I've been reading the queries and responses in Fodor's forum for over three months now. On occasion, I've responded if I felt I had the knowledge or expertise to offer meaningful advice. I've been fascinated by the character of some of the questions asked, from the naïve (How many languages in Switzerland?), to the worried (What's the cheapest, fastest way from Victoria Station to Kings' Cross?), to the sensitive (What kind of dress should my 12 year old wear?) to the unplanned (I'm flying to [somewhere] tomorrow, what should I see?) to the intelligent, concerned, relevant questions that are too numerous to mention. I get chagrined when I read of the traveler who must have a hotel with nearby restaurants in Kensington; I know they'll never explore east London's ethnic neighborhoods or walk the Regent's canal towpath. I marvel over the knowledgeable responses of seasoned independent travelers willing to share their knowledge and experience. That prompts this posting. How do you plan your European trips? How do you decide where to go and, most importantly, why? When do you start planning? What resources do you rely upon? What guide books, maps, national or regional tourist offices, internet or other resources do you refer to? Do you rely on travel agents or tour companies? I would think many readers of the forum who contemplate European travel would benefit from your comments. I would hope this query might prompt a string of useful responses, untainted by some of the unfortunate and overly sensitive diatribes that appear elsewhere.

I have been interested in Europe for a long time, and world travel in general, so I will say that I have long known many of the places that I want to go. However, by watching television shows by Rick Steves and reading travel books as recreation (weird to many I know), I learn of other places, such as Gimmelwald, Switzerland and the Cinque Terre, Italy. I also like looking at photo books of Europe at the library and bookstores. I like to go to as many different places as possible before returning to favorites. For example, I love Paris most of all, but my next trips will be to Italy, Australia, and Great Britain, places that I have not yet visited (and places that are widely different from one another). <BR> <BR>For hotels, I generally rely on guide books. I like inexpensive hotels that put me right in the heart of things and that save my money for other things. I am never in the hotel anyway. I love Lonely Planet , Let's Go, and Rick Steves for that purpose. For sight-seeing many are good, but Access is excellent for detail. I plan constantly from the time I decide to go until the time I arrive. I make lists of possible itenararies, adjusting almost daily until it is just right. I use the internet for much of the detail, such as train schedules (I love the web site that Deutschebahn has). I make most of the reservations myself by phone or mail, but have used travel agents for others (I almost always tell them what hotel I want however - usually not in their system so they fax a request for a fee). <BR> <BR>In addition, I study the language with tapes and books, read about the history of the country and the region, and read novels that inspire me such as "The Hunchback of Notre-Dame" and "A Tale of Two Cities" before going to Paris. <BR> <BR>I am also an amateur photographer, so I plan how much film I will need for each part of the trip (usually a good estimate, but I make sure to have extra). When I return, I put together photo albums (sometimes as many as five for one three-week trip) and label all of the pictures in detail. <BR>

Hello Wes, I have enjoyed your many contributions in <BR>the past, and this time you have hit a hot button. <BR>I have planned 10 European adventures for myself in <BR>the past 10 years, and another 35 to 40 for others. <BR>It takes me 6 months of homework to do justice to my <BR>own trips, but that is part of the fun--a major part <BR>I start with a good map and the Michelin green book <BR>for the gross planning and general itinerary. Then,I <BR>consult my travel library and about a dozen sites on <BR>the web devoted to Europe travel. I also contact the <BR>Tourist Office for the country and get their goodies <BR>and peruse bulletin boards like this one. The anxiety that many people feel about independent travel is in direct proportion to a lack of planning <BR>In-depth home work gives you a base of knowledge that minimizes apprehension, and allows to truly enjoy independent travel. I hope this helps. Contact <BR>me directly if you want more specifics. <BR>

What a remarkable question to pose. May it result in a hundred useful responses. Here is my own. <BR> <BR>My wife and I have been traveling the world for nearly 25 years; sometimes as a vacation tacked onto one of my business trips, but more often as a discrete event. We start with a lengthy list of places we want to visit or re-visit because there are one or more things there we want to see or do. Believe me, the hardest part of our vacation planning is choosing a destination. We generally go to Europe in the spring or fall, but never in the summer months (too many crowds, high airfares, Europeans are on vacation). This fall, for example, we're going to Amsterdam and Paris. <BR> <BR>We do not use travel agents. Travel agents invariably do what is easiest, or what they know; and what they know are tours and hotels that have comped their stays. It is an irrational economic decision for a travel agent to spend five hours researching and booking a small inn in Provence that does not pay commissions. <BR> <BR>We start with airfare. A month ago, we booked and paid for two, heavily discounted economy class tickets, then used 80,000 frequent flier miles to obtain round-trip upgrades into business class. Here's our rationale: for 100,000 miles, we can get two "free" economy class tickets with a value of $1300, sit in Row 52 with our knees up under our chins all night, and arrive at our destination exhausted. Or, we can pay a total of $1300 for those economy class tickets, use 80,000 miles and upgrade them to business class tickets with a value of $9300. The business class seats ensure a reasonable night's sleep on the way over, and a very convivial trip on the way back. <BR> <BR>We have envelopes full of clippings from places we want to see. Most are culled from the New York Times, which has the best travel section of any newspaper in the US. Gourmet also seems to supply its share of clips. That gives us a starting point to make an itinerary. <BR> <BR>Our next purchases are a map and a guidebook. Falk's city maps are best, Michelin is best for driving. Michelin's yellow, highly detailed maps are an absolute "must" if you're touring the countryside and want to get off of the beaten path (we now have dozens of them). As to guidebooks, we have a wall full of Fodors Guides, but we've also come to know and trust the Cadogan series. Guidebooks, of course, are individual things and people's tastes evolve. A "Lonely Planet" guide works at one point in your life; perhaps not at another. There are also regional variations: we would not go to France without a current Gault-Millau. And, for any serious student of art, architecture, or history, the Blue Guides are indispensable. <BR> <BR>We choose our hotel based on proximity to what we want to see. There is undeniable luxury in being able to go back to your room to drop off a package, drop off or add a sweater, or just to put your feet up. We use all available sources to decide which hotel to stay in if we do not have a favorite. We book directly, usually by fax; and have seldom been disappointed either with our rate of our room. We'll probably make our Amsterdam and Paris reservations next month. <BR> <BR>The Internet has become a tool of choice for resolving itinerary issues. I first became acquainted with the Fodors' message board a year ago last spring while planning a trip to Greece, and could not find a particular ferry schedule. I got exactly the answer I needed from someone who had been on the same ferry a few months earlier. When it came time to plan our trip to Egypt, we used Fodors' board to hook up with three travelers who had recently been on a comparable itinerary. We took their advice and were not disappointed. <BR> <BR>Finally, we always buy a Berlitz tape and phrase book, and listen to them for weeks before we leave. Yes, English is widely spoken in Europe, but the ability to carry on simple transactions with a two-hundred-word vocabulary is a liberating experience. <BR>

An excellent place to get travel info is the national tourist board for the country you want to travel to. Most are in NYC with offices in other cities, too. You can find a list in most general travel guides or call information. I have called the tourist board for almost every European country and have gotten invaluable information. They send you guidebooks, complete listings of hotels, bed & breakfasts, inns, and/or youth hostels, lists of current special events, magazines, brochures, country maps, regional maps, and more!! Some of the best info I have received is from Greece. The info they send you is also a jumping off point for finding other info, web sites, organizations, etc. Many of the tourist boards also have websites. <BR> <BR>Also, I check all my favorite travel guides (Let's Go, Rick Steves, and Lonely Planet) for more places to find info. <BR> <BR>Starting with these resources will lead you to endless information.

How do I plan a trip? <BR> <BR>First I either (or both) the Blue Guide or the Insight Guide, and read cover-to-cover. This is the best way for a traveler to get a sense of history/ culture of an area, and understand WHY a sight is important. <BR> <BR>Then I get other travel books, noting possible attractions. Michelin, Baedecker, Frommers, Fodors, Let's Go, Lonely Planet, Moon -- I've used them all for one place or another. The important thing is to use MORE than ONE. I have found on innumerable trips that one guidebook will rave about a sight that another barely mentions; you need to get as many perspectives as you can. <BR> <BR>If at all possible, I try to visit during a down period in tourist traffic. To my good fortune, at many places this is May or June, when (in the North Hemisphere at least) the days are longest. This helps me to enjoy the sights more, find lodging more easily, and have maximize daylight to travel and/or visit. <BR> <BR>Based on what (1) I like to visit, (2) the books say about a place, and (3) how much trouble it would be to get to a place; I sort out attractions into "must see", "worth a side-trip," "if I have extra time," and "don't bother." <BR> <BR>Then I group attractions geographically, and see if there are areas with more than their share of "must sees." If so, I try to concentrate my trip in that area, with hope for trips to the others. <BR> <BR>Starting with my "center point," I take the most up to-date guidebook and make a list of days and times I would be able to visit the attractions. Thus, an outdoor statue might be listed "Sunday to Saturday, dawn to dusk." <BR> <BR>From there I make a tentative day-to-day itinerary, making a rough estimate of the amount of time to see and travel between each site.I try to group them geographically,so as to minimize travel time between them. If that means seeing unrelated sites on one day and related sites several days apart, so be it. If one site is best (or only) seen on a certain day (late opening hours, for instance), I try to see all the things near that specific site on that day. I also try to see the "dawn-to-dusk" places before and after the places with opening hours, which means occasional back- tracking. It usually takes quite a few hours to mix and match all the above criteria so to maximize the amount and enjoyment of attractions; but ALWAYS saves many more hours when I'm there and can barely spare even a minute to make certain I'm walking down the right street! <BR> <BR>With this initial daily intinerary, I then check which sites around my "center" I can visit. I use the same algorithym I used above,making an itinerary for the days after I'm done with the center. <BR> <BR>This always causes me to eliminate places I would love to visit. I just say, "That forces me to return for another visit," and look forward to doing so! <BR> <BR>I then pick a place to stay in the center, and make reservations there (as best I can). By traveling in the off-season, I have always found good lodging at places where I wasn't able to do so before leaving. <BR> <BR>I check the Internet just before leaving for any last-minute new attractions, closings, or festivals that may interest me. I do the same at the Tourist Bureau when I get there. <BR> <BR>This planning (which usually starts a few days after I return from a trip!) is difficult, and probably not for right-brained persons, but it has allowed me to maximize the attractions I get to see!

I too enjoy reading and learning from the post. My wife and I started our annual trips to the UK 14 years ago and find that the planning is nearly as much fun as going. However, for the past few trips we have only made the necessary arrangments such as the flight and first two nights lodging. We now find it more fun to decide each day where we are off to. It's fun to arrive at the train station and then make the decision where we are going. If we like the town we find ourselves at we will stay, if it is of no interest, we move on. Have seen much of Wales, Scotland and England this way.

I love to travel! I can remember back in high school making list of places I wanted to visit someday. One of my girlfriends recently said "you're doing exactly what you dreamed about in high school." My list consisted of countries in Europe. I grew up living in many different places to include Okinawa and Japan (born in Spain), so Europe was on my mind. <BR> <BR>I plan about 6 months ahead of time and take a vacation from 2-3 weeks, always in one country as there is so much to see in each country. This way I don't spread myself so thin and I don't have to worry about the different currencies. <BR> <BR>I usually travel between April 24th and May 31st. I think this is a good time of year to travel to Europe as it isn't as crowded as June-September and the weather is pretty nice (usually a light jacket in the evenings). It's also just at the starting point of high season, so I'm lucky sometimes in better hotel prices. <BR> <BR>I buy 2-3 three travel books. The first one is Insight Guides which gives me great information on the country I've chosen. It discusses the history and people, and discusses each area of that country. It's not like a true travel guide book like Fodor's or Frommer's, (it does have a small portion in the back providing travel tips), but it's a valuable book to get a good background on the country. Great photos too! My other books are usually Frommer's. In addition, I go to the library to pick up the Fodor's and Rick Steves travel books for additional information on hotels and restaurants. I also buy a pocket sized language book (Berlitz) and if language classes are available at the local college, I'll sign up. It's usually a 10 week course in basic communication/travel communication. I always make an effort to learn the basic phrases. It helps me to get around and get what I need and I believe my efforts are appreciated. <BR> <BR>I write to the tourist office's and request hotel, restaurant, transportation, maps, and other information that will help me to decide my routes. <BR> <BR>I also use the internet to access train information and additional hotel/restaurant information. <BR> <BR>I always choose pensiones to stay in rather than "American-style" hotels. I agree when Rick Steves writes, "A tight budget forces you to travel close to the ground, meeting and communicating with the people...simply enjoy the local-style alternatives to expensive hotels and restaurants." I do not travel on a very tight budget. I budget but still sleep comforatably and eat well (hotels with complete bathroom in Italy this past May averaged $85 and complete dinners with wine averaged $40 for 2). <BR> <BR>I send letters or I'll email the pensiones. Once I have chosen where I want to stay, I give them my credit card number to hold the room. AND I GIVE ENOUGH NOTICE IF I HAVE TO CANCEL. <BR> <BR>I always travel in Europe by train or bus. I get train information from Rail Europe which I can then determine whether to get point-to-point tickets or a flexi-pass. For bus information, the travel books have some information, but I'll visit the tourist office or the bus station and get a detailed brochure. Usually I'll take a bus for day trips and the train for longer trips. <BR> <BR>In reading about each city I want to visit and what it has to offer, I can determine how many days I want to spend in each place, giving myself enough time to travel between cities. And I'll read about other locations near by to take day trips (which means less hotels to book). <BR> <BR>I also read about opening hours of museums, exhibits, etc. so that I don't miss any important places to visit. <BR> <BR>Then I count the days until my vacation and live it up in Europe! I take tons of film and photograph away as they are my best memories. <BR> <BR>Thanks Wes for the great question!

I've planned many pleasure and business trips for myself and my wife over the past 50 years. Once we decide where we're going, I do all research possible using the web, brochures, advice of acquaintances, etc. We work out a very detailed itinerary including what seem to be the best prices available. Then I take the whole thing to my trusty American Express travel agent and let her put it all together. I've found that a good travel agent can get better hotel and air prices and keep us from making mistakes like visiting places during events which disrupt tourist activities. A major travel company, through their clout, can also get unadvertised price reductions, upgrades, etc. They can also use their influence to solve problems during and after travel such as "lost" hotel reservations and refunds for services not satisfactory or not received. Whether you use an agent or not you pay the same price, so why not?

I would like to thank everyone for the fabulous information that each and every one of you have posted. My husband and I love to travel, and I love to plan trips, but we are still somewhat inexperienced at it (though getting better). I will definitely use all of your suggestions when planning our vacation to Norway next year. Or will it be Greece? Anyway, thank you. <BR>

Wes - This posting and others that I have read in preparation for my 1st European adventure in August are excellent. I have been planning, reading, researching for almost a year and still am not 100% prepared. C'est la vie! I have particularly appreciated Rick Steves, Karen Brown's, Frommer's and Fodor's guidebooks. My local travel agent has been very little help. Karen Brown's group has agents that I've been dealing with and they seem to be very professional and knowledgable for someone in my position. The internet had put a world of information and real advice from seasoned travelers at my fingertips. Thanks for answering these postings, including the inane, insecure, and insignificant (like washcloths). They are each and every one appreciated.

Thanks, Wes, for a great question. Hopefully all the responses will be as thoughtful as the ones above. We are a bit unusual as my husband has a big international meeting every year in October. It alternatives from Europe to the US and we know at least 3 years ahead where it will be. If the U.S. meeting is not particularly appealing, we go to Europe by ourselves and he goes alone to the U.S. meeting. Additiionally, there is a Western Hemisphere meeting in the spring usually in CA, NM,AZ, or Mexico because everyone loves the warm weather and golfing. Because of the international component of his business, we have friends all over the world, and we rely on them primarily for advice, particularly in the UK. And, because we've been at this so long, everytime you go one place you discover another nearby that you must see soon. This happened to us when we were in Munich once and started talking to our waiter who was from Bolzano---so we had to go to the Alto Adige! We go to Italy about once a year to see our relatives near Lucca for business and pleasure. I guess we're very lucky not to have the dilemma of where to go, but the other side of it is we don't have the wide choices that you do. <BR>I too save old Gourmet and Bon Appetit articles and now the wine mag Appellation is good too. Have a llibrary of green Michelins. Very much into Engliish history---husband was a history major in college but Renaissance focus--so there's one interest, and we are both very interested in wine.I never took an Art History course in college and have always regretted it greatly--so I am trying to make up time by learning at least about Italian art---there's so much I will never know I too book our own hotels, choosing smaller ones centrally located. The only time I use a travel agent is for rental cars and train reservations outside the UK. Whoever said to use more than one guide is giving very good advice, and I would add to use the guides that fit your budget as well as your age. I'm not looking for hostels at this point in my life! (although I wish I were!) Also agree with searching on the web for tourist info--French Tourist Agency is certainly impressive. It's fun to ask questions here also, and I thank you for your back to me, but some of the responses are so hostile and without any sense of humor at all. Some downright ignorant. Courtesy doesn't cost anything! This is supposed to be a site for travelers to share information with other travelers rather than snarl at each other. Thanks for a great question. <BR>

Just wanted to resurrect this one more time and bring it to the top. I think readers can learn a great deal from the comments made so far.

My wife and I probably have a different slant on this subject because we travel mostly by bike and always solo, no groups, no support vehicle. We start by planning our next trip on the way home from our current trip, i.e. where we want to go next. (Needless to say, we're travel junkies). My wife does the research using bike mags, Fodors, Frommers, Nat'l Geo, travel mags, bike forums, you name it. Then we wait for the shoulder season air fares to come up and nail them. We're fortunate, we live in the Dallas Metroplex and so load our bikes on the plane at DFW and then I re-asemble them at our destination (Frankfurt, Malpensa). As for lodging, our only criteria is to have a reservation for the first and last night, in between we don't want to be tied down to "have to be in". <BR>I'm 60, my wife 51 and after many trips to Europe we've found bikes are the most satisfying means of meeting people. <BR>

Splendid! I feel as if I have been sitting in a room with a circle of old friends, exchanging ideas, and renewing some ideas long forgotten. I just printed up this 11-page series of messages. A long time ago, we used to do all of the above -- research, contact, questions, winnowing, choosing, deciding. We found that travel agents come in all grades -- novices, part-timers, old pros. They vary a great deal in their levels of expertise and desires to be helpful. Find a good one and you have found a gem. So many of the old hands have left the business due to cut-backs in commissions, particularly from air lines and shipping lines. But the Internet (and web sites such as this) has come to fill in the gap: experience. Some of us, because we have grown old, must take tours...letting someone else lug the bags, attend to the 1,000-and-l chores that go with extended travel. My shelf of guidebooks has grown worn and tattered, thumbed through by friends and offspring. Yet those old Michelin Green Guides remind us how much foreign travel has changed and the Red Guides remind us how prices have shot up. <BR> <BR> I digress: my question is this, while the dollar has zoomed against many foreign currencies, why are we Americans being gouged by tour operators to such places as Indonesia, Thailand, and Malaysia? Their prices have not come down one bit while I am sure their costs (lodging, food, transportation, wages, etc.) have dropped enormously in dollar terms.

Having just returned from two weeks in Spain and Portugal, where all arrangements and plans made from home went so well, I'm feeling really good! I started planning about seven months before leaving. I first went to the public library and got books (many, many books over a long period of time) out to study and decide on an itinerary. They were pretty up to date, but maybe a year old at most. So then I narrowed down the ones I wanted to own and bought them. I also like Rick Steves, Let's Go, Fodors, and Cadogan, and especially the Rough Guide - very intelligently written. This forum was a great help. I loved being able to e-mail my hotel reservations. Over time I developed a two-page list of Internet sites on travel. It definitely paid off. As my husband (who had never been to Europe) said as we took the airport bus (rather than a taxi) from the Madird airport into the city, "this is so easy!" Finally, I agree with trying to go somewhat off-peak season if you can. June was great for Spain & Portugal.

Once my friend(s) and I have decided where we want to go we start reading up - cultural guides, guides regarding accommodation/restaurants, travelogues, etc. and from that combination of info. we put an itinerary together. As we are all very interested in history (esp. ancient and mediaeval) we usually have a good idea what we want to see already (i.e. in Paris the cathedrals, Musee Cluny, etc.) and we are art freaks so always want to see the art galleries wherever we go. Sometimes we combine tours with "doing our own thing", other times we Eurail it. We usually plan to stop at least 4 nights in the first city of call and would spend at least 5 nights in every major city visited each trip, with shorter stays in in-between towns (i.e. Dijon, Lucerne and towns of similar size). We usually prebook hotels in major towns to be sure of getting a room and I can get a good corporate discount through work. Once the outline itinerary has been sketched out we fill it out by checking what dates/times various venues are open (i.e. lots of museums in Europe are closed Mondays or Tuesdays). <BR>Our trips usually last for 5 to 8 weeks, as we can use 2 years leave if we don't go anywhere the year in-between. <BR>The most countries we have visited on one trip is 7 including a stopover in Hong Kong on the way home, but usually we visit no more than 2 countries in the one trip.

Ditto to all the above. Last year our trip plans from Munich to Vienna included staying at a castle each night. Not only was this fun, but the lodging rate compared favorably with most hotels. It was not as expensive as one might imagine. This year we are going to visit Grandfather's homeplace in Switzerland. Using my father-in-law's WWI letters, we also hope to visit the areas of France where he saw action in that bloody war. It seems that most of our trips are "theme" driven, which takes months to plan...but well worth it.

Hi Joyce! I loved your idea of staying at a castle each night; I am planning a two week trip to Germany and trying to do the same thing. Where did you stay in Munich? <BR>

<BR>Lots of very good information much of which I use for the trips we take. However one excellent source that has not been mentioned is International Travel News. It is published monthly on newsprint and written almost entirely by travelers for travelers. They include prices, addresses, complaints, compliments, suggestions and ads from many companies we might not find otherwise. <BR>They will send a free sample copy on request- <BR> ITN <BR> P.O Box 189490 <BR> Sacramento, CA 95818 <BR>I keep mine for years and refer back when I start planning a trip.