I need some help from all experienced rail travelers. We are arriving in to Paris Est late, at 10:20 p.m. from Munich, and had wanted to rent a car and drive to Rouen to begin our trip through Normandy. The car rentals at the Paris Nord train station closes at 11 p.m. <BR> <BR>How accurate are the trains? Do they ever arrive early? Or are they usually late? <BR> <BR>Also, if my train from Munich arrives at Paris Est, and I only have 40 minutes to make it to the car rental pick-up at Paris Nord, can this be done? It looks simple enough from the metro maps, but they can be misleading. <BR> <BR>Oh, and the reason we are renting our car in Paris and not outside the city is that we were told by the car rental agencies we couldn't get a car on Sunday morning outside Paris. <BR> <BR>Right now I am thinking about just staying overnight in Paris and picking up the car early Sunday morning, to be safe. Any suggestions??

Trains are rarely late in western Europe - only extraordinary events (strikes, weather, strikes, accidents, strikes, war, strikes, etc.) make the trains late. They rarely arrive early (a minute or two, maybe, but that's about it). <BR>You should have little problem getting from Gare de l'Est to Gare du Nord in 40 minutes BUT you may find the car place already closed (the French are no different than anyone else; alone, in a rental booth, no business for 3 hours, it's 10:50....you fill in the rest). SO, dahlink, I would recommend staying overnight in Paris and getting the car the next morning. Saturday, late night, driving out of Paris? Oooh yah. <BR>Rouen has an airport; it has Hertz. Doubt it is closed on Sunday; see if your car company has a desk at Rouen airport that's open on Sunday (see: French are no different than anyone else. Imagine telling French exec arriving Sunday noon "sorry, we aren't open to rent a car; you'll have to come in Saturday night"...yeeaaahhh that'd go over like a gonfleur plomb). <BR>Net net on this: don't get the car Saturday night; stay over in Paris, go to Mass at Notre Dame (I'm a Prod but still think Mass at Notre Dame is great) then either pick up the car at Gare du Nord or take the train to Rouen and then to the airport to pick up the car.

A few years back, I took the train in the reverse direction, from Paris to Munich. It took about 8 or 9 hrs, & was pretty much on time all the way. But that is alot of time & miles in which something unforseen could cause a minor delay. In all my European train travels, about 97% of the time, the trains have been on time (especially when you are a couple minutes behind & see your train pull out of the depot exactly on time. Actually, the only departure delays I have personally encountered have been with overnight sleepers where the cabins have not been prepared on time, so the depature time is delayed, but always still seem to get to the destination fairly close to the scheduled time. On 1 train trip from Oslo to Stockholm, there was alot of rain & part of the tracks were flooded in Norway. So they scheduled buses for the first part of the journey, instead of trains to get past the flooding. But the buses were scheduled to leave about an hour before the scheduled train time(good thing we checked with information the day ahead & got to the train station early or we would have missed the bus)once we connected to the train, we pulled into Stockholm almost exactly on time, about 15 mins later than scheduled. If your trip balances on being able to pick up the car though, I would stay the night & get it the next moring just to be sure.

&lt;yeeaaahhh that'd go over like a &lt;gonfleur plomb <BR> <BR>Lead air pump?? I guess I will never understand French i

I wouldn't want to worry all the way from Munich to Paris (8:30 hours), wondering if I'm gonna make it or not ... Why don't you just leave an hour or so earlier (12:39pm) arriving in Paris Est at 9:04 pm? Are you eventually worried about the train change in Mannheim ... 20 minutes should be more than enough! <BR>I like Elvira's advice better, though <BR>Paulo <BR> <BR>

I guess either others have different definition of what it means to be on time or we had extraordinarily bad luck. Let me mention the UK trains since they were what I thought to be on time. <BR> <BR>During a recent trip, we have taken about 10 trains in UK, only one 20 minutes late, other on time in British way, train starts rolling before the second had hits 30 seconds past. We were impressed. <BR> <BR>In France, we took 16 trains, 15 of them late, one exactly on time-- Rennes to Paris TGV. I guess if you define on time to be within 3-9 minutes, then most trains are "on time." One TGV was 1hr20 min late arrival -- really fouled up connections. <BR> <BR>In Germany, we took about 20 trains. 19 of them late, only one was on time. One was 20 minutes late, all others less than 10 minutes late. <BR> <BR>So what does this mean?

What does this mean? It means that it is time for a return of Benito Mussolini. He made the trains run on time.

Hitting premature post my reply... <BR> <BR>so you should probably be reasonably "on time" no matter how you look at it. But why not plan for contingencies? Just in case, what would you do if you cannot get your car at Gare du NOrd?

I agree with the above postings. I've never been delayed on a French train. However, I would be very skeptical about my car being ready or available at 11:00. More than once we have arrived at a destination, confirmation of reservation in hand, only to be told, "Sorry we have no cars". Granted this has happened to us more frequently in the U.S., and under threats of grave bodily harm, a car has materialized (usually and upgrade). But do you really want to throw a tantrum at the station in hopes a Frenchman will take pity upon you? I think not. <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>

I've not been particularly impressed with German rail on-time performance. It's not bad, mind you, but you're talking about even a few minutes being important. If I were traveling wholly within Switzerland and not have to change stations I'd be comfortable with the schedule. With an international train and the need to travel between stations, the odds of making it all work are less than 100%. <BR> <BR>Personally I'd fret all the way from Muenich in that situation. I'd much prefer a more conservative plan.

<BR> <BR>Dear Ms Lynn, <BR> <BR>I agree with Paulo: I'd take the 1239, change in Mannheim, and arrive in Paris at 2104. <BR> <BR>Ben Haines, London <BR>

<BR> <BR>Dear Ms Lynn, <BR> <BR>I agree with Paulo: I'd take the 1239, change in Mannheim, and arrive in Paris at 2104. <BR> <BR>Ben Haines, London <BR>

Thanks, everyone, for your advice. I knew I could count on this group for advice. <BR> <BR>I have to say I'm disappointed I couldn't find the earlier train myself, but I'll blame Rail Europe for not letting me know that was an option. Out of curiosity, how did Paolo and Ben find out about the earlier train - was it using Thomas Cook? I guess this is another case where the old-fashioned books have succeeded and computers have failed me... <BR> <BR>Still, am I safe counting on the earlier train to arrive in time and to find a car still there? Arriving at 2104 would give me almost two hours, but now I'm fretting that the cars may be gone. I'm leaning towards playing it safe and staying in Paris that night so we can enjoy our train ride. If we didn't get our car, we'd be out a deposit in our hotel in Rouen and then stuck finding a room somewhere in Paris at the last minute, and I'm not sure I'm enough of a gambler to risk it. And I KNOW my super anal engineer husband who has every minute of our trip planned out is not enough of a gambler. All of Paris would hear his cries if we couldn't pick up our car! <BR> <BR>Thanks again. <BR>

I would guess that Ben has used the old reliable Thomas Cook ... I just used the Deutsche Bahn site for travel on a saturday next year in April (you don't say when you're going). <BR>Paulo <BR>

They're pretty accurate. Just point in the intended direction and let go, the rails tend to keep them on track. <BR>

Hi, Annalynn, <BR>I have to agree with Elvira...walking around in Paris at 10 PM on a Saturday night beats the tar out of driving in the dark to Rouen on unfamiliar roads (never mind the 5 years you will have aged getting out of Paris) in an unfamiliar rental car, yet. While the two stations are close, there is still an issue of negotiating the Metro or the taxi queues, and I've arrived late at night at the Gare de l'Est and found it pretty desolate. If you stay the night you can almost certainly rent a car on Sunday either at the station, or at CDG airport. Rental car companies in France honor reservations like anywhere else, and the airport on a Sunday will be (a) open and (b) out of the city center in more or less the right direction. So enjoy the city of light in the dark, and you'll be early for lunch in Rouen the next day. <BR> <BR>My fave late train line is one which I heard many times on arriving at the Queen Street Station in Glasgow 20 minutes after I was supposed to be at work. "British Rail apologise for the late arrival of your train. This was due to its running behind schedule."

West European public transport is THE fastest(TGV in France, ICE in Germany etc. etc.) and most efficeient in the world!!!

Paulo is right: I used the Thomas Cook European Timetable, which is in the reference libraries of many large cities. <BR> <BR>I'd not think of a metro from Paris Est to Paris Nord. the stations are ten minutes walk from each other. Rather, I usually take an Est luggage trolley, ignore the directional signs to Gare du Nord (which dump you at the foot of a flight of steps), wheel it along Rue du 8 Mai 1945, turn right onto Rue du Fauborg St Denis, and there I am at the corner of Gare du Nord. All the stations, and all the luggage trolleys, belong to French Railways: I am not engaged in theft. <BR> <BR>I don't know what is "desolate" about the two stations about ten at night. Does John mean that there aren't many people about ? So what: Paris is a civilised and safe city, with no tradition of mugging. <BR> <BR>Please write if I can help further. <BR> <BR>Ben Haines, London <BR> <BR>Fodors <BR> <BR> <BR>

For Ben, <BR>It was later than 10 and I meant quite empty and rather shut down. <BR>Do you think Annalynn and spouse ought to hurry to the car hire desk at Nord and commence driving?