Help with Spain trip
Aug 3rd, 2009, 08:51 PM
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Help with Spain trip
Have got most of it all planned, but need some help. Spending 3 nights in Madrid, 1 night in Toledo, take the train to Toledo and then rent a car and drive to Segovia. Should we stay in Segovia or Perdraza for 2 nights? We will then drive to Lerma for 2 nights, 2 nights in Bilbao and 4 nights in Barcelona. We want to see Northern Spain so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Are we spending too much time in some cities or not enough time in others? Is there anything we are missing and should include? thanks to all.
Aug 4th, 2009, 02:32 AM
#2
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,047
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Madrid, Toledo and Barcelona section of you itinerary make sense. Given the number of attractions in Segovia (Cathedral, Alcazar, a dozen churches..), I would stay in Segovia or near Segovia. BTW, Avila (a completely walled medieval city) is also a sight close to Segovia.
Think about staying in Bilbao - it a a heavily industrialized city and gained attractiveness mainly because of the Guggenheim museum (which requires just one or two hours to visit). I have just spent 10 days in Northern Spain and found both the Atlantic coast and the mountains in the hinterland very attractive, so you may consider to stay either on the beach or in the countryside - there are beautiful mansions which have been converted into hotels. An alternative is La Rioja (a one-hour drive from Bilbao). There you find some cute old towns, famous wineries and another Gehry building which is almost more spectacular than the Guggenheim: the Hotel and Winery Marques de Riscal in the picturesque village Elciego. A base in Rioja makes also sense because it is closer to Barcelona.
Think about staying in Bilbao - it a a heavily industrialized city and gained attractiveness mainly because of the Guggenheim museum (which requires just one or two hours to visit). I have just spent 10 days in Northern Spain and found both the Atlantic coast and the mountains in the hinterland very attractive, so you may consider to stay either on the beach or in the countryside - there are beautiful mansions which have been converted into hotels. An alternative is La Rioja (a one-hour drive from Bilbao). There you find some cute old towns, famous wineries and another Gehry building which is almost more spectacular than the Guggenheim: the Hotel and Winery Marques de Riscal in the picturesque village Elciego. A base in Rioja makes also sense because it is closer to Barcelona.
Aug 4th, 2009, 05:45 AM
#3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To answer your question re Segovia vs Pedraza:
Pedraza is small & loveley but very very quiet.
I went during the week and it was practically deserted. I had been forewarned by Maribel, but really expected a bit more in the way of people on the street & shops open etc. Many people working in Pedraza do not actually love there it turned out.
If you are going on the weekend it will be a different story.
The peace & quiet was good for us, for a number of reasons I needed to rest & we enjoyed just hanging out & watching the storks & of course eating at Yantar. We stayed at the Hospederia de Santo Domingo & loved it.But again, peaceful almost surreal quiet.
I also stayed a couple of nights in Segovia at the Infanta Isabel. I thought the convenience of that location fantastic.
Lots more to see of course.
We also drove to La Granja which can be done from both locations.
I cannot say I would have cut my stay in Pedraza short because we loved it & needed that rest. But speaking in general, for a weekday stay 2 nights in Pedraza may too much for most travelers if they are looking to "see and do stuff."
Pedraza is small & loveley but very very quiet.
I went during the week and it was practically deserted. I had been forewarned by Maribel, but really expected a bit more in the way of people on the street & shops open etc. Many people working in Pedraza do not actually love there it turned out.
If you are going on the weekend it will be a different story.
The peace & quiet was good for us, for a number of reasons I needed to rest & we enjoyed just hanging out & watching the storks & of course eating at Yantar. We stayed at the Hospederia de Santo Domingo & loved it.But again, peaceful almost surreal quiet.
I also stayed a couple of nights in Segovia at the Infanta Isabel. I thought the convenience of that location fantastic.
Lots more to see of course.
We also drove to La Granja which can be done from both locations.
I cannot say I would have cut my stay in Pedraza short because we loved it & needed that rest. But speaking in general, for a weekday stay 2 nights in Pedraza may too much for most travelers if they are looking to "see and do stuff."
Aug 4th, 2009, 08:08 AM
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you all so much. Great advice. We will be in Perdraza (Hospederia de Santo Domingo)over the weekend, Friday and Saturday night, does that make a difference or should we still stay in Segovia and do a day trip to Perdraza and avila? Where would you suggest we stay other than Bilbao (Sheraton Hotel) so that we can go see the Guggenheim? We were thinking about Margues De Riscal, the Winery that Gehry designed is it worth the cost. We are flying out of Bilbao to Barcelona, it makes better usage of our time than driving. We are also staying at the Acta Atrium Palace in Barcelona and the Me in Madrid on Maribel recommendation, any thoughts? Again, thank you so much for all your help, it is really appreciated.
Aug 4th, 2009, 10:46 AM
#6
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,930
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
morningstar,
If you plan to be in Pedraza over the weekend, you'll find the town flooded with day trippers from Madrid up to do the ritual "roast lamb feast" at the local roasting taverns, so I would certainly make a reservation for dinner on Fri. night and lunch on Sat. Lovely Belén and her companions at the Hospedería can handle this for you, if you decide to keep your reservation.
Whether to base in Segovia and day trip to Avila or to spend two nights at the magical Hospedería is a tough call, especially if you haven't ever visited Segovia or Avila. Amsdon's explanation of the differences is spot on. Our last visit with friends (who adored the Hospedería) was on a weekend, which made a great deal of difference. But we had already toured Segovia and Avila with them on a prior trip.
While in Madrid we dined with clients at the ME. I still love the hotel, but the restaurant is not at its best on Sat. nights with the crowds. I would stay there but dine elsewhere.
In Barcelona we switched our reservations at the last minute from the Acta (no longer an Apsa) Atrium Palace because we found a highly advantageous rate at the Derby Granados 83, where we were very happy. Not as handy for walking to sightseeing as the A.P. though, but we enjoy staying in the Left Eixample. I didn't get a chance to check on the A.P. since it has changed hands. Sorry.
In Bilbao, I would suggest that you stay at the Gran Domine or Miró across from the Guggen rather than the Sheraton, unless you plan to redeem Starwood points. The Sheraton now seems a bit "off center" and not as handy, although there is construction work directing in front of the Gran Domine, which should (???) be finished by Oct. (says the staff).
Since the drive from Pedraza to Lerma is so very short, I wouldn't plan on an overnight at the Parador there unless you specifically plan to tour a Ribera del Duero winery or two. Two nights in Lerma would be too much, I think. I would add those nights to Northern Spain, specifically the Rioja.
The drive from Pedraza to Laguardia, the capital of the Rioja Alavesa, or to Haro, the capital of the Rioja Alta, is an easy one.
Whether or not the Gehry-designed Hotel for the Marqués de Riscal is worth the cost is a very subjective matter. A poster, cherrybomb, stayed there in May, so perhaps she can give you her honest opinion.
To me it wouldn't be worth the cost under normal circumstances unless the rate were very advantageous. The Villa de Laguardia, a 4 star, has just opened a Wine & Oil spa, and rates always come in there much lower than at Riscal in Elciego, just 5 min. away
.
We met a couple at the López de Heredia winery who were very happy with their stay at the "old Parador like" Hotel Los Agustinos in Haro, but I still prefer the medieval, walled bastide town of Laguardia as a base for winery visits, as long as I have a car.
The drive from Laguardia ) to Bilbao will take about 90 minutes. From Haro, a bit over an hour.
Hope this helps.
If you plan to be in Pedraza over the weekend, you'll find the town flooded with day trippers from Madrid up to do the ritual "roast lamb feast" at the local roasting taverns, so I would certainly make a reservation for dinner on Fri. night and lunch on Sat. Lovely Belén and her companions at the Hospedería can handle this for you, if you decide to keep your reservation.
Whether to base in Segovia and day trip to Avila or to spend two nights at the magical Hospedería is a tough call, especially if you haven't ever visited Segovia or Avila. Amsdon's explanation of the differences is spot on. Our last visit with friends (who adored the Hospedería) was on a weekend, which made a great deal of difference. But we had already toured Segovia and Avila with them on a prior trip.
While in Madrid we dined with clients at the ME. I still love the hotel, but the restaurant is not at its best on Sat. nights with the crowds. I would stay there but dine elsewhere.
In Barcelona we switched our reservations at the last minute from the Acta (no longer an Apsa) Atrium Palace because we found a highly advantageous rate at the Derby Granados 83, where we were very happy. Not as handy for walking to sightseeing as the A.P. though, but we enjoy staying in the Left Eixample. I didn't get a chance to check on the A.P. since it has changed hands. Sorry.
In Bilbao, I would suggest that you stay at the Gran Domine or Miró across from the Guggen rather than the Sheraton, unless you plan to redeem Starwood points. The Sheraton now seems a bit "off center" and not as handy, although there is construction work directing in front of the Gran Domine, which should (???) be finished by Oct. (says the staff).
Since the drive from Pedraza to Lerma is so very short, I wouldn't plan on an overnight at the Parador there unless you specifically plan to tour a Ribera del Duero winery or two. Two nights in Lerma would be too much, I think. I would add those nights to Northern Spain, specifically the Rioja.
The drive from Pedraza to Laguardia, the capital of the Rioja Alavesa, or to Haro, the capital of the Rioja Alta, is an easy one.
Whether or not the Gehry-designed Hotel for the Marqués de Riscal is worth the cost is a very subjective matter. A poster, cherrybomb, stayed there in May, so perhaps she can give you her honest opinion.
To me it wouldn't be worth the cost under normal circumstances unless the rate were very advantageous. The Villa de Laguardia, a 4 star, has just opened a Wine & Oil spa, and rates always come in there much lower than at Riscal in Elciego, just 5 min. away
.
We met a couple at the López de Heredia winery who were very happy with their stay at the "old Parador like" Hotel Los Agustinos in Haro, but I still prefer the medieval, walled bastide town of Laguardia as a base for winery visits, as long as I have a car.
The drive from Laguardia ) to Bilbao will take about 90 minutes. From Haro, a bit over an hour.
Hope this helps.
Aug 4th, 2009, 12:47 PM
#7
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Welcome home Maribel! Boy it's loney without you here.
I personally would love two nights in Pedraza again especially to see the town on the weekend.
But Morningstar I would not forfeit Segovia. As Maribel says a hard call. I am not a fan of one nighters, but it may work in your case just don't really unpack.
Now that Codex is closed I wanted to dine at La Olma (in addition to Yantar of course) Even better, I am STILL planning on going to the butcher shop at Meson Gonzlez per your rec......maybe next year.
Morningstar I hope you get to see "Storky" and his mate. Let us know if they had any new chicks.
I personally would love two nights in Pedraza again especially to see the town on the weekend.
But Morningstar I would not forfeit Segovia. As Maribel says a hard call. I am not a fan of one nighters, but it may work in your case just don't really unpack.
Now that Codex is closed I wanted to dine at La Olma (in addition to Yantar of course) Even better, I am STILL planning on going to the butcher shop at Meson Gonzlez per your rec......maybe next year.
Morningstar I hope you get to see "Storky" and his mate. Let us know if they had any new chicks.
Aug 4th, 2009, 02:58 PM
#8
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would stay one night in Segovia. But I also would spend a day in Pedraza which I most loved for the nearby peaceful hiking trails. As far as northern spain is concerned, I love the very tiny hamlet of Axpe where you can find the most amazing restaurant Etxebarri (in the most unlikely place because this hamlet is microscopic.) I also love the Asturias area especially the city of Gijon and Oviedo.
Hope this helps.
Jeanine
www.jthetravelauthority.com
Hope this helps.
Jeanine
www.jthetravelauthority.com
Aug 4th, 2009, 03:21 PM
#9
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,930
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
morningstar,
You shouldn't forfeit Segovia if you haven't visited. We did do it as a day trip from Pedraza, but only because we've overnighted in Segovia many times before.
Although Asturias doesn't fit within your already planned itinerary this time, do put it and Cantabria on your list for a future trip to Northern Spain.
If you don't want to spend the 2 nights in the Rioja (which I think is a really good, even perfect fit given the itinerary you have planned), you could, I suppose, make the longer drive from Pedraza to Bilbao, then for 2 nights explore the gorgeous Unesco Biosphere Reserve of the Urdaibai before returning to Bilbao to fly to BCN.
We just spent a blissfully peaceful week there, meeting up with poster mikelg and lovely family in Lekeitio and exploring both sides of the coast, from Gernika to Bakio to Sopelana to Plentzia to the west and to Elantxove, Ea and Lekeitio to the east.
I've also stayed in the "valley of silence" in teeny tiny Axpe at the simple but cozy Mendi Goikoa for the sole purpose of dining at Etxebarri. Truly amazing dining experience, forever memorable. And easily reachable from Bilbao or the Urdaibai.
But if you do decide on a Rioja stay, which makes very good sense on the way from Castilla-León to Bizkaia, I've just updated my Rioja file if you want to take a look at www.maribelsguides.com
amsdon,
How about going to Mesón Gónzalez together some day?
You shouldn't forfeit Segovia if you haven't visited. We did do it as a day trip from Pedraza, but only because we've overnighted in Segovia many times before.
Although Asturias doesn't fit within your already planned itinerary this time, do put it and Cantabria on your list for a future trip to Northern Spain.
If you don't want to spend the 2 nights in the Rioja (which I think is a really good, even perfect fit given the itinerary you have planned), you could, I suppose, make the longer drive from Pedraza to Bilbao, then for 2 nights explore the gorgeous Unesco Biosphere Reserve of the Urdaibai before returning to Bilbao to fly to BCN.
We just spent a blissfully peaceful week there, meeting up with poster mikelg and lovely family in Lekeitio and exploring both sides of the coast, from Gernika to Bakio to Sopelana to Plentzia to the west and to Elantxove, Ea and Lekeitio to the east.
I've also stayed in the "valley of silence" in teeny tiny Axpe at the simple but cozy Mendi Goikoa for the sole purpose of dining at Etxebarri. Truly amazing dining experience, forever memorable. And easily reachable from Bilbao or the Urdaibai.
But if you do decide on a Rioja stay, which makes very good sense on the way from Castilla-León to Bizkaia, I've just updated my Rioja file if you want to take a look at www.maribelsguides.com
amsdon,
How about going to Mesón Gónzalez together some day?
Aug 4th, 2009, 08:43 PM
#14
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you all so much. Maribel, I have downloaded your guides and that has been my bible for doing this trip. The rate I got at the Atrium Palace is excellent, booked directly with the hotel and they sent me an email thanking me for my reservation and asking if there is anything they can do for me while I am Barcelona. Quite impressive, will give a report when I get back. As much as I would love to stay in Perdraza, never having been to Segovia following everyone's advice I think it is best to stay there. Two nights(really do not like one night stays if it can be avoided) so we can tour the region. Now on to Lerma, the parador was the reason but thought this would be a good location to see Burgos and Monasterio de Santo Domingo de Silsos. This could be one night if you think there is not enough to see and do in the area. Now, where to stay instead of Bilbao,(the Guggenheim is a must for us)what about Getaria/San Sebastian at the Iturregi Inn (great reviews)? or go to Santillana Del Mar. If we spend one night in or around Laguardia then we would have two nights for the Basque Country or should we do Rojas from Lerma? Any suggestions. Again, can not thank you enough for all your help.
Aug 5th, 2009, 10:27 AM
#15
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,930
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi morningstar,
I agree. Since you've never been to Segovia, best to stay there for the two nights and do the day trips to Avila AND Pedraza (you'll want to return someday, I'm sure).
The front desk staff at the Atrium Palace has always impressed me as being very professional and accommodating.
Yes, I think the Parador in Lerma should be just one night.
The rest of your itinerary is now getting a little fuzzy for me.
Could you repost your proposed itinerary so that we can all look at it?
Since you plan to fly from Bilbao to Barcelona, you won't want to venture too far from Bilbao for those two nights. What time does your flight from Bilbao to Barcelona leave?
Incidentally, I've just taken a tour of the Iturregi in Getaria, and I promise it's a wow!
The marketing director took us all around, and we were quite impressed with the soothing decor, the classy furnishings, the setting is amazing!!, surrounded by txakolí vineyards, the pool area quite inviting and like the Hospedería in Pedraza, it's a sophisticated little piece of heaven, sheer peace and tranquility.
I wouldn't do the Rioja from Lerma.
Lerma is for the Monasterio de Santo Domingo, Covarrubias, Burgos, some Ribera del Duero wineries.
The Rioja region needs its own base, and I would give it two nights minimum. Otherwise, save it for another journey and put those two nights on the Basque Country coast.
I would skip Santillana and save that area of Cantabria for another trip, but coupling it with Asturias, which makes a great pairing.
After Segovia, do you just have 4 nights before flying back to Barcelona?
I agree. Since you've never been to Segovia, best to stay there for the two nights and do the day trips to Avila AND Pedraza (you'll want to return someday, I'm sure).
The front desk staff at the Atrium Palace has always impressed me as being very professional and accommodating.
Yes, I think the Parador in Lerma should be just one night.
The rest of your itinerary is now getting a little fuzzy for me.
Could you repost your proposed itinerary so that we can all look at it?
Since you plan to fly from Bilbao to Barcelona, you won't want to venture too far from Bilbao for those two nights. What time does your flight from Bilbao to Barcelona leave?
Incidentally, I've just taken a tour of the Iturregi in Getaria, and I promise it's a wow!
The marketing director took us all around, and we were quite impressed with the soothing decor, the classy furnishings, the setting is amazing!!, surrounded by txakolí vineyards, the pool area quite inviting and like the Hospedería in Pedraza, it's a sophisticated little piece of heaven, sheer peace and tranquility.
I wouldn't do the Rioja from Lerma.
Lerma is for the Monasterio de Santo Domingo, Covarrubias, Burgos, some Ribera del Duero wineries.
The Rioja region needs its own base, and I would give it two nights minimum. Otherwise, save it for another journey and put those two nights on the Basque Country coast.
I would skip Santillana and save that area of Cantabria for another trip, but coupling it with Asturias, which makes a great pairing.
After Segovia, do you just have 4 nights before flying back to Barcelona?
Aug 6th, 2009, 01:15 AM
#16
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,683
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I´d stay in Bilbao and take it as a base for the Basque area, based on its very good communications and the proximity to the airport. If you don´t want to stay on the city centre, you may consider www.palaciourgoiti.com, close to the airport, where Maribel has stayed and it´s quite perfect for day trips.
Getaria or Zarautz are also well linked to the rest of the Basque country, close to San Sebastian (a must) and at the same distance, more or less, from the Rioja region than Bilbao.
Getaria or Zarautz are also well linked to the rest of the Basque country, close to San Sebastian (a must) and at the same distance, more or less, from the Rioja region than Bilbao.
Aug 6th, 2009, 11:24 AM
#17
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,930
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, we just had a final night at the peaceful, relaxing and lovely Palacio Urgoiti. They upgraded us to their best superior room, 202, which had a large sit out balcony. As Mikel says, it's really well situated for taking day trips because of its strategic position. In fact, up until this year, it was part of the same marketing group as the Iturregi in Getaria, and the hotel used the same interior designer.
Aug 7th, 2009, 08:41 AM
#18
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maribel and Mikelg can not thank you enough. Yes, my itinerary is getting a little fuzzy in the middle. This is where we are, arriving on 12 October for 3 nights in Madrid, 1 night in Toledo, 2 nights in Segovia, 1 night in Lerma (4 nights to be determined) 4 nights in Barcelona. We leave Bilbao at 18:35 on 23 October so we have lot's of time before we leave. So we have four days to plan around either the Basque area or another section of Northern Spain. The Palacio Urgoiti looks wonderful, any other suggestions for how to arrange these 4 nights. Thanks to everyone who has helped me plan this trip out.
Aug 7th, 2009, 09:54 AM
#19
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,930
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
morningstar,
Since you're headed north from Lerma, if this were my journey, I would spend the 4 nights on the Basque coast, to visit Bilbao and San Sebastián and points in between, such as the Urdaibai (north of Gernika this region is just quite beautiful), the fishing villages of Lekeitio, Getaria, Hondarribia.
(But having just returned from 2 weeks in the area, I realize that I'm biased about the Basque Lands, which I love).
If you'd like lodgings up on the Basque coast which are comparable to what you would find at Pedraza's Hospedería de Santo Domingo (which you'll miss), I can personally recommend the new Astoria 7 in San Sebastián, the stunning Iturregi in Guetaria or the Palacio Urgoiti, where we spent our final night. Since you've seen the photos, I don't need to convince you of the beauty of this property. (make sure you request a superior room with sit out balcony).
I think it would be a shame while on the coast not to spend time either in or near San Sebastián, the crown jewel of the Basque coast. But again, I have a slight bias....
Or...
you may want to divide those 4 nights between the Basque section of the Rioja wine country, the Rioja Alavesa, (which is the part in the Alava province of the Basque Country) and the Basque coast.
In the Rioja Alavesa, I can personally vouch for the 4-star Villa de Laguardia Wine Hotel and Wine and Oil Spa in the highly picturesque medieval, walled town of Laguardia.
(mikelg is also a fan of the Rioja Alavesa, I know).
The front desk staff does a good job of giving orientation to their guests and wine touring info.
I just checked the Marqués de Riscal and they show no availability for Oct. 19-20.
Just a few more thoughts...
Since you're headed north from Lerma, if this were my journey, I would spend the 4 nights on the Basque coast, to visit Bilbao and San Sebastián and points in between, such as the Urdaibai (north of Gernika this region is just quite beautiful), the fishing villages of Lekeitio, Getaria, Hondarribia.
(But having just returned from 2 weeks in the area, I realize that I'm biased about the Basque Lands, which I love).
If you'd like lodgings up on the Basque coast which are comparable to what you would find at Pedraza's Hospedería de Santo Domingo (which you'll miss), I can personally recommend the new Astoria 7 in San Sebastián, the stunning Iturregi in Guetaria or the Palacio Urgoiti, where we spent our final night. Since you've seen the photos, I don't need to convince you of the beauty of this property. (make sure you request a superior room with sit out balcony).
I think it would be a shame while on the coast not to spend time either in or near San Sebastián, the crown jewel of the Basque coast. But again, I have a slight bias....
Or...
you may want to divide those 4 nights between the Basque section of the Rioja wine country, the Rioja Alavesa, (which is the part in the Alava province of the Basque Country) and the Basque coast.
In the Rioja Alavesa, I can personally vouch for the 4-star Villa de Laguardia Wine Hotel and Wine and Oil Spa in the highly picturesque medieval, walled town of Laguardia.
(mikelg is also a fan of the Rioja Alavesa, I know).
The front desk staff does a good job of giving orientation to their guests and wine touring info.
I just checked the Marqués de Riscal and they show no availability for Oct. 19-20.
Just a few more thoughts...
Aug 9th, 2009, 10:37 AM
#20
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think I finally have it down, thanks to Maribel et al. I leave Lerma and spend one night at Marques de Riscal on my way to Donostia. Then spend two nights at Iriarte Jauregia to explore El Pais Vasvo and then one night in Bilbao, to see the Gu and the town and fly out the next evening at 18:35 for Barcelona. Now, does this sound like a good plan? I know this is three one night stays, which I don't like but think that this would give me the best option for a first visit.
