Hello, my husband and I (both Canadian) are going to Germany for most of the month of September for our honeymoon (about 3 weeks). He has traveled a fair amount (England, South Africa, Thailand and most of South-East Asia, Morocco, etc. although has never been to Germany) and I have not (unless you count a few week long trips to Mexican/Cuban resorts). He thought it would be good for me to plan this trip, since I have family here and this would be my first big trip outside of North America. I am 26 and he is 35. We are both really easy going outdoorsy types. We love camping, hiking, biking, etc. We really love wine, food, and especially for me art and architecture. I also have some family in Germany that I am looking forward to meeting for the first time.

Okay. So here is the tricky business. This was my planned itinerary so far and I am bumping into some transportation issues (mostly timing and order of stops). We are planning to take trains for the most part unless I state otherwise...

landing in Frankfurt and staying with family in Darmstadt for 2 nights

traveling to the Rhine valley and staying in Bacharch for 2 nights

traveling to the Mosel valley and staying in Cochem for 2 nights

traveling to Köln and staying with family for 1-2 nights - our next stop is Berlin and we are thinking of flying instead of taking the train...

flying to Berlin and staying for 2-3 nights (depending on above flight/train option)

traveling to Dresden for 1 night

traveling to Rothenburg with a midday stop in Nürnberg and staying in Rothenburg for 3 nights (the first day here is lost as a travel day because the train to Nürnberg is 4.5 hours and then the one to Rothenburg is 1-1.5 hours with obviously an hour or so stop in between to see Nürnberg)

then to Munich for Oktoberfest and staying in Munich for 1 night

then to Füssen and staying for 2 nights

then to Konstanz for one night (not sure how to get here from Füssen or if it is worth it time wise for 1 night... although it sounds beautiful)

then to Staufen for 2 nights

then to Alsace for 2 nights (Colmar 1 night and Strasbourg 1 night)

back to Darmstadt for an overnight before our flight back home.

There are obviously a lot of things I want to see in each place that I have omitted because I thought would just complicate this already complicated itinerary!

My questions are:

1. Is this absolutely crazy? My husband thinks so.

2. Are there any places that I have mentioned that we should be avoiding and why?

3. Are there any places where we should be going that I have left out?

4. Obviously any transportation advice (especially from Füssen to Konstanz) would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance!

Fuessen to Constance by train - take a regional train up to the main Munich-Zurich line (Kaufbueren perhaps - can't think of station name) and get off at Lindau - one of the most gorgeous cities in Germany IMO - much more so than Constanz - but you can take a ferry from Lindau after giving it a quick look over and on the other side connect with rail lines to Constanz. For any train schedule in Germany (or Europe for that matter) go to www.bahn.de - the German rail web site and the easiest i've seen to use for schedules. - there are other routes from Fuessen to Constance as well without getting off at Lindau.

Unless going to Constance for a specific reason i would stay the night in Lindau - romantic Lindau jutting out into the Bodensee and much easier to reach from Fuessen as well.

Anway if doing all those trips by train strongly consider the Germany Twin Railpass - twin meaning two folks traveling together on the train like you hopefull still will be throughout the trip! It gives you a maximum of 10 days of unlimited rail travel throughout Germany and even to Salzburg, Austria and Basel, Switzerland - just hop on any of the zillions of trains anytime with very few exceptions - ICE Sprinter Trains and Thalys trains that you will never encounter if your tentative itinerary.

Anyway for loads of great info on Germany by train and railpasses (and other options like Lander Cards and online SPAR fares) i always spotlight these Wunderbar sites - www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com - download the latter's free and superb IMO European Planning & Rail Guide's chapter on Germany and German trains - with suggested itineraries, etc. the latter site's home page also has a link to the www.bahn.de's English schedule page and provides several good tips on how to fully use this fantastic site that are not apparent at first encounter.

A 10-day (within one month - flexipass - use the days when you want - calendar day for unlimited trains, including S-Bahns in many large cities as also on the K-D boats thru the Rhine gorge costs $329 p.p. on a Twin Pass in 2nd class or about $33/day or about say 23-25 euros a day - compared to normal walk up fares those are astounding prices - full fare for Frankfurt to Berlin would be about 100 euros along - you are flying but you could hop the train in just a few hours now for $33 p.p. and end up in the city center not at some remote airport - anyway if you do all you trips by trains - even though they are fairly short the more days on a pass you use the cheaper it becomes. Like extra days on a Germany Pass over the minimum are just $20 p.p. a day or so.

And trains in Germany go everywhere - even smaller towns and villages and do so in frightening frequencies - several times an hour often. With a pass just show up and hop on the next train - makes it so easy - never going to a ticket window, etc.

Frankfurt-Darmstadt for 2 nights

(Definitely don't buy a railpass day for this. It's only a short trip.)

Rhine Valley and Bacharch for 2 nights

Mosel valley and Cochem for 2 nights

(Nice villages. Cochem is terrific, but I'd suggest St. Goar over Bacharach - it's better located for daytrips elsewhere, has ferry service across the river to a train station on the other side, and lies in a more scenic part of the valley, with 3 castles visible from town. It's easy to visit Bacharach from St. Goar.)


traveling to Köln and staying with family for 1-2 nights -

flying to Berlin and staying for 2-3 nights (depending on above flight/train option)

Dresden for 1 night

Rothenburg with a midday stop in Nürnberg and staying in Rothenburg for 3 nights

(May be a bit long in Rothenburg but a daytrip to Würzburg or to Weikersheim might be nice.)

Munich for Oktoberfest for 1 night

(Very unlikely you'll find a room at any price. Suggest you skip it or stay elsewhere - take the train to Augsburg, check in, then train to Munich and back to Augsburg that night.

Füssen for 2 nights

Konstanz for one night

(Agree that Lindau is a much better option.)

then to Staufen for 2 nights

(Why? It's unremarkable. I'd stay somewhere that's really in the Black Forest instead. Try the more scenic Hinterzarten or Titisee if you enjoy hiking. Watch out for ticks.)

then to Alsace for 2 nights (Colmar 1 night and Strasbourg 1 night.)


One-night stays can be some trouble. Head to Strasbourg for the day, stow bags, and then on to Colmar for the night - stay 2 nights there.

back to Darmstadt for an overnight before our flight back home.

Transportation: The German rail twinpass for 10 days is definitely easiest. It's possible to shave about $100 each off that by piecing together deals on specific legs. But it's very complicated and I think I would get the twinpass and then if you have extra travel days, take advantage of the specific deals available for the legs below on the regional trains (not the long-distance, high-speed trains.) I've given you the cost per person with 2 travelers and the type of deal for each leg.

(7 Euros)FRA-D'stadt

(10) (on a mini-group ticket) St. Goar to Cochem

Do Cologne-Berlin by train, 4+ hours (you'll waste more time on air travel.)

(14) Bavaria ticket Rothenburg-Augsburg-Munich-Augsburg

(14) Bavaria ticket Ausburg-Füssen

(14) Bavaria ticket Füssen-Lindau

(14) Baden-Württemberg ticket Lindau-Hinterzarten

(0) Konus karte (free travel for staying in a Black Forest village - get it from your hosts) Hinterzarten-French border town of Kehl on your way to Strasbourg. You can hop on other trains with this ticket during your stay too.

Honeymoon splurge in Cochem:
http://www.thorschenke.de/en/index.htm

It sounds like you picked great locations but for me it is far too rushed. We spent 13 nights for our honeymoon last June in Germany after 2 weeks in Italy. Here are the days we stayed places:
St Goar, (4 nights) with daytrips to Burg Eltz, Cochem, and down the Rhine
Munich (5 nights) with daytrips to Dachau and Nuremberg
Berlin (4 nights)

We had a single one night stop in Italy on our month trip and really would not recommend them, too much time wasted getting to your hotel and unpacking, packing get back on the train, etc

I would agree with your husband: it is a bit crazy, it is your honeymoon and you need some relaxing in there! The trains in Germany are great and on time though.

Thank you so much for all of your input!

I was trying to avoid 1-night stops. I was thinking of removing the stop in Dresden altogether. The main reason I wanted to go there was to go to the Saxon-Switzerland National Park. However, I don't think it is worth the stop if we are only there for 1.5 days. But I really think my husband and I would enjoy it and it would be a nice break from little towns. If I added a night or two there I would have to take them away from somewhere else. If I was to remove a leg, any suggestions of which one would be best? Maybe a place that is just really similar to the rest or that is way too touristy (although I know some of the places we are going are touristy!)?

Also I was thinking it would be better to stay outside of Munich, if anything just for cost effectiveness. I was at first considering just staying in Fuessen for an extra night and taking a day trip into Munich for some Oktoberfest fun but then realized it was a 2 hour train in and back. My husband thought this was too long... especially for the way back when we might be a few beers in! I can't say that I disagree. Is Augsberg a better choice with regards to transportation times in and out or even just convenience? If it is relatively similar it might be better to stay in Fuessen just so that we are in the same place for an extra night, instead of another one-night stay in another town.

What do you think?

Don't miss Burg Eltz!

If you don't have a room in Munich for Oktoberfest already, you will have stay somewhere else (like Augsburg, which is nice and worth seeing), or pay a ridiculous rate at those hotels in Munich which still have vacancies.

I stayed once in Garmisch and day tripped into Oktoberfest - saved a ton of money on a hotel and actually had a neat typical German family-run chalet-style guesthouse with huge breakfast included. About an hour by train to Munich - Garmisch is a great base from which to tackle the Zugspitze, Germany's highest mountain and also to hop to gems like Mittenwald, Oberammergau and the fabled Etal Monastery - all can be done by train.

I agree with PalenQ. Garmisch is a beautiful place to stay and the Zugspitze could be a wonderful honeymoon memory for the both of you. Have a wonderful time!

We were both really interested in the Zugspitze. I will look into Garmisch, it sounds like a great option!

Thank you for all of your help! I'm getting so excited!

Personally I'd shorten the stay in Rothenburg and stay in Nuremberg instead, maybe with a day trip to Bamberg.

Berlin is worth a trip, but it's out of the way. I'd consider leaving Berlin and Dresden out of your trip since the days you'd save would make the rest of the trip way more relaxed.

If you like wine, you could think for example about Deidesheim on your way back to Frankfurt. It's in the heart of one of the wine growing regions with many very good vineyards. September is also the time of the new wine which is traditionally eaten with Zwiebelkuchen.

You can search for Weinfest or Weinkerwe. These regional festivals are something to see. The wine is served in half liter mugs and even if you buy a Schorle (mixture of wine and sparkling water), it's normally wine with a hint of water. It can get quite wild.

Thank you Hans! I will definitely check those out. I was hoping to hit a wine festival! We have talked about omitting Berlin and Dresden because they are so far out of the way. I guess I was just thinking - who goes to Germany and doesn't go to Berlin? But spending about 2 days there doesn't really allow you to really see the city either.

I'm considering a few other options and will repost with an updated itinerary soon!

Thank you!

Hey what does anyone know about Lauterbach?

Also... my mother visited a smoke house in Oldenberg and had the whole smoked eel and schnapps experience and said it was incredible. However, Oldenberg is no where near anywhere we are going. Are there other smokehouses out there that would offer a similar experience closer to the southern and western parts of Germany where we are traveling?

Lauterbach: it's on my places-yet-to-see list. It's on the Fachwerkstrasse ("Half-timbered building Road") and the photos look fetching.

"I was hoping to hit a wine festival!"

There are wine festivals and markets every weekend in the Rhine villages; check your dates:

http://www.welterbe-mittelrheintal.d....php?id=49&L=3

As already mentioned - I think it would be good to stay in Nuremberg and do Rothenberg as a day trip. We did that when we were in Germany and it worked out great. Nuremberg is a neat town and it is also a rail hub, so great for day trips.

And I do think the itinerary is too rushed. I'd be inclined to leave Berlin for another trip. Like you said, it is the outlyer geographically and you'll only have a couple days there. Alternatively, you could look into domestic flights and see if you can save some time by flying rather than taking the train.

I too found Nurnberg to be surprisingly nice - great old town center bisected by a river if i recall right but to me the absolute highlight was what is called the 'the most intact collection of Third Reich edificies in Germany' - in suburban Nurnberg - the old Nazi Parade Grounds, including the stadium in whose box Hitler was often photographed reviewing thousands of goose stepping troops on the miles long parade ground - whose marble or granite (?) blocks are still there - there are other stadia as well. Right near an S-Bahn station a few miles south of the main town.

ok. So this is my revised hopefully more romantic and relaxing Honeymoon itinerary!

Fly into Frankfurt

2 nights in Darmstadt with family

3 nights in St Goar

2 nights in Köln with family

4 nights in Grainau (or maybe Hohenschwangau, Füssen or Garmisch depending on accommodation $$) Main focus here is obviously the castles and also the Zugspitze. I have decided to forgo Munich and Oktoberfest (it doesn't sound very romantic anyway)

3 nights in Lindau (or maybe Meersburg - again accommodations)

3 nights in Freiburg

3 nights in Alsace

2 nights in either Cochem or Trier

back to Darmstadt for last night to say goodbyes

So how did I do?

It is amazing how just cutting a few places added a lot of extra time to others. I also didn't realize how stressed the idea of the trip was making me. Now when I think about the places we are going I feel excited but relaxed instead of anxious like I was before.

Thank you so much for everyone's advice and patience with me!!! I will be sure to make a trip report when I return!