Carlaboe

Hello. I won a trip through my employer in America. I am planning to take my husband and two daughters ages 11 and 13 on the trip with me to Europe. We would like to travel in September but due to school starting late August we are planning the first few weeks in August or we could also travel in July.

I am interested in the following places and I was looking for suggestions or where to fly into and what is the best way to get to the destinations (route and once we arrive). I have read a great deal and I think the train is the best option, but I wanted to get some clarity.

Leave from Chicago or Minneapolis - should we fly into Paris or London? We are interested in the following places to visit in no particular order.

London for 3-4 days
Paris for 3-4 days
Switzerland 3-4 days

My husband is interested in Germany and my oldest daughter is interested in Amsterdam due to a book she read but otherwise none of us feel strongly about where the third place should be to visit. My thought is to take in some of the countryside and amazing views in Switzerland after visiting two major cities and spending many days with heavy tourist schedules. I think i am looking for some relaxation with amazing views after the busy city visits. But I am not sold on this. I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions for me as to this idea or if I should consider something else. I realize that this is a pretty open question - like when people come to America and say they have two weeks and what should they see.

The following places appeal to me in Switzerland but all for different reasons. If we are looking to relax and see just some of the country what one or two places may make the best sense for 3/4 days and then fly home from where?

I so appreciate any thoughts. And then once I get this figured out I do have questions on flats and things to do. But I will take it one thing at a time. Thanks in advance.

Carla

greg

First thing you might want to reconsider is:
>>> But I will take it one thing at a time.
While many first timers do this, this method can lead to integration problems later on that you end up paying dearly in terms of time and money. It is not necessary to figure out everything before booking, but you need to make sure there is at least one way to align key items. I make sure flights - accommodation - opening days of key destinations - ground transport can be aligned at least one way before making any non-refundable booking.

Some examples:

Booking non-refundable accommodation first only to find out later there is no way to get there during the check-in time window.

Booking flights first only to realize that you cannot get there in time for flight, so you end up consuming one night near the airport.

Booking flights first only to find there is a major event doing on and what accommodations still available are priced triple the normal rate.

Arriving in city with museums and realize your first full day is Monday when everything is closed.

Two cities you need to visit in sequence are not well connected.

If your idea of "amazing view" is natural scenery, you find that in Switzerland. You can simplify your itinerary. You will not find "countryside" in London, Paris, or Amsterdam.

Fussgaenger

"...should we fly into Paris or London?"

Flying into London makes sense since your final destination is on the continent with Paris. What about flying OUT? I'd suggest somewhere near your final destination so that you need not return to London to get home.

"My husband is interested in Germany... My thought is to take in some of the countryside and amazing views in Switzerland..."

The Bernese Oberland is a good target area.

"But I am not sold on this. I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions for me..."

Closer to Paris is Germany's Mosel River Valley - a relaxing region with old-world towns and bucolic scenery where you can put your feet up - or have a riverside stroll or a pedal while seeing a few things as well. Trains follow the river much of the way and river boats get you from wine village to wine village.

River scene: https://images.traum-ferienwohnungen...marienburg.jpg
Cochem: http://www.der-takt.de/typo3temp/_pr...087e83a8d1.jpg
Bernkastel: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...astel_BW_2.JPG
Beilstein: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...2-08_CN-01.jpg
Trier (Roman history here) is the gateway to the Mosel and about 3.5 hours from Paris by train: http://nl.zooverresources.com/images...H675/Trier.jpg
River scene 2: http://www.zughalt.de/wp-content/upl...10/DB11321.jpg

You can fly out of Luxembourg (LUX) or Frankfurt (FRA) afterward.

bilboburgler

Good advice above, don't get fooled into doing lots of travel while in europe, you will get jet lag so the first day will be a wash out and maybe the second day, so you may want to add a day to London, which as Europe's biggest city (by a long way) has a lot to visit (nearly all museums are free for example) and you will have few language issues to worry about.

So I'd keep my travel time to a minimum, look at London/Paris/Amsterdam/Mosel valley, Lake Constance (maybe) or head into the mountains of Switzerland (but your wallet will feel the strain of Swiss visits). You might also like the Rhine valley for the wine and lovely little villages in both Germany and France or head up to Hamburg which is of Germany's bigger and more attractive cities.

You will be traveling in high season so stuff gets booked up. If you use something like booking.com note if the place can be cancelled easily, that at least allows you to modify your plans as you read more.

Have you got hold of a good book (Rough Guide to Europe is one).

Have a look at seat61.com if you want to understand the train systems of Europe, everyone uses them and it saves you discovering that European cities are often not designed for the car.

nytraveler

I'm not clear how may days you actually have on the ground and if you are looking for additions for the 3 places you have listed or if you want to switch Switz out for Amsterdam or someplace in Germany.

Without a total number of day its' really imposible to make recos.

But do make sure you do open jaws flights (called multi-destination on flight sites) to avoid wasting time and money returning to your first city. Into London and out of your first city should not cost any more than this giant circle - may well cost less.

Carlaboe

Goodness - this is all great advice here. Thank you so much. I have been working very hard on this to really understand the landscape and what makes sense. I am working with a travel agent (she is a well traveled High School Spanish teacher that has taken many trips to Europe and her husband is from France. She is suggesting that we just do London and Paris - yet we really do want to try if possible to get in Switzerland. I put this itinerary together and I am looking for someone to poke some holes in it for me. The biggest thing is that flying into Heathrow and out of Paris is much better than out of anywhere in Switzerland. So my girls will be 14 and 11 and enjoy travel but more seeing a few core things (we will have them research several options in each big city) rather than try to drag them to each one. That is not for any of us. We much love taking in the people and the culture too.

3 different currencies.
London - Pounds / Paris - Euros / Switzerland - Swiss Francs

July 31
Day 1 - Leave US (Chicago) Entire day will be gone for travel
August 1
Day 2
Arrive around noon London time and check into flat in Belize Park - we will want to just do little things this day as we will be tired. Tour around a little that evening
August 2
Day 3 - London
August 3
Day 4 - London Tour (Countryside possibly)
August 4
Day 5 - London (think about packing up for next destination) (see a show)
August 5
Day 6 - Travel to Geneva Switzerland on an early flight for $83 per person from Heathrow to LHR to GVA Friday, August 5th. Check in to a hotel in Geneva
Swiss - (LX) 353 Coach on an Airbus A320-214
Departs: 8:55am, Fri Aug 5th - London (LHR)
Arrives: 11:30am Fri Aug 5th - Geneva (GVA)
Tour around Geneva that afternoon upon check in - stay local
August 6th
Day 7 - Geneva Tour
http://www.viator.com/tours/Geneva/C...d578-2510KT001
This total cost is $675 for Guided tour to Chamonix including the Aiguille du Midi cable car, Petit Train and Mer de Glace. Enjoy free time for lunch on your own. Head back to Geneva
August 7th
Day 8 - Geneva (Tour and relax)
August 8th
Day 9 - Travel to Paris via train. We would take the TGVLyriah High-Speed Train which takes 3 hours and 5 minutes into Paris. Then we leave the morning of the 8th and stay in Geneva. It appears that the train ride from Geneva de Lyon (if that is correct) to Paris is €122,00 which looks to be $136.93 TOTAL US dollars.
Check into flat in Paris and tour in the evening. (go to Effiel Tower)
August 9th
Day 10 - Paris (Tour)
August 10th
Day 11 - Paris (Tour)
August 11th
Day 12 - Travel home from Paris to Chicago

I understand that this is European holiday and that it is peak season. We will work to book things in advance as much as possible and would prefer to stick to a schedule if possible. Biggest scare for me is language, money and direction challenges. If locals review this and think it is insane - we want to be realistic. We really do! Please say so.

Another option is to stay one more day in London and add two days in Paris and maybe make an overnite trip to somewhere on the French coast and taking in a beach stay.

Thanks!

janisj

OK -- I'm poking holes

>> I am working with a travel agent (she is a well traveled High School Spanish teacher that has taken many trips to Europe and her husband is from France. She is suggesting that we just do London and Paris <<

For once (and this may be a first! ) I say listen to your travel agent. The more you dash around the <i>less</i> you actually see because so much time is spent in transit.

>>3 different currencies.
London - Pounds / Paris - Euros / Switzerland - Swiss Francs<<

Not sure if this is a question -- but don't buy currency at home. Wait until you are in Europe and use your ATM card to get cash.

>>Arrive around noon London time and check into flat in Belize Park <<

Belsize Park is not a terribly convenient area -- not bad though. It will be quite a long journey from the airport. W/ a noon arrival at LHR I wouldn't plan on arriving at the flat until maybe 3PM.

You are only allowing 3 days in London and want to spend one of those in the countryside. You will have time to see almost nothing of London. And then you want to fly off to the most expensive country in Europe . . . for a grand total of 2.5 days in Switzerland.

And finish up w/ 2.5 days in Paris.

The whole thing is very rushed. If it was me I would do JUST London and Paris and <i>maybe</i> one day trip (not overnight) to the countryside - but I personally wouldn't even do that. BTW - if you want out of the hub bub of London Belsize Park is near Hampstead Heath which is like being in the country in London. A huge undeveloped park w/ hills and footpaths.



Don't worry about language -- English is VERY widely spoken in all three countries.

But running from place to place and having a strict schedule will make you crazy -- things will happen and plans will change and it helps if you are flexible.

May I suggest you share this thread with your travel agent and see what she thinks about the advice we've given.

sofarsogood

Totally agree that you're trying to travel to too many places.

I spent 7 days in Chicago a few years ago and there was still things I didn't get to do. You're sampling three different cities and countries and you'll end up wishing could have stayed in each longer. Choose one (at a push two) and you'll have a much more satisfying time.

StCirq

I would limit myself to London and Paris for this inaugural trip. You'll have enough to deal with just visiting those two places on your first jaunt to Europe. Besides, of all the places to visit in Switzerland (a country I am not the slighest bit enamored of, and it's frightfully expensive), Geneva would be my very last choice - dreadfully dull, insular place, IMO. A few more days in London or Paris, or a brief trip to Normany would be ever so much more fun and relaxing.

Money is not an issue. You just use your debit card in ATM machines, which don't cost anythihg in Europe. Only problem is if YOUR bank charges fees, in which case you might consider changing banks at least for this trip.

Language is not an issue, either, though in France you absolutely must learn to greet absolutely everyone with "bonjour, monsieur/madame" and use all the s'il vous plaît's and mercis and au revoirs as appropriate.

Not sure I understand your direction challenges. That's what maps are for. Buy them and study them in advance to get the lie of the land everywhere you're going. Take a compass if you're directionally challenged, and learn to note where the sun is in the sky.

bilboburgler

Janisj, sofar and StC mirror my thoughts exactly.

Geneva is so dull as to almost deserve its own colour (grey), the best bits of Switzerland are the countryside. If you must go to this place (and I would not, despite visiting family there every couple of years) go to the countryside ( whenever I go I bite my tongue when we visit the cities and my heart surges when we hit little chapels in the country, wander down river side glens etc etc. Book into a hillside tavern with good walking and and get out and about, basing in Geneva is just poor thinking.

I would stick with London and Paris.

No language problems in any of those places, just bring your wallet for Switzerland and its good for the kids (and you guys) to get used to say good morning to the entire breakfast room, in the lift, at reception etc in all three countries (Don't worry the Swiss will accept German or French they don't mind)

Fussgaenger

Don't bother with Geneva. Agree w/ Bilboburgler's notion of spending time somewhere in the countryside - doesn't need to be Swiss... maybe Alsace, or the Mosel, or...? If you do, your memories of Europe will be more complete.

carolyn

If you do decide to go anyway, you would want to get into the Alps in Switzerland rather than Geneva. Lucerne is much visited.

I agree, though, with flying into London, taking the Euro Star to Paris, and coming home from Paris (multi-city on the airline schedules).

suze

I think London/Paris only, the advice of your travel agent, is an excellent suggestion.

BUT if you DO want to do the Geneva area I strongly suggest staying in Lausanne, Vevey, or Montreux (on Lac Leman one hour outside Geneva by train) not in the city itself. Geneva is not that interesting imo, more a city you might want to work or live in, but not so exciting for a family to "vacation" there for 3 days.

suze

(It sounds like you have between 9 - 12 days total? You definitely don't want to try to do 5 countries!)

Carlaboe

You are all the best. Thanks for the information. I would say we have a solid 10-12 days yes. So if we stay Day 1-6 for example in London with Day 6-11 in Paris and keep the flat the whole time and make day trips to the countryside, OR leave the flat in Paris a few days early and find a coastal place for some true R&R - with either mountains or beach possibly so the kids can swim and we can read some books and just have some downtime and then just take the train from that location to the airport in Paris. I like that later option. I just don't think we will want to run from museum to museum day after day in Paris (but have not explored everything we can do yet). And truly "seeing the countryside and how it is different from the midwest in America is very important to us. I was to be amazed with some beauty of nature and decompress if that makes sense. I see a few that have ben suggested and those look great. I need to do a little more research. I would look forward to some suggestions as well. Thank you in advance.

janisj

>>I would say we have a solid 10-12 days yes.<<

There is a semi-big difference between 10 and 12 days. If it is 10 days you will only have <B>7.5 days</B> free on the ground. A full day and overnight is spent getting there and you end up w/ one half jet lagged day on arrival. Then your departure day is eaten up w/ getting to the airport and flying home. So no, you would not have time to venture out to the French seaside.

Twelve days is a little better -- that would net you 9.5 days. In either case - you lose half a day traveling from London to Paris. (The train is less than 2.5 hours but w/ getting to/from the stations and checking out/in it will basically kill half a day)

So now you are down to 7 or 9 days for seeing/doing.

IF you can swing the 12 days/net 9 days that still isn't a huge amount for London/Paris but you could maybe squeeze in one day trip. Not an overnight, which would take almost two full days from your time in Paris.

<B><red>•••</B></red> But if it was me -- and you wanting to see the countryside so badly, I would do JUST the UK. You could spend a little over half your time in London and half on the south coast, or half in London and the rest in Bath and the Cotswolds.<B><red>•••</B></red>

But whatever you decide, don't scatter so much that you spend more time traveling than seeing/doing.

ssander

I would fly into Paris...spend half your nights there...then Eurostar train to London. (An early train gets you there by 9 or 10 am due due to the time zone change...you'll be in your hotel before lunch.) For example the 7:43 am train arrives in London at 9 am.

Then fly home from London.

BTW...it's better to tell us how many NIGHTS you have...not counting the overnight flight. Thinking in terms of days can be deceptive.

ssander

suze

<leave the flat in Paris a few days early and find a coastal place for some true R&R - with either mountains or beach possibly>

Nothing wrong with that idea in theory except it totally re-complicates the itinerary "we" just simplified -haha!

If you want some mountains/lake time, you might as well add Geneva back in & go to Vevey or Montreux. May's still a little too early for swimming in the lake but... Take a peek:
http://www.myswitzerland.com/en-us/vevey.html
http://montreux.ch/index-en.php

nytraveler

Sorry - but without knowing how many nights you have on the ground (you cannot count the day you leave the US, the 1/2 day you arrive from the US and the day you depart europe) is really necessary for us to help you sensible.

For perspective the first time DH and I took out DDs - then also 11 and 14 - to europe we did 2 weeks - 16 days - split between London and Paris, with a day trips from London (Hampton court and Bath) and one from Paris (Versailles). They loved it and it was very relaxed since we were not constantly racing from place to place to squash everything into too little time.

They picked out several places and activities (ballet in both cities) and even some restaurants. And a couple of days they revisited places they loved (Covent Garden) or went someplace we weren't that into (Musee Cluny) while DH and I did something else and we met back at the hotel to go out to dinner.

One of the things they liked best was the chance to use their French in restaurants and shops. Be sure your kids know all the basic polite phrases if they are not yet studying French or are doing another language. Also all of you should study a good menu reader so you are familiar with not just the words but the types of food.

But we did this knowing we - and they - would be going back to europe many more times.

Why not assume that for your kids and allow yourself to see more of two of the greatest cities in the world.

Carlaboe

Hi again. You would think I would hear what you are all saying....sorry if I am being difficult. At this time we are flexible on travel nights. We can do from 10-12 with no issue. We are going July 31-August 12. My niece lived in France and she suggested Annecy as a visit for a few nights - as I look at the map it looks to be very near to Geneva. At this juncture I am looking for a day trip or two outside of London and then the same in Paris it sounds like. People say you should enjoy the planning process as much as the trip. I am not enjoying that at all. You all have been really helpful. Any additional thoughts?