to be back in madrid by aug 8 or 9). Don't want to spend a fortune, please. Thanks all!! My daughter will be in area near murcia, and Im aware that we may not get to her until she is brought to us in Madrid. Thoughts?

Yes, airfare can be cheaper than rail fare in certain circumstances. European regional and discount carriers are tremendously competitive. You never know until you check your dates and the route.

Sure you can get to France pretty quickly from Barcelona but are you considering it just because someone said you could? Your desire to see Spain and Italy in 17 days is aggressive. It is only going to get more so if you now want to add in France because it's close.

It does appear you are travel confused - that state of infinite options where whatever somebody says you could do is something you wonder if you should do. It might be time to step back and talk over with your family what you really want to see, how long you want to spend in each place and how much time and money you want to spend traveling between destinations. Then commit and start planning.

We will still be here.