mominthepark

Many of you have helped so much in my past post about our family's first visit to Europe next summer. Thanks again for that!

To sum things up, we are flying into London and out of Rome. We will have 2 weeks in Europe with my husband, myself and our 3 children: 19, 16 15. My father has expressed an interest in coming with us, he has been to Europe 2 times in the past with my mother (who has since passed). He was stationed in Heidelberg for a few years with the Army and would really like the kids to see where he was as he has talked about it frequently.

We are attempting to plan this trip ourselves and are trying to see as much as we can, without exhausting everyone! Before my dad was joining us, we were going to go to London, Paris, and on to Rome. We haven't figured out transportation once we are in Europe nor accommodations. Does anyone have an idea of a way of seeing London, Paris, Heidelberg and Rome?

Thanks in advance.

janisj

4 cities over 2 weeks w/ 6 people will be very rushed. A single or young couple can move faster but 3 generations/6 people -- everything will take longer.

Have you purchased your flights already? If not I'd seriously consider dropping one of the big three (me personally -- I'd keep London and Paris and drop Rome, but perhaps Rome is a must for you and Paris or London not so much)

If your 2 weeks includes your travel time you will only have about 11 - 11.5 days free on the ground. Or -- do you mean 16 or 17 days total netting you 14 days in Europe? That will make a difference.

But London/Paris/Heidelberg would make a great 2 week trip. (or any two plus Heidelberg)

nytraveler

Sorry - but with 6 people and 2 weeks - and do we know how many nights you actually have in europe - you are now starting to just stuff too much into your limited time.

You already have 3 huge cities with tons of sights. Adding a trip to Heidelberg you are now taking 3 days out of that trip - one to get there, one to stay there and another to get to the next city. Assuming you fit it in between Paris and Rome you can expect travel to take:

Paris to Heidelberg - at least 3.5 hours with 1 or more changes - so at least half a day door to door

Heidelberg to Rome - at least 11 hours with multiple changes - so you might want to look into flights from nearby airports

Have a look at bahn.de to get an idea of train options (It has schedules for all of europe although you can buy only tickets to, from of within Germany.

I suggest you lay out your trip day by day so you can see the effect this will have on your itinerary - and decide which of the other cities you will want to take days from.

Also do realize that you are now 6 people - which will make all of the logistics more complicated and time-consuming (5 was already a lot).

I understand your father's interest in showing Heidelberg to your family - but you should carefully consider what you will be giving up to do so.

janisj

Meant to add -- In fact I think London/Paris/Heidelberg (or any two plus Heidelberg) would be a better paced trip than London/Paris/Rome because all three require a lot of time to see/do much. A day/night in Heidelberg and the rest of your time divided between two bigger cities would make for happier campers IMO.

janisj

Just saw nyt's post -- IMO you wouldn't be giving up -- you'd be gaining by adding Heidelberg and subtracting one of the others and slowing down a bit.

Rushing around means you actually see less - the urge to cram in a LOT usually results in at least some of the group being really unhappy and stressed.

Sassafrass

Yes. It adds about a day of travel, but is certainly doable. I have actually done the trip both ways, but it was several years ago. It will add a bit of complexity, but not that much and IMHO would be wonderful for your Father and your kids.

I don't know costs, except trains are not bad. I also do not know logistics once you are in Heidelberg. I was just passing through or had a car. It might be easiest to just use taxis.

Is your Father retired military? If not, he may not have access to any military bases. Look into that if it is important to him. He could contact one of the bases first and see what could be arranged. Many of the bases are closed.
Take the kids up to the castle. It is interesting and fun. I have forgotten when you are going. Summer? There are some great events in Heidelberg then.

Now, how to do it. It is easy and straightforward.
Take the train from Paris, Gare de l'est to Heidelberg, about 3 & 3/4 hours. Done.
To get from Heidelberg to Rome -
Take the train from Heidelberg to the Frankfurt rail station at the airport, under an hour. Catch a flight from Frankfurt to Rome. That day of Heidelberg to Rome will be your most tiresome - 3/4 day.

Extra bits.
I would stay at least two nights in Heidelberg because of travel getting there and travel and flight getting to Rome, so you are rested and have a whole day there to explore. It is a charming town with beautiful architecture that is very different from other places you will see. Stay in a Guest Haus and try some great German food. It will be worth it.

Be aware, there are two train stations in Frankfurt. My spelling may be off, but the one in the city center is Hauptbahnhof and the one at the airport is Frankfurt am main Flughofen. You want to go to the airport station.

The largest station in Germany before you arrive in Heidelberg is Mannheim. You will go through there on the way from Paris. I think you can book directly from Heidelberg to Frankfurt airport, but depending on train times, you may/may not have to take a train to Mannheim and change to another to Frankfurt.

Frankfurt airport is large, but very nice. Print a map out before you go. it is probably being way too cautious, but I would allow a couple of hours to find my terminal, gate and check in. Check with your airline. They might want more. There are a couple of good cafeteria type places so I would allow even more time and have lunch before boarding the flight for Rome.

Do not remember your exact number of days. Arrange to suit
Arrive London - 4 nights = 3 + days
Train to Paris - 4 nights = 3 + days
Train to Heidelberg - 2 nights = 1 + day
Train to Frankfurt, Fly to Rome - 5 nights = 4 days
Home from Rome

Fussgaenger

"We will have 2 weeks in Europe" - I assume that means 14 nights on the ground. Day 1 will be mostly a loss (transit, jet-lag) so figure 13 full days and nights. That's not much for these major destinations. You will likely need to "shortchange" some of them. Here's a possible itinerary.

Nights 1-4: London (3 days of sightseeing.)
Morning of Day 5: Eurostar to Paris (fast)
Nights 5-8: Paris (3.5 days of sightseeing.)
Morning of Day 9: Train to Heidelberg (4 hours; 2 half-days of sightseeing in H'berg)
Night 9: Heidelberg
Day 10: PM train to Stuttgart (about 45 min.)
Night 10: Stuttgart
Morning Day 11: Fly in am (Germanwings?) to Rome.
Nights 11-14: Rome (3.5 days of sightseeing.)

Sassafrass

I would be remiss if I did not say that everyone else is absolutely correct that a trip including all four will be extremely rushed with no time for day trips, which IMHO, add immensely to travel.

What you cut is personal, what I would cut doesn't count. Personally, I try never to include more than one really big city in a trip and two max.

However, you asked how it could be done, And I think I supplied that.

One thing I forgot though. If you cannot get a direct flight from Frankfurt am main to Rome, you sure do not want to do it. Don't add connections.

You also do not want to go to Frankfurt Hahn airport - way to far and hard to get too, so don't buy tickets from a carrier like Ryanair that use that airport, but say Frankfurt.

Good luck with this.

mominthepark

We will have 14 nights there. Rome is a must for us. This is going to be a Christmas gift for our kids from both my dad and us, so we have not brought the kids into any of the planning yet. Once we do, I know my youngest will beg to go to London.

We haven't actually purchased the tickets yet, but will next week. But it makes sense, price-wise, to fly into London and out of Rome.

I understand that Europe is very big and there is a large distance between London and Rome with SO much to see in between. I'm just pleased that there is a way to make this work. I have only spoken with my dad about this briefly and maybe once he realizes how much out of the way it is, he may reconsider. Not sure if we can get into the base or not.

Fussgaenger on Nov 14, 15 at 6:02pm
"We will have 2 weeks in Europe" - I assume that means 14 nights on the ground. Day 1 will be mostly a loss (transit, jet-lag) so figure 13 full days and nights. That's not much for these major destinations. You will likely need to "shortchange" some of them. Here's a possible itinerary.

Nights 1-4: London (3 days of sightseeing.)
Morning of Day 5: Eurostar to Paris (fast)
Nights 5-8: Paris (3.5 days of sightseeing.)
Morning of Day 9: Train to Heidelberg (4 hours; 2 half-days of sightseeing in H'berg)
Night 9: Heidelberg
Day 10: PM train to Stuttgart (about 45 min.)
Night 10: Stuttgart
Morning Day 11: Fly in am (Germanwings?) to Rome.
Nights 11-14: Rome (3.5 days of sightseeing.)

I really like this itinerary-thanks

I just checked and the flight from Stuttgart to Rome would be around $450.00 for 6 tickets.

Sassafrass

Ideas for fine tuning - probably many others
Because the airport in Stuttgart is another 30 minutes by fast train from the train station, it is actually a longer total travel time than to Frankfurt where the train station is right at the airport.

However, Stuttgart is a smaller, easier to navigate airport, direct flights are shorter and you found less expensive flights than from Frankfurt.

The day in Heidelberg will be long and tiring with no hotel for a quick rest. I recommended two nights in Heidelberg to avoid one nighters, to avoid having only parts of days for sightseeing and to avoid spending extra time getting to another hotel.

Your plan gives that up anyway, so You might see if there are any early evening flights from Stuttgart and go on to Rome if you can that night.

If not, then staying in Heidelberg would actually add only about 45 minutes travel time the next morning. Would be nice at the end of the day in Heidelberg to just go to your hotel and not have to travel and get to another one late at night.

Maybe a toss up. Depends on your Dad's stamina and if you are morning or night people.

janisj

You have to take into consideration the size of your group. W/ six everything/everybody will be in a slightly different gear.

I've taken groups of 5 to 13 (more than a dozen group trips) and you just can't move as fast. Every meal, rest break, sightseeing stop -- <u>everything</u> will be affected by the group dynamic.

Any two cities in Europe are w/i short flights -- so if London and Rome are your two musts and Heidelberg is a 'would REALLY like to' . . . That is what I'd do. Remember, you will lose more than half a day w/ every move.

I'd fly into London and stay 6 nights/5.5 days (jet lag will affect all of you differently and could pretty much kill your arrival day so you need an extra day in your first city. 5.5 days is woefully short for London but MUCH better than 3. 2 nights/1day in Heidelberg. 6 night/5 days in Rome. Fly home.

thursdaysd

I'm with janisj - London, Heidelberg and Rome.

For a random date in June London to Frankfurt by air is $101 on Lufthansa - that's LHR to FRA.

There's a 12:20 flight on Vueling out of Stuttgart for the same price as Germanwings. No reason to spend the night in Stuttgart.

loncall

Heidelburg is truly lovely and would be a good contrast to the larger capital cities.

Might be worth knowing that you can fly to Frankfurt [which has regular connecting bus services to Heidelburg] from London City airport which is highly civilised and much closer to centre of London with shorter check in times than the larger airports thus significantly reducing hassle and journey time.

If you catch a morning flight you can get there in time to enjoy lunch in the main square in Heidleburg !

Gretchen

Heidelberg is charming on its own let alone the connection for your dad.
If you like your itinerary, then let it be so.
I assume you have your tickets already from the other thread.
It is too bad Rome is a must. London, Paris, Heidelberg and some towns nearby or even Venice would give an easier and pleasant trip, since now Heidelberg is a must.

We've already been through the math of Rome being "near". I think this will be a pell mell trip of getting to and from train stations and airports. Sorry.

mocha_dolce

Definitely give consideration to the suggestions about spending a little extra time in each location. Having done a fair amount of European traveling with children, it is not unusual for one of them to arrive a little under-the-weather from not eating or sleeping well on an overnight flight. With such a large group, you would do well to consider renting a 3 bedroom apartment for a week in 2 destinations. London/Rome would be great. If you really want to detour to Heidelberg (it is lovely but out of the way), stay in a centrally located, character-filled hotel like Hotel Zum Ritter St. Georg:
http://www.hotel-ritter-heidelberg.com.

StCirq

I totally agree with janis. You already did a pretty good job of winnowing down your original list, which was impossible. Now you're backsliding by adding another place. Traveling with 6 people to 4 disparate places in 2 weeks is going to leave everyone exhausted and cranky unless you have years of experience floating around Europe.

Drop something if you're going to add in Heidelberg. For me it would be Rome, but for you Paris sounds like a better idea. It's all too easy to say "I understand Europe is a very big place....." but once on the ground, you'll see how you really don't understand how big it is at all when you try to move around in a party of 6. Remember that you can only move from one place to the next at the speed of the slowest person in your group.

Dukey1

Make sure your Dad is very aware that altho H-berg has not changed the military presence there HAS changed, and considerably. Not nearly the presence seen in the past so the concentration should probably be on the historic aspects/buildings.

flpab

If you stay in Stuttgart the Intercity hotel in the train station is great. Close to everything and all the bathrooms have been redone.

Fussgaenger

Stuttgart hotel: It's about 30 minutes by public transport from Stuttgart's main station to the airport terminal. Not too bad. But that involves a move with 6 people and bags from the station to your hotel and from your hotel back to the station in the morning for another ride to the airport... Since your purpose in Stuttgart is merely to fly out, you might find it easier to head from Heidelberg straight to a Stuttgart Airport hotel, one with a morning shuttle to the terminal. (Check shuttle hours against flight time before booking.)

http://www.stuttgart-airport.com/tra...tgart-airport/

Gretchen

In spite of your certainty you daughter will want London, think about dropping it. She is the youngest--your older kids might get the most "clout"--they won't go back with you--she might.
However all this is a moot point if you have purchased the tickets.
But maybe you haven't since you need another one for Dad.