How to do Wengen "NOT" like an American tourist?
Jun 10th, 2009, 08:34 PM
#83
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johnb---I was just expanding on travelgourment's tip. Coop and Migros are the two major grocery chains in Switzerland. Migros does not sell alcohol---Kein Wein, Kein Bier, usw. So if you want to buy wine to go with your dinner, you shop at Coop.
Jun 10th, 2009, 09:11 PM
#84
enzian -
I didn't realize that...we looked for beer and wine at the Zurich airport Migros...I thought maybe it had something to do with them not wanting to compete with the restaurants in the airport...I had no idea they didn't sell it at all. I noticed Migros also doesn'tt sell any chocolate other than their own brand Frey.
I didn't realize that...we looked for beer and wine at the Zurich airport Migros...I thought maybe it had something to do with them not wanting to compete with the restaurants in the airport...I had no idea they didn't sell it at all. I noticed Migros also doesn'tt sell any chocolate other than their own brand Frey.
Jun 10th, 2009, 10:33 PM
#85
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<i>not sure what this means..is it a type of chocolate or maker?</i>
As noted, they are grocery store chains. And, according to my friends, it is about a bit more than the alcohol, although Migros famously doesn't sell it.
The bigger issue is that the Migros founder was very progressive and had some political and social ambitions too. According to my friends, shopping at Migros could get you labeled as subscribing to those political beliefs by the old ladies in the neighborhood. People would avoid Migros (or consciously shop there) because of the political associations. My guess is that few if anybody cares anymore, but most people I know remember this from their childhood.
To put this in context, remember that Switzerland can be a very, very conservative place. Women didn't get the right to vote until 1971 at the national level, and didn't get the right to vote at the cantonal level in Appenzell until 1989. Even today, they close the schools for lunch in a barely-concealed attempt to discourage women from working. And the most popular party in Switzerland is an openly racist, right-wing party. It is getting better, but I suspect it can be a lonely place for a progressive, particularly in the more conservative areas - this isn't Scandinavia.
As noted, they are grocery store chains. And, according to my friends, it is about a bit more than the alcohol, although Migros famously doesn't sell it.
The bigger issue is that the Migros founder was very progressive and had some political and social ambitions too. According to my friends, shopping at Migros could get you labeled as subscribing to those political beliefs by the old ladies in the neighborhood. People would avoid Migros (or consciously shop there) because of the political associations. My guess is that few if anybody cares anymore, but most people I know remember this from their childhood.
To put this in context, remember that Switzerland can be a very, very conservative place. Women didn't get the right to vote until 1971 at the national level, and didn't get the right to vote at the cantonal level in Appenzell until 1989. Even today, they close the schools for lunch in a barely-concealed attempt to discourage women from working. And the most popular party in Switzerland is an openly racist, right-wing party. It is getting better, but I suspect it can be a lonely place for a progressive, particularly in the more conservative areas - this isn't Scandinavia.
Jun 11th, 2009, 12:50 AM
#86
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I don't think that generalizations like that are justified.
Tourists often travel to rural areas in Switzerland, and to the major cities in Scandinavia. Comparing the values and standards of a conservative farmer in the Berner Oberland with the lifestyle of a hip web-designer in Stockholm makes no sense, though, IMO.
And nowadays, I would not take Sweden or Denmark as shining examples of an open-minded society - especially not since the latter implemented their most-restrictive immigration policy, in a government coalition with a ring-wing party.
Tourists often travel to rural areas in Switzerland, and to the major cities in Scandinavia. Comparing the values and standards of a conservative farmer in the Berner Oberland with the lifestyle of a hip web-designer in Stockholm makes no sense, though, IMO.
And nowadays, I would not take Sweden or Denmark as shining examples of an open-minded society - especially not since the latter implemented their most-restrictive immigration policy, in a government coalition with a ring-wing party.
Jun 11th, 2009, 01:12 AM
#87
"Even today, they close the schools for lunch in a barely-concealed attempt to discourage women from working."
Ask a Swiss and he'll say family values are more important than women working. It's indeed hard for a mother to find work that allows her to be home at lunch and Wednesday afternoons (when school is out.)
The Swiss don't like the idea of kids being continuously home alone (latch key kids) but the local government in most areas does not feel it is necessary to offer school lunches. Things are changing but very, very, very slowly.
Ask a Swiss and he'll say family values are more important than women working. It's indeed hard for a mother to find work that allows her to be home at lunch and Wednesday afternoons (when school is out.)
The Swiss don't like the idea of kids being continuously home alone (latch key kids) but the local government in most areas does not feel it is necessary to offer school lunches. Things are changing but very, very, very slowly.
Jun 11th, 2009, 01:15 AM
#88
Migros - Coop: Migros, in the beginning stages, did have some very socialistic ideas. They have changed since then and now even offer brand products. Many of the "Migros" products are just brand products under the Migros name.
The idea of not selling alcohol goes back to the idea of Mr. Duttweiler, the founder of Migros. However, Migros now owns Denner, which makes most of its profits from selling alcohol.
There's a way to get around everything.
The idea of not selling alcohol goes back to the idea of Mr. Duttweiler, the founder of Migros. However, Migros now owns Denner, which makes most of its profits from selling alcohol.
There's a way to get around everything.
Jun 11th, 2009, 01:22 AM
#89
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There are no generalizations here, just pointing out that some Swiss - better than 20% judging by the numbers that voted for the SVP - can be very conservative, if not flat-out reactionary. Certainly, people are free to have differing beliefs, but there is also nothing wrong with pointing out that the SVP is openly racist and xenophobic. They are only slightly less open about their sexism, but there is definitely a strong undercurrent of "women belong in the kitchen" to their social policies. Given that this is the most popular party in Switzerland, I think it is more than safe to say that Switzerland has at least a sizable minority that are pretty darn conservative.
Jun 11th, 2009, 02:59 AM
#91
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gourmet.. I think I did not make my point:
I did not say that there was no xenophobia in CH, and that the SVP is not a very conservative party (and nothing I would/could ever vote for if I could), BUT: While Switzerland has one of if not THE highest percentage of foreigners in the country, Denmark simply shut the doors. For me that is simply another shade of xenophobia, but an "elegant" solution to make the country appear liberal and understanding towards the much fewer foreigners. So when the (conservative) Swiss are thinking about to or further limit immigration, it's something the (liberal?) Danes have done already since 2001 or so - if I remember correctly.
I did not say that there was no xenophobia in CH, and that the SVP is not a very conservative party (and nothing I would/could ever vote for if I could), BUT: While Switzerland has one of if not THE highest percentage of foreigners in the country, Denmark simply shut the doors. For me that is simply another shade of xenophobia, but an "elegant" solution to make the country appear liberal and understanding towards the much fewer foreigners. So when the (conservative) Swiss are thinking about to or further limit immigration, it's something the (liberal?) Danes have done already since 2001 or so - if I remember correctly.
