user_3939

Sorry in my last post I ment the pictures of Lisbon and Sintra, not Porto. Porto seems a little far from Lisbon for a day trip and I feel that it would need to have a 2nd base, and therefore the trip would becoming like a tour of Portugal which would need more than 1 week. lol

nytraveler

Sorry - my experience was not a one-off. We were there 4 nights, although we spent parts of a couple of days in Belem and Sintra - and all over Lisbon we saw at least a couple of young men - and sometimes groups - in front of every bank, near the doors of many restaurants and not far from tourist sights. They were begging in what I would consider a very aggressive way and there didn't seem to be any police presence. This alone made it unpleasant enough that I wouldn;t want to return - as well as the fact that we saw what there was.

This isn;t a huge city like London or Paris where you can stay for months and not see everything - or even like a gorgeous provincial city like Strasbourg or Salzburg where you can easily spend 4 or 5 days in the city and nearby countryside.

On the pro side it is VERY inexpensive and if budget is a major issue and you prefer a warmer climate it may make sense - but it does have all of the issues of a poor country.

But it simply isn;t comparable to any of the primary and most of the secondary cities in europe.r

thursdaysd

Porto - and Coimbra - is too far for a day trip.

@nyt - what year and what area? I am a solo female traveler and have visited Lisbon several times, for more than four nights each time and most recently in Nov 2014, sleeping just off Praca dos Restauradores, and have seen nothing that matches your description. Of course, I don't flaunt any bling.

Portugal is NOT a "poor country" in the sense you seem to mean. (If you want to see a poor country in Europe try Moldova. Or Albania.) I have not found a shortage of things to do in and around the city.

danon

I visited Lisbon for 4 nights.( 2014)...
designer stores line up the major avenue, many restaurant offer excellent meals.
five star hotels are not less expensive than in Madrid. One can find poorer areas in some neighborhoods, but I also saw parts of the city that
seemed elegant and upscale.
Except very late at night, I took public transit without feeling unsafe.

Not familiar with the rest of Portugal but staying in Lisbon certainly
did not feel like being in a "poor country".

Robert2533

nyt must be remembering something from a couple of decades ago. Lisbon is as expensive as Madrid, but a bit less expensive then Barcelona and Paris.

IMDonehere

As anyone been been to Festa de Sao Goncalo in Amarante? It is not only a beautiful town, it is the most unusual festa I have ever attended. Single men and women give each breads in the shape of phalluses. It has been going on for hundreds of years.

Just google Festa de Sao Goncalo images.

di2315

Beautiful? No

But so captivating in so many other ways, my advice would be to go for it! Di

HelenaFatima

What you can find in Lisbon different from the other cities you've mentioned:

- The light (the sun light). It's so shiny!
- the street floor: you will be walking over art, although it is very difficult for me when I'm in Lisbon for professional reasons, as it is a very dangerous floor for high heels.
- The river. This is a river, a large one, and the ocean is close by, you don't find it in many major cities.


- Dark people - lots of portuguese are coloured people (God created black and white, portuguese created mestizo). Not refugeees from Africa, but portuguese people whose parent's lived in Angola, Guiné, Mozambique, Cape Vert, etc, that where portuguese colonies until 1974. If you don't feel confortable with different colours, you should not come to Portugal. We also have a lot of portugues gipsies, and in general you would not find blond portuguese people.
- Poverty - yes, we are not rich. So your money worths a lot here.
- Portugal is not in the way to visit other places. It's the end of Europe, half border with Spain and the other half with Atlantic ocean. No one comes to Portugal because it is near other country. Only comes to Portugal people who wants to visit Portugal.

The WOW factor: Rome, definately!!! I spent 5 days there, and I was WOW, WOW, WOW, all the time! I've been to London, Paris, Athens, Madrid, but the WOW thing is Rome. For me, at least.

Anywhere you decide to go, wish you a nice and pleasant stay.

Helena

bvlenci

I was in Lisbon for a conference a few years ago. Conferences don't leave a lot of time for sightseeing, but I did cut out a bit to have a look at the city. And I did spend a fair amount of time in the parts of the city not very much frequented by tourists. My main impression was that it was a bit of a mish-mash. There were beautiful tiled buildings next to shoddy modern constructions. Walks that started out interesting soon passed through desolate wastelands. Urban planning seems to have been at an all-time low in the 20th century.

The food, at least what we had, was not on a level of what I'm accustomed to in Italy. I didn't seek out recommended restaurants, but in Italy I rely on being able to find a good restaurant without the aid of foodie blogs.

All in all, it was an interesting city, with an air of faded glory, but I certainly wouldn't put it in the class of Rome, Paris, or London.

I don't remember seeing a lot of beggars. Maybe they've all gone to countries that are better off.

nytraveler

My last visit was 3 years ago - and the problem of beggars - not guys selling things on the street - was still very common.

And sorry - but Portugal is one of the poorer countries of europe - that;s why prices are so low. May not be much poorer than Spain - but Spain has been having serious financial problems for decades and their prices are also very low compared to most of europe (even central european countries).

I must admit I am also not a fan of Madrid - but for different reasons. However, I do adore Andalusia which has an incredible wealth of unique sights and a fascinating past to be explored (like which there is nothing I have seen in Portugal). I'm not saying don't go. And if budget is an issue (it isn't for us) and you prefer warmer places (we prefer cooler) you may be able to have a longer vacation there.

But our focus on travel is history (every palace, castle, cathedral and historic sight - the older and more unique the better) besides a beautiful city with lots of parks and promenades and opportunities for fine dining and cafe sitting to just soak up the atmosphere (preferably sophisticated or deliberately funky versus folksy).

thursdaysd

Anyone who thinks Lisbon is missing history is simply not looking. It was only the capital of a major empire.

Anyone who thinks Lisbon isn't beautiful can't have spent time visiting the miradores. Or Belem.

Last time I looked there were parks (aka jardim) and the Avenida da Liberdade is a great promenade. Or you can walk the riverfront at Parque des Nacoes.

Anyone who thinks there are no good cafes in Lisbon isn't looking (like right on the Praca Rossio just to start), but then three days (four nights equals three days), two of them spent on day trips, doesn't leave much time for that. Of course, I prefer to hang out at the Solar do Vinho do Porto in the evening...

Funny that nyt seems to be the only poster who has had trouble with beggars.

More photos:

https://kwilhelm.smugmug.com/Travel/...o-2008/Lisbon/

But I do agree with nyt about Madrid. Just shows we all react differently to different places, and you need to go see for yourself.

Robert2533

All things being equal, the cost of a stay in Madrid and Lisbon/Proto are less expensive then Paris and Rome mainly due to the hotel taxes.

thursdaysd

@Robert - well, I think there are more options in the <b>center</b> in Lisbon than in Paris! I don't stay at the Avenida Palace, which is central but around 200 euro/night this month, but at the Residencial Florescente nearby which is less than half that. Unfortunately, the Paris hotel steps from the St. Paul metro that I used to use, and that was in the Florescente's price range, got bought out and poshed up and is now too expensive. I don't think that's just a matter of taxes.

HelenaFatima

nytraveller said: "But our focus on travel is history (every palace, castle, cathedral and historic sight - the older and more unique the better)"

Lisbon had a major earthquake (believed to be between 8,7 to 9 in Richter's scale) in 1755, followed by a tsunami. This destroyed almost all the old city.

danon

I have been looking at hotels in Lisbon for another visit in the fall,
the rates are 200-250 euros for the accommodation we prefer - not cheap at all.
( certainly more expensive than Berlin and many other European cities )
I don't know where in Spain travelers find low prices , but it would not be
hotels in Madrid or Barcelona ( at least the ones we like)
In smaller towns, like Salamanca or Zaragoza, accommodation is about half of that in Madrid,
but the same can be said for Strasbourg compared to Paris.

Robert2533

If nyt wants to experience history, try visiting central Portugal and its 12 historic villages, overlooked by many travelers to Portugal. And then there are the classic 26 Schist Villages found between Coimbra and Castelo Branco.

bvlenci

There are many inexpensive hotels in Lisbon, and also in Madrid, but if you put in the qualification, "that I like", there is no way to qualify that. There may be no inexpensive hotels in the world that you like.

After the conference was over, we spent a few nights in Belem before going home, and during the conference we saw several of the miradores. We also took that famous tram ride, I don't remember the tram number; there were only a few Portuguese people on the tram, along with a pack of tourists like us.

We did like Belem better than the center of Lisbon, and the Jerónimos Monastery is worth a considerable detour, but the other European capitals mentioned have much more to offer in the way of interesting quarters and most of them have more beautiful scenic overlooks as well.

emily71

I've known people who liked Lisbon but it wasn't their first trip to Europe. If you want to be wowed, I think Paris, London, Rome would be your best bet. I loved Spain and Madrid in particular but not because of the architecture or any must-see sights(other than the Prado). More the people watching and walking around.

I would not call Lisbon exciting but if you have a chance to go, why not?

Tabernash2

"I guess I just have to see a Lisbon trip not as a once in a lifetime trip to Europe to see so many iconic and huge attractions, but rather a very interesting destination that is a mixture of everything and a great introduction to Europe."

user, that's a good way to look at it. We stayed 5 nights in Lisbon, flew to London for DH's conference for 4 nights, then took EuroStar to Paris for 3 nights. Flying Lisbon - London was a surprisingly expensive airfare. We are luckily able to use United miles on TAP Portugal airlines (which was a very nice experience, because we also had access to the fully-stocked airport lounge when our flight was one hour late. I was wishing it would be pushed back further, so we could relax longer there.)

If you're interested in the Hotel Avenida Palace, which I highly recommend, I would call or e-mail them directly, and see what price you can get. Breakfast is included, as I said. Staying there really made our visit to Lisbon more special.

nytraveler

Helena -

You are correct. That was a famous earthqauke of which I was well aware (since my degree is in european history) and that is the reason that much of Lisbon is modern (in the european sense).

Not like Rome of Paris or London where you can find things 2,000 years old. Or even the cities in Andalusia, the heyday of which was between the 7th and 14th centuries