Nina66

We returned Saturday from two wonderful weeks in Paris ...trip report to follow, but first things first.

As usual, we upgraded to Business - higher upgradable fare and 60,000 ff miles for SFO-FRA-CDG and CDG-IAD-SFO.

We always request bulkhead seats. The minute I sat down, I noticed a STRONG urine smell right in front of me. No insult to you men out there, but for some reason men (especially husbands) don't smell urine or mold like woman do.

I kept telling DH about the smell which would go away for a few minutes and then reappear just as strong. This continued for the entire ten and a half hour flight.

After an hour or so, DH finally smelled it too. The light went on and he realized that we were sitting directly behind a bathroom. Upon checking, there was a handwritten sign on the toilet door, say "Out of Order".

We called over an attendant, who immediately smelled the urine and she said that the plane had arrived that morning from Australia with a leak in the toilet and that United hadn't had time to fix it, so they posted the sign.

We asked that we be moved immediately, even to coach, but she apologized saying that there was not one available seat on the sold out flight.

Needless to say, the ten and a half hour flight was unbearable and neither of felt like eating.

I've never felt so filthy, inside and out, during or after a flight.

This is my first business day home, I just spent over an hour on the phone with United Customer Service in India... now that's an oxymoron if I've ever heard one.

The first representative was apologetic for the 'inconvenience' that we suffered and graciously offered us a $100 flight credit each!!!! After further discussion, he consulted his supervisor and returned with a final, one time only offer of $200 each!

Finally he put his supervisor on the phone and he too sympathized with our 'inconvience' and offered me 10,000 ff miles each. Now I was getting, excused the pun, pissed.

I had not called asking for a full refund, which I now feel I am due, but I did expect to be treated fairly as this was a legitimate claim. He then made his final offer of 15,000 miles each. By this time, I was furious, although I managed to be very very pleasant, insisting that we were being insulted by United, blah, blah, blah.

The supervisor said that there `were 'guidelines' and that he couldn't offer us any more that that, and that there was no one else that I could go to as he was THE supervisor... and there was no one any higher Right, I was talking to Mr. United himself.

He gave me one week to make a decision on the 15,000 ff each, which at my insistance, he extended to two weeks.

What else can I do? I would probably have initially accepted the 15,000 miles, but after being offered $100, and being placated by them for over an hour, and them chalking it off to as an 'inconvenience', I want to take this as far as I can. The problem was not only disgusting, but a health hazzard as well. A broken light is an inconvenience.

Should I accept the 15,000 ff each or should I continue pursuring it? If so, where do I go next?

After being a loyal United customer for many many years, Visa card, flights etc.. this is the first time that I have had a problem with them - believe it or not.

The return flight CDG-IAD-SFO was a nightmare, their fault - missed connection, lost our upgraded seats and stuffed in economy etc..but I am not going to do anything about that now - the initial flight is more important.

If I didn't have miles in my Mileage Plus account, I would just drop United and change airlines.

Thanks for your help. When my head clears, I'll have time for my trip report. Hmmmm sounds more like a threat than a statement!

Nina

fishee

Welcome back Nina,

Flight sounded awful -- do you ever post on flyertalk.com? You may wish to check out their United forum which is filled with United frequent flyers who have run into every manner of inconvenience (and compensation). If this is your first post expect a little flaming since there's a discourse on people asking for compensation. But you will also get the most valuable, informative, and up-to date info from that site. People (hopefully) will give you addresses and the names of higher powers that you can send your letter to, etc.

You're unlikely to get a full refund since they got you to Paris. I'd definitely demand all 60,000 miles back since the upgrade was much worse than coach. It's too bad because I know the YUP fares cost more -- I'd be just as angry as you are. Always trust your nose and not your husband...

Hope to hear about the less stinky part of your trip.

Toupary

Nina,

I agree that the entire experience was intolerable and disgusting.

My one experience with United customer service, I spoke with a delightful woman named Katherine in Dublin. (Although I wanted, after the fact, to call attention to her excellent treatment of my problem, for obvious reasons she was impossible to find.)

Obviously, for this experience, you deserve some sort of satisfaction. There are no guarantees, but there are certain paths which might ensure accountability.

First of all, you might try another call, and you might find another rep who is more cooperative.

If you can find an e-mail address for Customer Service, when you have a response, their reply to you will be part of a paper trail.

In any written correspondence you send, you might consider cc'ing a travel magazine or web site. I have had some success with this.

To whomever you speak, emphasize that 15,000 ff miles have little value and that you are entitled to at least the cost of a similar flight in the same class of service, as the one you took obviously didn't meet the standard of service.

I cannot overemphasize the value of the (implied) threat of bringing this to the attention of the industry and potential travelers.

Remember, they are counting on the fact that you will let this drop. If you keep at it -- only a short segment of you day will keep it going, and they have to respond to it -- I feel sure you will get some sort of satisfaction. United is in no position to have negative publicity.

I'm sure others on this board will have valuable suggestions. But remember, documentation is the key, and perseverance.

Bonne chance, and I hope you will keep us all posted.

Dukey

Did anyone ask you why you waited THAT LONG to ask to be moved from your requested bulkhead seats?

I'd be happy they offered me much of anything but to each their own.

fishee

There were no open seats available so whether Nina asked earlier or later -- results would be the same.

On flyertalk, one guy had to sit in fresh vomit for a 4 1/2 hour flight. By the time he realized this (he could smell it immediately but his hand brushed the metal edge of the seat and he had vomit on his hands) it was too late -- the plane was taking off and he couldn't get off. There were no other seats and he was stuck there, thoroughly revolted, sitting in puke. I forget what compensation he eventually got but many people noted that was a health hazard that the airline knew about. (The cleaning staff had done a quick clean-up job so they obviously knew it was there...)
I think he was flying American Air -- you can do a search for that thread.

Christina

It does sound very bad, but I think you are being very very unreasonable to think you should get the entire flight free because of an unpleasant odor (which your husband didn't even notice for a while). Also, you chose those seats and they are always near the bathroom (which is one reason I never choose bulkhead seats and the seats in the last row which are also near the bathroom) as they can always smell when near the bathroom. I don't really understand what the issue was here -- the bathroom wasn't being used as it was out of order, so I guess it just couldn't have been fully flushed or something leaked onto the floor of the bathroom and smelled or something.

I've flown entire flights unable to read (which I love to do) because my seat had a burnt out overhead light, and they could not fix it and all seats were full, and in my value system, that is worse and yet I didn't expect to get an entire flight free because of no light.

I think their offer is very reasonable myself. IMO, yOu should not get the entire flight refunded because you received something of considerable value -- transportation to Europe. What happened put a slight discount on the value of what you received, and they have offered something to pay for that discount.

fishee

Here's one thread about a guy whose United upgrade sucked. Your situation sounds relatively comparable. You could send him a PM and see what he was offered/accepted.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=640067

Here's the one about the guy sitting in vomit on American Air. The fact that there was a debate about whether or not he deserved a refund lets you know what you're up against. It seems really difficult to get a full refund from an airline when they get you to your destination. Good luck nina!

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=629940

rkkwan

I am not sure of UA's normal procedures or offer, but 15,000 miles seem low. It's your desire to upgrade that makes you buy the higher upgradeable fare, so I doubt they'll refund you that. So, I think getting 30,000miles (one-way upgrade) is reasonable.

But do post on Flyertalk.com to get more opinion and what's the best way to deal with this. [For example, on the Continental board there, a high-level CO exec. watches the board and solves people probelm.]

But you need to tone down all the rhetorics when posting on Flyertalk. Just state the facts and not your opinion.

Nina66

Thanks guys for your usual positive responses - and thank you Christina and Dukey for your usual negative responses - and for questioning my actions and why I didn't ask to be moved sooner.

We have requested bulkhead seats in Business for the past 15 or so years, including the return light from CDG to IAD on this trip, and have never had an unpleasant experience. As a matter of fact, not all bulkhead seats are behind the bathroom, depending on how Business is configured - sometimes divided into two sections.

As the other posters realized, I am not trying to be greedy and get something for nothing. If they had been fair from the get go, ($100 offer), I would have let it go, but they insulted me and showed their total lack of regard for me as a paying passenger and a frequent flyer on United.

I have just registered on flyertalk.com and am in the process of trying to figure out how to get to the United forum. Is it the Mileage Plus forum?

I'd gladly trade urine for a broken light. All I want is to be made whole again, and to be shown some respect by United. I told him that I would accept the 15,000 miles and that I also wanted a 'token' flight credit. I never asked for total reimbursement - it was his attitude ... 'I am a supervisor and my say so is final.'

I had planned to publicize this, no matter how it turned out, I and started here at Fodors.

I will call United daily and will also start my paper trail.

I did not mention this in my call to them, but I feel that they also owe me partial miles.... not flight credit for my return flight from IAD to SFO. They arrived 40 minutes late from CDG and we missed our connecting flight to SFO. We were rebooked on a later flight - in Economy. I know that by paying an upgradeable fare, I am not guaranteed Business seats, but since I used 30,000 miles for this portion of the trip, I am entitled to a mileage credit for not getting Business upgrade on this flight. Therefore I will be asking for _some_, certainly not all of my miles to be returned.

The rest of our trip was fabululous - but I am in confrontational mode right now and fabulous will have to wait - I can't multi task my emotions

Thanks again for understanding my feelings on this matter.


Nina

rkkwan

The forum you need to post on Flyertalk is called "United Mileage Plus".

marcy_

Hi Nina,
Sorry to hear that your flight was so miserable!

Just seconding what others have said about Flyertalk- it's a wonderful resource.

And I also agree that with customer service calls to airlines, if at first you don't get the answer you want, keep calling until you do.

But honestly, I think I'd take the 15,000 miles and be done with it if I were in your place.

Good luck!

fishee

Nina -- I'd definitely heed rkwan's advice about stating the facts and keeping your tone neutral when posting on FT. Flyertalk can make robespierre and dukey appear like they're sitting down to braid each other's hair.

The United Forum isn't as rough as the American Air or Mileage Run forum, but try not to take anything personally if you get some dismissive (or insulting) comments.

baby2

Nina, sorry to hear about your awful flights. We are still here in Paris and will be flying home this Saturday - British Air club world. We are hoping for a good flight home to SF.

I read marcy's trip report - you had a great time at Jim Haynes. We spent a quiet Christmas eve in our apartment.

Nina66

I've haven't had a chance to post on flyertalk.com yet, I've been on the phone AGAIN with United Customer Relations. Basically they just don't give a damn ... to quote Rhett Butler.

I usually don't give up, just ask my poor DH, especially so soon, but I'm thinking about it so that I can sit back and think about the pleasant aspects of my trip.


I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet, but it looks like it will be an uphill battle with United and that is not how I want to end my trip.

I wish that United didn't have my ff miles - I'm stuck with them for a while, but I'm looking into other credit cards and airlines.

Again, your support, suggestions and kind words have made my day. It's great to have 'friends in the business'.

Nina

Toupary

Nina,

Please keep us posted on how this turns out, and good luck.

You sound determined, and this is just what they don't expect.

Again, good luck.

Madison

Nina - without a doubt they owe you a substantial compensation for the trip to Paris. You missed your return flight because of missing a connection that wasn't your fault. They should give you back all of your upgrade miles for the flight home because you weren't able to use the upgrade. My girlfriend missed a flight from Atlanta to Las Vegas and it was her fault. She had upgraded her flight and the airline did reimburse her miles.

Let us know how this turns out.

cafegoddess

Nine66,

More power to you. Just like you I am a little disappointed with United after being a loyal customer for more than 20 years (6 years as a 1K flyer).


Fishee,

Thank you for making me laugh. I love your comment about Robespierre and Dukey.

Sorry Robespierre and Dukey, it is nothing personal. I am new here and don't know your history.

SeaUrchin

Hey Ms. Nina, welcome home!!
Sorry about the stinky seats!

I vote you stick with the fight a little more and then write it off and accept the miles if nothing else happens. It shouldn't put a stain on the afterglow of a Paris trip! Although when I think of my mice/bug fiasco in Paris I still cringe, but now in a funny way (unless it is a tic..oh no, lol).

Report as soon as you calm down!!
Hi to The Z.

travelbunny

.learn how to complain effectively. This board and others will help. I have found that "going to the top" sometimes helps. I find out who is the VP marketing and the president of teh organization. I then write to the VP (admittedly using my office letterhead. I outline the issues as it reflects on their organization. I DONT demand specific compensation but rather make some comment that I would like them to be aware of the situation and would like some compensation (BUT never specifics). I have found that it works about half the time.

fishee

Write a brief post on FT explaining your departure and return flights -- that issue on your return happens so frequently that there might be a standard amount of compensation. Urine is the grey area, so to speak.

Just ask for feedback on whether they think pursuing the matter is likely to get you better results than what's been offered. FT is filled with tenacious and obsessive people so they don't give in easily.

On a personal note, it took me 6 MONTHS to get re-imbursed by Lufthansa for wine stains on my coat and pants (bottle tipped off cart in-flight). Phone calls, faxes, emails --when my paperwork finally landed on the correct desk, I was issued checks for $235. Some might say it wasn't worth it -- I spent over 3 hours total pursuing it, but it was worth it to me. Everyone has a different standard.

Admittedly, part of the reason why it took 6 months is because I'd follow-up only when I remembered ("hey, where the hell is my check?&quot and had time to deal with it.