How do you plan your European trip?
Jul 19th, 1998, 10:02 AM
#21
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I love traveling, and like others who have posted here, I love planning, researching, etc. it seems like I'm looking in travel books every day, whether I'm planning a trip or not! Anyway, I am now planning a honeymoon, getting married Aug 22, and have from then til Sep 4 to taravel. Started out reading and dreaming about Belize (2 monnths), then moving on to Costa Rica (4 months), then Hawaii (2 weeks) then back to Costa Rica---now with a few days before booking air I'm thinking..."Paris for 4 nights, rent a car and wander..." maybe the idea of NOT knowing where I'm going, getting a chance to revive highschool French, looking at maps, getting lost, making discoveries, you get the picture. Maybe drive around only in France countryside, maybe go into Bavaria, Switzerland or Italy...who knows. Is anybody else this crazy?
Jul 20th, 1998, 05:19 AM
#23
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Hi, Liron! <BR>I'm the one who posted the above question on the Fodor forum. Did so <BR>because I thought the responses would be helpful to people like you who are <BR>beginning the planning stages of a trip. (It distresses me to see <BR>someone's posting that suggests they're going to Europe without having <BR>cracked a guidebook or done any research about what to see, where to go and <BR>WHY! I think of the investment of time and money that offers little reward <BR>to the traveler because they haven't planned. I get equally concerned <BR>about the traveler who queries Fodor and then acts upon recommendations <BR>from experienced travellers, though total strangers, whose likes, <BR>interests, backgrounds may be totally different than the questioner's. <BR> <BR>Having said that, let me recommend one web site for starters. Go to: <BR>city.net/regions/europe then click on any nation on the map. You'll get a <BR>wealth of information about the country, its regions, cities, hotels, <BR>restaurants, events and the like. You'll also find links related to the <BR>country with vast amounts of relevant information. Start there then move <BR>to web sites for auto rental companies, they all have web sites; train <BR>systems: try bahn.de for starters. It's the German rail network and <BR>extraordinarily comprehensive. Check out the national tourist offices on <BR>the internet; they all have web sites. <BR> <BR>If you know specifically where you plan to go, get in touch with me via <BR>Email and I can recommend some specific sites relevant to your plans. I <BR>can also recommend some excellent guide books, as well. <BR> <BR>Look forward to hearing from you.
Jul 22nd, 1998, 10:30 AM
#24
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<BR>Throughout the year I take out travel books from my local library. I'm fortunate to live in an area with a great library system; if I know of a book I want and my library doesn't own it they will request it from another library or a university. I also talk to people who have traveled and pick up ideas of places to visit, hotels, and restaurants. I too use Gourmet, Bon Appetit, New York Times and other food/travel magazines as resources. <BR> <BR>The most difficult part of planning a trip is choosing a location - there are many places I want to visit that I have never seen and, of course, I have my favorites that I want to return to. <BR> <BR>A combination of a planned and unplanned itinerary works best for me, depending on location. In large cities I would book hotels from home several months prior to the trip to ensure good, central accommodations at a budget price (2 star hotels or pensions). If I have a car and can more easily seek out hotels I wait until I get to someplace I'd like to stay for a few days to find lodging. I only rent cars to travel to small towns as the best transportation within cities is walking. <BR> <BR>Last year for a 2-1/2 week trip to Paris and Provence I booked a hotel in Paris for the end of the trip and left the rest to guidebook recommendations, to luck and to ingenuity and had some wonderful experiences with hotels, sights, and people. The last 6 days in Provence we stayed in a chambre d'hôte (similar to a B&B but usually with dinner offered as well as breakfast) in a very small village in the Luberon. The dinners were something to rave over and the owners were charming and friendly. They offered advice on local sights and were genuinely interested in making our stay special. Because everyone staying there ate dinner together at the same large table (usually 6 to 8 people), we shared our daily outings with each other. This made for a rich and rewarding vacation. An unplanned experience like this, meeting and sharing meals with people from Germany, Austria, Canada, and New Mexico proves that a spontaneous schedule has its merits. We had only planned to stay 1 night but stayed 6 nights since it was an experience that may not happen again. <BR> <BR>I would like to share a tip regarding guidebooks. I agree with others who advise using several different guidebooks since one book cannot accommodate all needs. But I don't want to travel with 3 or 4 books. I usually photocopy the sections I need from books I wouldn't take with me and bring only 1 or 2 - usually a Green Guide or Badaekers since I find they're the best for history and information on sights. The photocopies are light weight and can be easily carried and thrown away when you no longer need them. <BR> <BR>I keep accordian folders (by country) with articles from newspapers and magazines, handouts from places I've been, and business cards from restaurants. When I plan a trip I pull out the appropriate folder and I have a wealth of information to supplement guidebooks. <BR> <BR>I've also recently begun to keep a travel notebook with jottings of information from this web site and others and from TV shows such as Rick Steves, Bert Wolfe origins, and Pierre Franey. I note the country in the margin (so I can quickly scan the pages and pull out what I need) and a line or two about a town, a restaurant, or a recommendation from a friend or co-worker. I think as time goes by this will prove to be a valuable resource. <BR> <BR>I hope some of this helps others plan their trips. <BR>Bon voyage.
Jul 30th, 1998, 07:55 PM
#26
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<BR>Great discussion! I also find that planning is one of the best parts of any trip. I travel in Europe frequently, always independently. I second the suggestion already made of subscribing to International Travel News- real,not glitzy. I look forward to each month's copy. At the beginning of this month, I returned from a trip to Switzerland which was different from any other trip I have taken. Three friends and I went under the auspices of Idyll Untours. We had our own apartment for two weeks. Idyll provided excellent support services, but we were completely free to make our own plans. The price (unbelievably reasonable) included the apartment rent, round-trip airfare, and a 15-day Swiss Pass which was good for trains, buses, and lake boats. This type of arrangement with Idyll is available in many countries in Europe. More information about Idyll is available on the net at untours.com.
Aug 27th, 1998, 10:28 AM
#29
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Hi everyone. <BR>I don't think that anything I'm about to say is unique, but I'll add it anyway. <BR>First, I think planning and research is a function of one's personality. Some people prefer to be spontaneous and are willing to put up with a crummy hotel room because the better places are booked, the restaurant that is closed for vacation, the museum that is closed for renovations, etc. I am <BR>definitely a planner and researcher. I too keep accordion files for every destination that I conceivably would want to visit some day, and in them I am constantly depositing magazine articles, restaurant and hotel reviews, travel <BR>Q and A columns from newspapers, free <BR>brochures that you can order by postcard in the back of many magazines, etc. <BR>I contact the respective government tourist offices here in New York and I either ask them to mail me things or I stop by in person and collect things. <BR>I rely heavily on books like Eyewitness, Fodor and/or Frommer, and the "Cheap Eats" and "Cheap Sleeps" series also because sometimes I want to splurge and sometimes I don't. I also visit travel agents to pick up free brochures, but I always compare the information and prices in their brochures to what I find elsewhere. Because convenience of hotel location is important to me, I always <BR>have a map so I know where the various hotels are in relation to public transportation, train stations, etc. <BR>I have always been a reader, so if I come across a description of a special place, I either make a note of it, or photocopy it, and put it in my files. <BR>I don't use travel agents because I have not found one that is more knowledgeable or quicker than I am, but that is not a boast. I envy people who have established relationships with their agents and who can trust them to make the arrangements they want. I am sure by not using one I have missed out on a good deal from time to time. <BR>When actually traveling I try to take only one guidebook, photocopying notes or tearing out pages from other sources that I absolutely want to take with me. <BR>I used to love the American Express guides for the information and the maps in the back, but they have been discontinued. I now prefer to take with me the Eyewitness guides, plus a good map. <BR>I also highly recommend a subscription to International Travel News, a magazine that is published in Sacramento California. A subscription is not too expensive and is worth it. It is not a slick pretty magazine but it is chock-full of readers' recommendations, <BR>warnings, suggestions, etc. It does not address travel in the US or the Caribbean. <BR>I've been surfing the net, too,and find that there is a universe of information,especially this forum. <BR>Other sites include www.usatoday.com and www. washingtonpost.com for international weather reports. Many European countries have tourist sites on the web. Ditto train information. <BR> <BR>Sometimes I too am surprised by the naivete of the questions in this forum. I don't mean that people should be afraid to ask simple questions (I've asked some myself), but reading at least one guidebook first would ease their anxieties and help them narrow down their interests when they decide to ask a question. A question like "Can you recommend a hotel in Paris" is difficult to answer without knowing the preferences for luxury, price, convenience, etc. However, the good news is that at least we are all interested in learning and sharing information. <BR>
Aug 28th, 1998, 07:17 AM
#30
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Wes, your question made me think of the reason for the success of my many trips to Europe. I think it goes back to my original mentors, a retired couple with much travel experience. During my "info sessions" with them, they NEVER talked with any prejudice or paranoia. <BR> <BR>While I have always credited them for getting me started (back in the early '80's) I didn't appreciated or even identify the really important piece of their advice, maybe because it wasn't verbalized...focused on the opportunities not the barriers. From there, I, like most of you, do alot of logistical homework with the many resources available, make my own arragnements, and stay flexible, tollerant, and I respect my hosts. <BR> <BR>Thanks Bill and Jean.
Aug 28th, 1998, 08:26 PM
#31
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I have had great fun the last 10 months planning our first European trip. We started getting some grounding from travel agents asking about prearranged tours/group tours, sitting down reading maps and getting quotes. We then had, by this time, gained some confidence to "call the shots" so to speak. We took our plans back to the agent, had him scale them down and adjust to our own wants/needs. We have ended up with what we consider a great trip coming up in 3 WEEKS. Yipppeee. <BR>We found Fodors, and printed pages and pages (had two boxes full) of clues from the wonderful people who have offered their time and advice. We watch TV shows, look at maps all the time, change our minds again and again. We have contacted the tourist Boards of the countries concerned, hunted thru the travel guides, Gourmet Traveller, travel sections of our local papers. We have used the fax, we have email. We have had great conversations with other Fodors posters by email. The library has seen us every week. <BR> <BR>We gave our travel agent the basic accommodation/air travel/ car hire to book for us. We feel we are now confident enough to do it by ourselves next time - although our agent got us a super airfare deal from Brisbane Australia to Europe. But to all those posters on Fodors (and 95% from Fodors) I say Thank You. The main part of our trip has been done from your help/clues. <BR> <BR>We have 3 weeks to go before liftoff, and even last night I read a posting about Republic of San Marino. We had never heard of it, and guess where we will be heading for a look-see. <BR> <BR>When we return, I hope I am able to help other travellers just as I have been helped. Thank You. Denise - and Neil - ONLY 3 WEEKS TO GO. <BR> <BR>
Aug 28th, 1998, 08:30 PM
#32
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I have had great fun the last 10 months planning our first European trip. We started getting some grounding from travel agents asking about prearranged tours/group tours, costing our own ideas, sitting down reading maps and getting quotes. We then had, by this time, gained some confidence to "call the shots" so to speak. We took our plans back to the agent, had him scale his down and adjust to our own wants/needs.We saved $3000 Aust. just doing this. We have ended up with what we consider a great trip coming up in 3 WEEKS. Yipppeee. <BR>We found Fodors, and printed pages and pages (had two boxes full) of clues from the wonderful people who have offered their time and advice. We watch TV shows, look at maps all the time, change our minds again and again. We have contacted the tourist Boards of the countries concerned, hunted thru the travel guides, Gourmet Traveller, travel sections of our local papers. We have used the fax, we have emailed. We have had great conversations with other Fodors posters by email. The library has seen us every week. <BR> <BR>We gave our travel agent the basic accommodation/air travel/ car hire to book for us. We feel we are now confident enough to do it ourselves next time - although our agent got us a super airfare deal from Australia to Europe. But to all those posters on Fodors (and 95% from Fodors) I say Thank You. The main part of our trip has been done with your help/clues. <BR> <BR>We have 3 weeks to go before liftoff, and even last night I read a posting about Republic of San Marino. We had never heard of it, and guess what came out immediately, the maps - and that is where we will be heading for a look-see. <BR> <BR>When we return, I hope I am able to help other travellers just as I have been helped. Thank You. Denise - and Neil - ONLY 3 WEEKS TO GO. We are not excited much are we??? <BR> <BR>
Oct 11th, 1998, 08:57 AM
#34
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We've got to be the worst planners ever. We left on a short trip to Europe in January 1992, and, well... check my e-mail address. We often travel without reservations, and frequently change our destination in mid-journey. Travel without schedules and reservations works better with some advance work, though. <BR>A lot of our recreational reading is connected with travel, or with destinations we're interested in exploring. <BR>We spend a huge amount of time learning new languages, so that we can cope without having to find someone who speaks English. <BR>We get good maps, sometimes as large scale as hiking maps, and we make sure we know how to use them. (If traveling by train or bus, we make sure we can read the schedules.) <BR>We often carry two guidebooks, one for hotels and restaurants (Rough Guide, Gault-Millau, Michelin Red, Hotels et Auberges de Charme); one for places of interest (Blue Guide, Michelin Green.) <BR>We usually stay in smaller towns. This is just a matter of personal preference. We're more interested in discovering off-the-beaten track gems, than exploring major cities. As it happens, it's easier to find places to stay or eat in small towns. (We'd NEVER go to Paris without reservations.) <BR>We are also fairly skeptical of "must see" destinations. There are a few places, like Spain's Alhambra, or Turkey's Nemrut Dagi, which are unique in the world. But often we've found that the touted site isn't too different from other places which don't get the same publicity or traffic. To cite just one example, the famous Greek theater at Epidavros isn't radically better than the much less famous Greek theater at Dodona. So, we tend to choose an area to visit, and then see what's there, rather than having to fit a schedule around certain "must sees." <BR>We actively avoid lavish hotels which cater to international tourism. Our preferred hotels are those which cater to domestic travelers, of approximately our age and background (pretty standard middle class.) Naturally, there are a lot of hotels like that around, so there's little chance of not finding a room. <BR>We try to explore the cuisine of the country before we arrive, either through ethnic restaurants, or by experimenting at home with cook books. On the journey itself, we often ignore the guides and find restaurants just by (literally) following our noses. <BR>I don't know if this is the best way to travel, but we've learned from experience that it's the best way for us.
May 19th, 1999, 04:34 AM
#35
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To Lynn ([email protected]) and others contemplating European travel. Thought I'd resurrect this for your guidance. There's some good stuff here!
May 19th, 1999, 06:51 AM
#36
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Wes - <BR> <BR>Ever since I discovered this Forum (a year or so ago?), I've become a devotee. I usually start my planning at the library. I have the good fortune of a small public library, which for reasons I couldn't explain always has the most current versions of most of the mainstream guidebooks (Fodor's, Frommers, Michelins, Eyewitness, Access etc.). Yes, I can actually go to the library & peruse the 1999 guidebooks in January of '99. Anyhow, I usually check out as many as I can carry to get an overview & then decide whether or not I may need to actually buy any of the books. Or I may only photocopy specific pages. NEXT, it's on to the NET - and Wes, I do consider you to be one of my travel mentors, as well as many of the other wonderful visitors to Fodor's Forum. <BR>This site has been invaluable as a resource on an astoundingly diverse range of topics (everything from "are or are not Parisiennes 'snotty'" to whether Bras are worn in Europe to a philosophical discussion of the disturbances in the Balkans). <BR>Additionally, I've cruised other travel websites - big fan of Rick Steves info.
May 22nd, 1999, 06:08 PM
#37
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Hi Wes: If you are still checking in, I just "joined" this site a couple months ago, have seen your numerous very helpful comments and just saw this old one pop up. You ask alot of good questions. <BR>Why we go: <BR>Have gone to Europe 2 times and are planning our 3rd because both of us love travel and history. <BR>What prompted the trips? <BR> Once was to start with a visit to relatives stationed in Naples, next was to buy a car and visit our daughter spending a semester in Germany, and this fall because we have enough frequent flyer miles! <BR>Which locations: <BR> Locations vary because of the above reasons. Where we can fly into and out of with nonstop flights if possible. Other than our novice trip (in 1984 was pre internet and Rick Steves we used a travel agent and will never again) we begin planning 9 months to a year before we go. <BR>Planning is half the fun. Locations are selected based on research and this trip, ancestry. My grandparents were born in Austria-Hungary, near Prague, so Prague is a stop. My sister-in law,is going with us and her grandparents are from the area around Budapest, next stop. We also have other locations we've either read about or are on the way to the places we want to visit. <BR>Trip tools: <BR> Last trip we bought a Michelin Europe Road Atlas, spiral bound, covering all of Europe. It is perfect for on the road. Web sites such as cwlease are perfect for confirming routes. <BR>Reservations: <BR>Since we prefer smaller pensions, around $100, centrally located, many in pedestrian areas, (with a wc) we usually book reservations, early in big or popular locations. Most are Rick Steves recommendations. <BR>Tour Books: <BR>Primarily Rick. The key for us was to find a tour book that fit our travel style and preferences. I think the first time I spent 3 hours at the book store, thumbing through fodors, frommers, Rick, Micheling, etc. until I settled on his books. This is augmented by web sites, (for this trip, many web sites.) It is so great now that many hotels have their own. Usually I call for availability and then Fax for confrimation. With MCI, 9 cent Sundays are great for Western Europe. <BR>Tourist Boards: <BR>In 1997 we used them extensively. Switzerland was particularly good. This time it is iffy. France took months to get and refers to other data. Italy was also so so, but Germany, the Czech republic and Hungary were great. (Cz and Hungary now charge $3 but it is worth it.) <BR>Stages: <BR>There are generally the following stages <BR>Itinerary Planning and driving Routes <BR>Tourist Board Requests <BR>Web site research <BR>Hotel Reservations <BR>Car Reservations (All the above, done before 3 months of departure) <BR>Daily planning - sites to see, stops enroute. <BR>Weather and Packing <BR>This may seem prolonged but it works for us. That is not to say, provided the opportunity, we would not jump on the plane tommorrow!!! <BR> <BR> <BR>
May 23rd, 1999, 03:09 AM
#38
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Neal Sanders! Thank you so much for showing me how to get first-class tickets without paying a fortune for them! I have been one of those in the back with my knees up to my chin, stumbling past all of you stretched out in the front, with cramps in my knees and a headache from being hit in the back of the head a hundred times and vowing that I was going to find a way! The things I have learned from all of you! Thank you for being patient with those of us who are less experienced--we're learning!
