FalafelBall

Hi!
We are a young couple, going on our honeymoon in May (less than a month!). After reading so many messages in this forum, and getting StuDudley's itineraries, here are the outlines of our trip:

Day 1 (Fri) - Arrive 10am CDG
Day 2 to 11 - *Dordogne and Medoc* or *Dordogne and Aquitaine*, by car
Day 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 - Paris
Day 17 - Depart 11am

First question - How would you split (if at all) days 2 to 11. We might add day 12 if required.

Second question - How would you get to Dordogne area? By train to Bordeaux? By car from CDG on day 1? A flight is not an option for us.

Third question - How would you get to Paris on day 12? And where from?

I should say that we prefer places less traveled, more authentic, even if less fancy. My husband speaks French so this is not a problem.

Will appreciate any comments.

PalenQ

I should say that we prefer places less traveled, more authentic, even if less fancy. My husband speaks French so this is not a problem.>

well then pick some place other than the Dordogne, one of the most touristed least authentic French places in France IME (many rich foreigners, especially Brits and Americans, buy homes here and some places are like British colonies - .

From CDG take a TGV train to Lilbourne, closest TGV station to the Dordogne and rent a car there - a few hour train trip saves an all-day drive and could be cheaper all told - save a day of car rental and $9/gal gas and predatorily steep tolls on autoroutes. Ditto for coming back.

Scour www.voyages-sncf.com for schedules and fares and online discounted tickets that can save a ton (non-changeble non-refundable however! and must be booked weeks if not months in advance to guarantee as they are sold in limited numbers.

For lots of great info on French trains check out these superb IMO sites - www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com.

Tabernash2

"We might add day 12 if required." My first response to this: YES!

Sorry I am not helping with the details. We have been to Paris and to Nice, and loved France. If you go, stay as long as possible!

Tabernash2

Another Fodorite recently posted a very helpful and detailed list of the day trips to take from Paris. Maybe that will give you some ideas. I think you'll find it if you search here.

StCirq

If you want to go direct from CDG to the Dordogne, take the TGV to Bordeaux, then the TER to Périgueux and pick up a car there. Get tickets immediately, as you're already 2 months past getting the cheapest ones and they will only increase in price.

If you plan to spend some time in Paris first, then take the train from Paris to Brive-la-Gaillarde and start your Dordogne wanderings from there (it's about a 40-minute drive to Sarlat).

Whatever you do, don't get off an airplane, rent a car, and drive for 7 hours to the Dordogne - a huge risk for you and everyone else on the road.

Disregard Palenq's dire warnings - the Dordogne won't be crowded at all in May, and hordes of Brits moved out during the economic crisis a couple of years ago. There aren't "lots of rich foreigners." The area was one of the poorest, least populated parts of France until a few decades ago, and is still one of the most "authentic" areas of the country, and one of the most beautiful.

The Médoc is quite boring, scenically, compared to the Dordogne. If you wanted to spend a few days in and around Bordeaux, there is plenty to see and do: Arcachon, the Dune du Pyla, Cap Ferret, St-Emilion...Not sure what you mean by Aquitaine; that's a huge area, and both the Dordogne and Médoc are part of it.

PalenQ

If you want to go direct from CDG to the Dordogne, take the TGV to Bordeaux, then the TER to Périgueux>

Or eschew the TGV all together and head to Austerlitz station in Paris and take a non-TGV train with a fairly flat fare system where you can just buy your ticket once in Austerlitz (or at CDG airport train station in which case the ticket would be from CDG to Perigueux - may be just as quick as backtracking from Bordeaux to Perigueux.

PalenQ

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/de...take-over.html

St Cirq is one of those foreigners who owns some kind of residence in the Dordogne so I will defer to her/him when he/she says all the Brits are gone from the Dordogne - but last time I was there - granted several years ago - the villages and cafes, etc. were exactly as described in this Dail Telegraph article of a decade or so ago - overrun with Brits.

Well things change hard to believe the Brits are all gone - I take St Cirq's word that they are so this is once again a purely French area like most of France so I retract my outdated but once not long ago characterization of the area. Things change - this time for the better IMO. Who wants to go to idyllic southern France and be in a British enclave?

FalafelBall

PalenQ - thanks for the train info. It is much more expensive than I thought it would be... but I guess it is still cheaper than taking a car. And would be interested to hear where would you travel in France if you had 11-12 days by car.

StCirq - Thank you. Do you think it is worth spending 11 days in the Dordogne area? And do you think we should also take a train back to Paris or maybe go by car via Loir Valley?

And another question - are the rooms really that small?? I see lots of 10-14 sq/m rooms at hotels and B&Bs. Are the serious? How can one enjoy staying in such a small room? And also, if a website doesn't mention anything about breakfast, should I understand that for sure breakfast is not included?

PalenQ

I would not spend 11 days in the Dordogne if I had not seen other parts of France that to me at least are more interesting and offer more things to see and do that some ancient caves and perched villages that are both overrun in season by tourists.

I suggest taking a train from the airport to Avignon - the heart of the tourists' legendary Provence and base there - Avignon and Arles are two really neat old cities and there is so so much to do on short excursions by car - the Pont du Gard - that ancient Roman aqueduct - Les Baux - one great ruined old citadel town sitting high on a plateau - St-Remy-de-Provence, the famous Camargue

and when leaving that area drive up thru Burgundy along the Burgundy Wine Road - meandering thru tiny wine villages - stop at the various wine houses to see how the vintages are made, sample some and buuy direct from the proprietor.

Beaune is a great base town for that area.

Then head to Dijon, return your car and take the train into Paris.

The Dordogne is nice but if I had never been to France before it would be relatively low on my least - but as an archaic French expression still used by elderly French folks says "A chacun son gout" - each to his own taste and everyone has a different take so keep topping it.

FalafelBall

Well, to me it's a first time, to my husband it is not. When I look things up on the web everything looks beautiful. Burgogne looks lovely and at the beginning we thought we would go there. After struggling to decide which part of France to visit, we eventually decided on the Dordogne after all.

I now think, after looking up for train tickets at the SNCF site (which is great!), to pick up a car at CDG and go to Loire Valley for 2-3 days, then continue to Dordogne for 8 days, then take an IDTGV (great fares) to Paris for a 4 days visit.

Thanks for the comments!

StuDudley

We've spent around 3 years total exploring almost every corner of France. Our two favorite areas are Provence and the Dordogne. Followed by the Cote d'Azur (really like the Nice Hinterland area) and Brittany.

Burgundy is OK - it has 3 of my favorite cities - Dijon, Beaune, and Auxerre. However, I do not think the countryside is as scenic as other regions in France and there are not nearly as many "cute little villages" as you'll find in Provence & the Dordogne.

Since 1977, I've wanted to visit the Medoc. In '77 the people in the French national tourist office in San Francisco told me to not go to the Medoc - but if I wanted to visit a wine area go to Burgundy. Since then, I've read things about the Medoc that says it is dusty and the villages have not profited from the wine income. Everything I have read about the Medoc has convinced me that it is not worth a visit unless I feel I MUST visit a famous winery (which I don't). The city of Bordeaux (visited it 4 times) is OK - but not one of my "top 10" large cities in France.

A "perfect" 17 day vacation, IMO, would be:

- arrive at CDG and immediately take the TGV to the Avignon TGV station and spend 6 nights in Provence. Rent a car. Stay in St Remy or in the Luberon - or both. Visit the farmer's market in l'Isle sur la Sorgue on Sunday morning (early - even in May).

- Drive to the Dordogne - stopping in Carcassone half-way for a 2 1/2 hr visit. Stay in the Dordogne for 6 nights.

- drive towards Brive la Gaillarde and visit Collonges la Rouge. Return the car in Brive and take one of the many trains to Paris.

- Spend your remaining time in Paris.

St Cirq is a she.

>>I would not spend 11 days in the Dordogne if I had not seen other parts of France that to me at least are more interesting and offer more things to see and do that some ancient caves and perched villages that are both overrun in season by tourists.<<

And you recommend Provence instead??? Which I find to be more overrun with tourists than the Dordogne in season (which is July/Aug). We've spent 10 weeks in the Dordogne, and we'll return there next year or the year after. There's a greater variety of things to do & see in the Dordogne than any other region in France, IMO.

Stu Dudley

StCirq

I agree with Stu, including that Provence, which Palenq mistakenly seems to think is less touristy than the Dordogne (it's not, and it doesn't even matter as you're going in May). A few days in the Bouches-du-Rhône, followed by a few in the Dordogne would be perfect. The Loire is a secondary destination, IMO, and far less scenic than either Provence or the Dordogne.

So I would agree. Get on the TGV at CDG and go straight to Avignon (give yourselves 3 hours at CDG to make the connection), spend 6 days in the Bouches-du-Rhône/Alpilles area (with daytrips to the Lubéron); then drive to the Dordogne stopping at Carcassonne for a couple of hours; then settle in somewhere near Sarlat. At the end of the trip, take the train back to Paris from Brive. But get those train tickets now, before the prices rise!

PalenQ

to pick up a car at CDG and go to Loire Valley for 2-3 days>

Again consider taking a TGV train from Roissy to St-Pierre-des-Corps train station (the mainline TGV station in Tours) and pick up your car there and drive to nearby Amboise, a favorite base of many for the Loire - sweet town on the Loire and within easy reach of so many great chateaus - this saves you driving from Roissy after an all-night flight - just have to do the short drive from St-Pierre-=des-Corps station to Amboise.

Or take a train from S-P-d-Corps station to Amboise - rest up there the next day - lots to see and do right in town - and save two days on a car rental - lots of car rentals in Amboise.

PalenQ

Provence, which Palenq mistakenly seems to think is less touristy than the Dordogne (it's not, and it doesn't even matter as you're going in May).>

I never said that that part of Provence was less touristy than the Dordogne - it is even more touristed IME - so why quote me on something I did not say and never would have said???

What I said was that to most folks Provence - the Provence around Avignon - would be even more enjoyable than the wonderful Dordogne - and do not get me wrong the Dordogne, which I have covered on a bike several times, is great - just that the Avignon area IMO is even better and this is why it is the most popular tourist destination in France for foreign tourists.

PalenQ

Between the Avginon area and the Dordogne you can drive via the famous Gouffre de Padriac and Rocamadour - the former a huge cave you descend and then get punted around it on small boats on an underground river - lots of stalactites and stalagmites bien sur!

Rocamadour is said to be the most visited place outside of Paris in France after Mont-Saint-Michel - it was a vibrant pilgrimage center in medieval days and the shrines actually sit atop pinnacles - a very very unique place.

PalenQ

How long do you plan to spend in the Loire Valley?

true2101

May I ask if you are getting married on a Saturday and heading to France on a Sunday, or something like that? I am not (in no way, ever, at all, period) a France expert, but we honeymooned in Europe immediately after the wedding.

If it is straight from wedding to honeymoon, I would suggest considering (whatever the itinerary) starting with slow, relaxing and picturesque and move into more active as the trip progresses. Let yourself adjust from the time standpoint, but also the wedding exhaustion standpoint.

And give yourself time for naps.

StCirq

<<last time I was there - granted several years ago>> Clearly...

And it's mighty odd, PalenQ, that you are promoting the schlocky Rocamadour religious site when you are such a ranting anti-religious zealot atheist on other threads. It's not unique and it's not even that interesting...unless of course you are very religious, into pilgrimages, love trinkets made in China, and have a yen for black virgins.

And it's not in the Dordogne.

I totally agree with the relaxing treatment of this itinerary. Not only is that what a honeymoon should be, that's what the Dordogne is all about.

SusannahT

FalafelBell

I think your idea of time in the Loire, Dordogne & Paris sounds great - three of my favourite places in France. Whilst the Loire may not have the variety of scenery as the Dordogne, it makes up for it in chateaux of all varieties. I don't think you would regret 3 or even 4 nights there.

The internet site of Rocamadour lists it as in Dordogne valley (although in Lot) but does it matter? We have visited Rocamadour twice. Once when it was so awash with tourists that we chose to enjoy the town from the viewpoint and the other in winter when we really enjoyed walking its narrow and interesting streets. Rocamadour is beautifully situated & interesting.

FalafelBall

Hi everyone!

We get to Paris after only 4 hours flight from TLV, so I don't think it's a bad idea to pick up the car at CDG.
We have 15 nights and 16 full days, 4 of which we would like to spend in Paris. So it leaves 11 nights and 12 days to travel.

Thanks for your comments on the Medoc region, it is now officially not an option for us

StuDudley - I have read your itineraries (briefly), and thought there's great information there. Now that we have decided to visit the Dordogne we will look into that itinerary more thorowly. For some reason my husband is not enthusiastic about Provence, he travelled there a few years ago and does not want to go back. But I'll speak to him about what you suggest: 5-6 nights in Provence, 5-6 nights in Dordogne, and the rest in Paris.

SusannahT - thank you. I am not sure how I would feel about the Loire as it seems beaustiful on the one hand, but artificial on the other hand. Also, how many chateaux can one visiting? But I figured that there is sense in doing this itinerary for a relaxed, not in a rush, trip.

True2101 - we got married November 2012, but did not have the ability to go till now, for various reasons. Also, we knew we want to go to France, but didn't want to travel in winter time. My husband thought going to Paris in May is best, as Charles Aznavour's song says: J'aime Paris au mois de mai...

StCirq - you said <I totally agree with the relaxing treatment of this itinerary> - which one do you mean? the one that stu suggested (and you agreed with), or the one that I mentioned with Loire Valley?

PalenQ - thanks for mentioning Amboise, will look it up.

Thanks everyone for being so informative and helpful