willit

Firstly, if you have not already done so, Email Homelidays with details of your stay, what went wrong, what you feel the owners should have done to rectify it, where you think you have been mislead (if you feel the homelidays description is misleading).

It is unlikely that you will benefit from this, but Homelidays would presumably get back to the owners about your concerns. If other people were to complain about the same apartment, then it might be removed from the site.

As for "no more replies please" , I understand your sentiments and reasons for asking this, but it really isn't the way discussion boards, and Fodors in particular works. Any member of the board is free to add there 2p worth.

Holly_uncasdewar

"2 things I am going to try. To ask the owner to offer a weeks stay free of cost anytime between April and October..."

What exactly is it that you think Neopatrick is misunderstanding? I think he made some excellent points. Was the place too horrid to stay in, or was it not? It would be okay it it was free? You then say no, not for you, but for younger people. ???

janisj

Afraid you don't gert the say-so re who can and can't post here. Just ain't the way thing work . . .

Also - NP is totally correct as Holly explains - you ARE asking for a free week in a place you say is totally uninhabitable.

And - even IF things were as ghastly as you describe why did you add to your woes by cancelling the car and booking new flights??? Could you not simply have gone to a hotel or rented a different villa and not had penalties for all your transport? Heck - I'd have bought some cheap kitchen stuff if theirs was too grotty, and waited for them to fix the heat (if it was indeed out of order)

Since check-in was probably in the late afternoon, you were there less than 18 hours - unless there is a LOT more to the story, it sounds like you totally over reacted.

I've rented several self-catering places in the UK that did not have the best kitchen equipment -- but I didn't throw a hissy fit and go home early.

NeoPatrick

I guess the truth really hurts sometimes doesn't it?

I've read and re-read every post several times. Is there anyone here who doesn't see the irony in asking for a free week's stay in a place that is totally "uninhabitable"? Certainly both Holly and janis fully understand what I'm saying, and I'm guessing that most other readers can as well. As to the idea of not staying there themselves, but renting it out to someone else -- surely they're kidding. They are angry about being "taken", but they're willing to actually get a free week at this "dump" then rent it out to someone else and let them get stuck with it. Seriously?

Sorry, srao, this entire episode is simply too bizarre for words.

NeoPatrick

Oh, and by the way, when we arrived at our rental apartment in Amsterdam for a week this summer, I couldn't get the TV to work at all. The owner discovered that there was a problem with the cable, but the cable company wouldn't be able to fix it for three days, and he'd be gone. We had no TV at all for the full week. Did it bother me? Not particularly. I'd have liked a TV, and I suppose we could have thrown a temper tantrum or demanded a refund, but that never occurred to me. S__T happens when you rent. We just went with the flow and had a great time. But then I don't travel to watch TV.

Spending 4 hours to try to fix it, would have seemed like going above and beyond the call to me -- even if they were unsuccessful.

izzie2

I have a similar problem, only my apartment was with VRBO and in Paris. The apartment was not as advertised and we are trying to get some or all of our money refunded. Because of the low ceilngs my boyfriend (only 6 feet tall) hit his head coming out of the bathroom after forgetting to duck, almost knocking him on the floor and ended up with a big bump on his head! There was not even a phone to contact the owner, nor did we have a contact number.

The bed was not fit for sleeping, there was no place to put our clothes, nor a comfortable place to sit. Water leaked into the kitchen cubbard underneath the sink unto the dishes (the only place to store them). The tv was unwatchable. It was advertised to have a patio table and chairs, there were none. It was next to the trash room so we were always annoyed with people going in to throw their trash in the big bins and we began to feel like we were living in a trash room as well!

Our trip was for a big birthday celebration and we tried not to let it ruin things but finally, enough was enough and we found a hotel, (not easy to do because of Rugby finals) and checked out 2 days early... LOVED Le Belmont Hotel by the way!!

When we returned home we contacted the owner who was very flippant and patronising. She said Paris is Paris, people come here to see the sights, sorry for the cultural misunderstanding. She didn't even care if a tennant had been injured!

This made me even more angry, so I contacted VRBO. They sent me a dispute form which I emailed back. Well, after much emailing back and forth, the owner made VRBO believe the apartment is SO much better than it is and VRBO said that this was a "he said she said" situation now. They said the ceilings are within the French regulation, no one else has complained, they have a record of my complaint and a 2 strike rule. They apologized that the outcome was not satisfactory to me and left it at that! I even had pictures to show them!!

Even though VRBO is Vacation Rentals By Owner you can sometimes deal with an agent, as many of you know, which we did. We've contacted her too but now she is no longer the agent. She did tell me in an email that the owner may offer one of her other apartments as settlement. I've seen pictures them and can't believe the are owned by the same person! But now that this has gone so far I don't think the owner will be willing to do that.

The only thing I think I can do at this point is to post a negative comment (which the owner does not have to post on the listing), and then post it on every travel site there is! My boyfriend is not willing to give up yet and feels the agent is responsible since we payed her the money, he thinks we should still be dealing with her. And he NEVER wants to stay in a Paris apartment again!

Good luck srao!

beaupeep

Three years ago my husband and I decided to rent an apt in Rome to save money on hotels. The place was a disaster. One room that was so narrow you could stretch out both arms and touch opposite walls. This was the kitchen - there was no living room. A ladder that was hanging on the wall was how you got up to the mattress above the kitchen area. This place had a pipe running along the mattress and was always damp and cold. The only window in the entire place was a transom at the foot of the mattress. We suspected the apt was once a trash room. The shower was in the toilet area, not unusual but there were no shower curtains and the toilet paper had to be removed otherwise it would get waterlogged. And as for kitchen equipment, there were no utensils with which to eat, none whatsoever. We won't even get into how filthy it was.

So what did we do? We went into McDonald's and asked for plastic knives and forks and spent most of our time making sure we were anywhere but that place that we have dubbed "The Hole." And we still laugh about it to this day. Had I decided to turn it into a crusade to get back my money (because believe me it was not described even remotely accurately), I would have gotten stressed out, angry and bitter. The fact that I can even take a vacation in Rome is already a plus when you stop and think of friends and family with serious illnesses and all the injustice and poverty in the world. I guess one decides what they choose to expend their energy on.

michelleNYC

My comment goes to the fact you want to request a week for free as "compensation" for your troubles and then you want to turn around and sell that week on Ebay. Not only is that risky, but most likely not permitted by the owner and should he find out, you could possibly find yourself in a whole load of trouble. Plus, do *you* want to find yourself on the receiving end of complaints from the person who rents the place from *you*?? You're not thinking.

SusanSDG

Coriouser and curiouser-yes, I think we did need NeoPatrick's "cross examination" as it wasn't till afterward that you clarified that you left after one noght, giving less than 24 hours for anyone to address your concerns. The only one who breached a contract was you.

And your "health" concerns don't enhance your credibility. She "caught a chill"? Did she have a case of the vapours as well?
Your husband is sick because of fear of rusty pans.

You wanted to see this beautiful country so much that you went home immediately? You can buy a lot of pans for what you spent to change your plans.

I've been in disppointing flats before, but you gave up your bargaining position when you left the flat and the country before anyone had the chance to try to help you.

SusanSDG

Curiouser and curiouser-yes, I think we did need NeoPatrick's "cross examination" as it wasn't till afterward that you clarified that you left after one night, giving less than 24 hours for anyone to address your concerns. The only one who breached a contract was you.

And your "health" concerns don't enhance your credibility. She "caught a chill"? Did she have a case of the vapours as well?
Your husband is sick because of fear of rusty pans?

You wanted to see this beautiful country so much that you went home immediately? You can buy a lot of pans for what you spent to change your plans.

I've been in disappointing flats before, but you gave up your bargaining position when you left the flat and the country before anyone had the chance to try to help you.

NeoPatrick

By the way, we've now heard that the villa (yes, it is a detached house/villa, not an apartment) cost them 695 euro (I assume per week, not for the full two weeks), although looking at the prices on the website, perhaps that WAS for the full two weeks? In any case, let's just assume that meant per week. That's less than 100 euro per night. Has anyone looked at the link to the actual apartment? It was just constructed in 2003. It has 3 bedrooms -- sleeps up to 8 people, terrace, and is over 2100 square feet interior space -- that's immense! Please show me a place even remotely like this for under 100 euro per night in "European standard". Please!! I'll agree that pictures may not show everything, but that is one helluva lot of villa for under 100 euros per night!

janisj

NP - that is what I thought when I looked at the photos. Looks amazing and I'd stay there for that money even if I had to re-furnish the whole bloody kitchen

A similar sized/furnished place in France or Italy would cost several times what srao paid.

NeoPatrick

I took another look at the website for the villa. It lists the price from December 27 to May 30 as 380 euros a week or 540 for 2 weeks. Suddenly I suspect that srao WAS paying 695 for TWO weeks, not just for one, since they clearly were there in the "winter", not the summer when the prices go up. That means that this 3 bedroom, 2100 sq. ft. "luxuriously furnished" villa was less than 50 euros per night!

W0W!!! That's all I can say. WOW!!


http://www.homelidays.com/hammamet/h...lla29766en.htm

LHS

bookmarking

Sue_xx_yy

srao

Since you are new here, you will be unfamiliar with the resident personalities. I urge you to not take some of the more passionate responses personally - many of your respondents would express themselves as passionately about what is the correct type of pizza to order. Rather than take offense, take heart - at least you can't complain your respondents are indifferent to your plight!

On the subject of feelings, you are also entitled to yours. To you, you didn't get value for your money, and worse, the holiday was a disaster, a complete write-off, such that only a refund of your money would make you start to feel better. That's fair, we're all entitled to our feelings.

Unfortunately in the legal, as opposed to emotional, realm, these things are rarely so straightforward as might be desired. In this your respondents, passionate though they might be, are correct.

The problem is that the market value of the things you felt were substandard (the heating, the dishes, even the availability of a sound dishwasher) is in all probability dwarfed by the market value of the actual accomodation - the real estate, the actual villa. I fully accept that in your view, you feel ripped off. However, in quantitative, as opposed to subjective terms, a judge might well feel you got most of what was contracted for: access to a roof over your head with beds of some sort for a week or two. Unless the country in question inspects and verifies independently the standard of your lodging according to some objective scale (as is done in Germany, for example) it could be a really, really hard sell to make the claim stick that the lodging was below standard, since one's own personal standard, or the standard of accomodation one encountered while visiting other countries, won't necessarily be taken as relevant. So the argument for a complete refund, or a week's alternate accomodation, or whatever, would likely be a hard one to make - even if you could get access to a small claims court in Tunisia. Even in a best case scenario, such refund as you might get would be offset by your costs and stress.

Please understand: I'm not dismissing your experience. Things like heating can indeed make a major difference to the enjoyability of one's holiday, but alas, 'enjoyability' is extremely difficult to enforce as a contract item. This is why your respondents are, notwithstanding their passionate form of expression right to emphasize that working with such material as one has been given is often one's best option. Note, I don't say this is the *just* option, but the best option given the way things developed. I understand your longing for justice, but those scales are expensive if not outright elusive. Hence my exhortation to be pragmatic.

Next time, try to do the most efficient thing within your own, as opposed to someone else's control: open all the windows and doors, and try and flush some of that 15 degree outside heat into the villa. Bundle up in such clothes as you bought - especially hats and socks - at night. Buy more acceptable dishes (cheap ones, or take them home as souvenirs or gifts). Use imported bottled water as drinking water (including water used to brush teeth) and if necessary buy a good kettle or pot in which you boil all dish-washing water for a good ten minutes - this will kill the waterborne bacteria that causes the tummy problems. (These are good practices, along with the old adage, boil it, peel it, or forget it - to follow in many countries in any case.)

In many parts of the world, a 'manana' (tomorrow) attitude applies to repairs. Ergo, bring a few simple repair things yourself - duct tape to mend holes in screens or mosquito netting, etc.

I'm not saying this is what you should have to do, only that it might be the most efficient means of saving the situation.

LoveItaly

Perhaps I am missing something but when looking at the website and reading under the Amenities list I do not see any mention of kitchen pots, pans, dishes, glasses, eating utensils etc. The appliances are listed however. Heat is listed but even in Italy problems do not get taken care of "overnight". And that is the understatement of the year.

srao

Dear Sue XX YY,

that was kindest, objective and most thoughtful reply I have had so far. Your discerning and empathetic words were warming. Thank you for this. We did follow everything that you suggested ( re opening windows , blankets piled up- we slept together in the lounge to warm each other) when we were there anyway, and we usually do follow hygiene procedures carefully.

Yes, I can see that although I may feel the injustice, it may not stand as a legitimate claim. We have decided that we will speak with Homelidays and see what they have to say. If nothing comes of it- we will write this off as a one off " bad travel experience" experience. We have stayed in Spain, Cyprus, France, Canada, US with good experiences. So one bad one is perhaps fair statistic.

What is amazing though, in this forum, is the ability of people to remove phrases and words out of the context of real life personal experience, out of the cultural and social environment in which it occurred- and break it down to something so mechanistic, cold and logical.

Worse still is to have people mock and question illnesses. (Note to Ms SusanSDG) We have it, we live and suffer through it and we face the pain of it. I say that sitting behind a computer passing judgements on someone's personal experience is easy - understanding what someone has lived through, in the totality of the experience, takes compassion, breadth of understanding and empathy.

I thank all those who have shown humaneness, respect and given up their valuable time to answer my question. I am truly grateful for your thoughts and ideas.

For those who wish to rent this apartment - good luck .

NeoPatrick

In other words.
Thanks for those of you who agree with me. And raspberries to anyone who doesn't.

A lot of suppositions were made here, and most of them (if not all) were logical ones, including the idea that you only paid less than 50 euros a night for this huge modern villa while you referred to that as "price charged was European standard". Or that despite two people spending over 4 hours with you your first evening trying to fix things, you feel that no attempt was made to correct the problems and apparently you decided THEN that you wouldn't stay past the night (since you say the caretaker returned the next morning already knowing you were leaving). It's nice that you choose to ignore those issues/questions and just continue to say it was all unbearable. I think a lot of us have a much better feel for what happened here than you give us credit for.

NeoPatrick

Oh, and good luck with your hopes to get the owner to give you a free week and selling it off to someone who is less particular than you. That really is a "clever" idea.

jimena11330

Hello,

I'm not sure you need more answers... but I've been a homelidays client for over 5 years and I must say in Europe, they are the best on the market.

If you hear bad stories about them, it's only because the number of properties advertised on their site is very high... so obviously more chances to get one or two bad reports a year ! normal !

Regarding your heating story, I'm sorry to say it has nothing to do with homelidays, but with the owner.

If you have contacted him and he didn't do anything to heat the place, then he should give you some money back.

But if you haven't called him, or if you haven't left him the time to sort the problem out...then I think it's your problem, sorry !

But keep using homelidays,they have very good rentals... including mines !

Hasta luego,
Christine