Iwan2go

Hello all! We're planning a trip next spring and I have some questions about travelling during the Easter holidays - trains, store hours, and other things along those lines.

We have credit card frequent flyer points for our trip, for which we are grateful, but they require a round trip (not open jaw) ticket. We want to start in Amsterdam for four nights, train to Brugge for three nights, and finish in a Paris apartment for a week. My plans are to fly direct LAX - CDG, arriving around 11:30 am on Friday April 15; take the RER to Paris Nord to catch the Thalys at 2:25, and arrive in Amsterdam at 5:30. (I also looked at CDG-Brussels-Amsterdam on the TGV, but the trains leave at either 12:25, which is really taking a big chance, or 4:30 CDG - Amsterdam 8:45pm, which means arriving even later).

First question: is this a pretty easy thing to do? On paper it looks do-able, and I figured we can sleep some on the train.

Second phase would be to train Amsterdam - Brugge on Tuesday April 19. Then Brugge to Paris on Friday, April 22 - which is Good Friday of the Easter weekend.
Do you know if there any fewer trains than usual - or are they much more crowded than usual - on Good Friday?

If anyone can give me an idea of what these cities have to offer (or what's closed or crowded) for the Easter Week, it would be much appreciated. From their websites it doesn't look like many museums close; how about restaurants on Easter Sunday? I'm trying to time the travel so we'll be in Paris by mid afternoon Friday so we can do some food shopping on Saturday, because I figure that the markets will be mainly closed on Easter.

Final question: Since we will be taking the trains at least four days, do you all recommend a Rail Pass. We're over 60, and it looks like it would cost around $267.00, which seems like a pretty good deal as long as it covers Thalys and all our trains. And which trains should I book in advance. Don't want to get overseas and find that we cannot get where we need to go!

Many thanks in advance for your advice, as always!

Judy

Have you called about open jaw flights? We've always been able to book them using FF points obtained both with credit cards and flights. It is not always apparent on the website but often a phone call to an agent will get it for you.

Iwan2go

Thank you for pointing that out, Judy. However, I have confirmed that this Simmons First CC requires round trip. I stick with it because it's only 50,000 points for a round trip overseas ticket worth $1,000. We used to have Capital One, which did open jaw for 50,000 - but now the same ticket with Cap One is 100,000 points. So we switched.

Judy

Hey, the savings are worth the train trip!

nytraveler

I think you might find trains on Good Friday booked out far in advance and would definitely get tickets for that far in advance - which might also get you a better price.

Very much doubt that a rail pass would pay for itself - since you still have to pay separately for reservations on the TVG type trains.

Also - before booking a 2:30 train I would try to find out how often your plane arrives on time. If it is delayed, there are long lines through immigration and delays getting your luggage (I have waited more than an hour at CVG a couple of times) you might have a big rush getting that train.

hetismij

April is bulb time so you may want to consider adding a day to Amsterdam to visit Keukenhof.

If you do a search on the forum you will find lot of information about all three cities, places to stay, things to do and so on.

I do not think train passes cover Thalys trains, others will be able to confirm that I think. If they do you still have to pay a supplement, so are probably better off booking then as soon as it's possible to do so to get the really cheap tickets available.

PalenQ

inal question: Since we will be taking the trains at least four days, do you all recommend a Rail Pass. We're over 60, and it looks like it would cost around $267.00, which seems like a pretty good deal as long as it covers Thalys and all our trains. And which trains should I book in advance. Don't want to get overseas and find that we cannot get where we need to go!>

Not if you take the Thalys from Paris-Nord to Amsterdam as the supplement for pass holders on Thalys trains is absurd - $50-70 or so above using a day on the pass. Now if you do CDG to Brussels then non-Thalys train to Amsterdam the pass would cover it all but a 3 euro seat reservation fee and then if going back to Paris via Bruges (Bruges-Lille-TGV to Paris) yes the pass may pay plus you could do three days of unlimited train riding for day trips from Amsterdam, Bruges or Paris. But the Thalys supplement if taking it would certainly price the pass out of consideration.
If thinking of the Benelux-France pass then first class is not that much more than 2nd class and IMO first class is infinitely more relaxed - more room for luggage - lots of empty seats usually - bigger seats, etc.
For loads on trains in these countries i always spotlight these superb info-laden sites - www.ricksteves.com; www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com - download the latter's free and superb IMO European Planning & Rail Guide which has a good chapter on each of these countries by rail.

Iwan2go

Thanks to all of you! I'll take a look at the website about the train loads and look again to see what the France-Benelux pass covers before deciding on which tickets are the best.

As I want to finalize booking my hotels and apartment soon, may I ask for more info on the train connections from Paris to Amsterdam? What do you think about catching the train from Paris Nord VS taking the later TGV directly from CDG? I looked for historical data on on-time arrivals for our flight (#065) but cannot seem to locate it. (The website I found quoted mainly interEuropean flights).

I wish that there was a way to make this easier and just fly into Amsterdam and out of Paris, but as we want to end up in Paris I'm figuring this is the best way to do it. The first day will be a pain - primarily making sure to make the train connection - but maybe once on the train we can decompress.

Thank you again!

PalenQ

If you decide to take the Thalys from Paris to Amsterdam then the pass is mute due to the excessive surcharges and then by all means go to www.thalys.com or www.voyages-sncf.com and try to snag a deep discounted ticket at a fractions of the cost of full fare - for as low as perhaps 40 euros or so - but these are sold in really limited numbers and must be booked far in advance and are non-changeable non-refundable so in conjunction with landing and taking the Thalys you must leave a lot of fudge time for planes to be late - if you miss the train then you'll lose your cheap ticket and have to pay full fare - literally $100 or more more expensive.

Iwan2go

Thanks everyone, and PalenQ, thanks for the info on the Thalys. Looks like individual point-to-point tickets are the way to go.

We have flown this AF flight several times and it's never been late, but that doesn't mean anything (other than we've been lucky!). But in most cases we were flying through CDG and made a connecting flight, so haven't had to collect our luggage. We have a three hour window from scheduled plane arrival to the train leaving Paris Nord. Do you think that's cutting it too close? (Opinions, anybody?)

The other option, as I said, is to take the TGV later directly from CDG to Amsterdam. Do we just stay on the same train all the way, or need to switch in Brussels.

I have a few guide books and have been getting ideas of what to do and see when we are in Amsterdam and Brussels (we've been to Paris several times - it's really out favorite city). I appreciate the mention of the Kukenhof! It's going to be open when we're there and we do plan on making the trip out to see the flowers, as well as the museums in Amsterdam. We'll have three full days there, which I think will be enough for us (although I am sure many people would suggest longer!) We are looking forward to the slower pace of Brugge as well. I've found some wonderful bed and breakfasts to stay in and am booking them soon so we don't miss them.

Thank you again for any advice you can give!

PalenQ

I appreciate the mention of the Kukenhof! It's going to be open when we're there and we do plan on making the trip out to see the flowers>

A good way to get to the Keukenhof is to take a train to Leiden and from the station hop the special shuttle buses that go all the time right to the gardens.

Try to avoid weekends IME - one Sunday i went there was about every Dutch family and their grannies there - you could hardly get into the hothouses, the marquee attraction of the flower extravaganza.

I guess these type of day trips by train could factor into your pass figures - though go to ns.nl - Dutch Railways web site and i would think the return fare would not be more than $10-15 or so.

Iwan2go

OK, I think I figured it out. There are several trains that leave Paris Nord for Amsterdam - I had just fixated on the 2:25 - but when I look at the schedule, there is actually one every hour from 2:25pm - 7:25pm.

We arrive at CDG at 11:00 in the morning, so I'm figuring an hour slack for a late plane, an hour to get luggage/go through immigration, 30 minutes to get to the RER train station (isn't it in the airport terminal?), and thirty minutes to get to Paris Nord. That's a total of 3 hours, and puts me at 2:00pm.

To be safe, I can add an hour and book the 3:25 Thalys, giving us 4 1/2 hours to get from the airport to the train station. And I'll take a look at first class, as you suggest.

Somebody who's already done this, tell me if it's as reasonable as I'm thinking. Thank you.

PalenQ

Somebody who's already done this, tell me if it's as reasonable as I'm thinking. Thank you.>

I certainly would not build any more time in and you will probably have time to spare at Gare du Nord - there are restaurants opposite the station or you, if have luggage with wheels just go for a short walk, etc.

TimS

Taking the RER B from CDG to Gare du Nord is easy. If your plane arrives on time, you can easily catch the 14:25 Thalys train to Amsterdam. However, if you book well in advance (up to 90 days allowed) at www.thalys.com. you can get a Smoove fare as low as 79 EUR for 1st class and 35 EUR for 2nd class. Since those tickets are no-exchangeable and non-refundable, for your peace of mind it might be wise to book the 15:25 train.

You can take IC trains from Amsterdam to Brugge and not worry about buying tickets in advance. No reservations are possible and your tickets are good on any train. The route is Amsterdam-Antwerp-Brugge.

For Brussels-Paris on Thalys trains you can get a 1st class Smoove fare of 59 EUR and a 2nd class Smoove fare of 25 EUR. Booking the ticket with the ABS (any Belgian station) add-on costs only 5 EUR and will cover your ride from Brugge to Brussels.

IMO, even with a Smoove fare, going 1st class isn't worth the extra cost. You'll be on comfortable, high-speed trains and your rides aren't long enough to justify the extra expense.

spaarne

Just to make a correction to a couple of contributors above: when traveling with a rail pass you do not pay a supplement on the Thalys. You do pay a mandatory seat reservation fee. Four years ago riding from Brussels to Paris 1st class I paid €20 reservation plus a €3.50 booking fee. According to the site http://tinyurl.com/32y2ugs the seat reservation fee has now gone up to €22, but only €10 in second class. The booking fee has also gone up to 4 or 5 euro.

To aim for full disclosure, the seat reservation fee also includes a very nice lunch with wine, served at your seat. That has got to be worth €15 at any restaurant in Paris or Amsterdam.

So the net cost on top of a rail pass for this extremely comfortable, quiet, and belly filling trip is about €15 in 1st class. I don't know if lunch is included in 2nd class.

Another web site to help you get familiar with trains is at http://tinyurl.com/eym5b.

You seem to have a good volume of data handy on train schedules so you might not need this, http://tinyurl.com/c9jp54, but it is handy. This is the German Rail site with schedules, details, and maps for just about everything you are interested in.

Your major concern is catching a pre-booked Thalys out of CDG or GdN. My last flight to CDG from DTW arrived on time. After lolling about the terminal for a while and having an espresso (I can't walk past the smell of that stuff!) I caught the Air France Les Cars bus to Gare Montparnasse, waaaay on the the other side of Paris via city streets. The bus dropped me off 2h15m after the plane arrived. I agree with PalenQ that you do not need to add more time to your on-the-ground time in Paris. If you walk across the street at GdN as PalenQ suggests you'll probably be walking through a tribe of gypsy women. Keep your distance. I would certainly eat on the train.

<i>do some food shopping on Saturday, because I figure that the markets will be mainly closed on Easter.</i>
It seems to me that those little Algerian owned markets are open every day until 10 PM. They are ubiquitous.

Keukenhof is not to be missed. I have a photo log of my trip two years ago at http://tinyurl.com/y8hltjl. Be flexible and choose a sunny day. I suggest renting a bike at the Haarlem station and pedaling past the fields on your way there. I suggest also that you go in mid afternoon to give the flowers time to open fully. April weather is very iffy in Holland and the tulips fold up for the night.

TimS

Sorry, but the passholder reservation fees for Thalys trains quoted by spaarne are not correct. And they truly are supplements. According to the official Thalys site, www.thalys.com, they are 26 EUR (2nd class) and 41 EUR (1st class) for Paris-Brussels. They are 37 EUR (2nd class) and 60 EUR (1st class) for Paris-Amsterdam.

docdan

four years ago I travelled from Brugge to CDG on good Friday. I found the Belgian rail people to be consistently some of the most helpful travel folks on the planet. I think it is a fair expectation that there will be some disruption of schedules, but I would not worry about that until you get there and they will be able to suggest the best solution. I would further suggest that unless you have specific extra things to see in Brugge, that 2 nights/1 day is sufficient.

spaarne

My receipt from NS International in Amsterdam on 31 Dec 2005 says what I paid:
Reservering, Prijs, 20.00.
Dank u en tot ziens.
Translation:
Reservation, price, 20 (in euro)
Thank you and see you later.

The other site I linked may or may not be accurate. I don't know those people but they seem to have a good grasp on train information in Europe.

Maybe Thalys has doubled their prices in four years or maybe their site has an "American price." Either way the Thalys section on traveling with passes does not mention reservations or supplements, only *passes* and *tickets*. So what are they actually selling on that site?

You need a reservation to get on a Thalys, either with a pass or with a ticket. In my experience the supplement is built into the ticket cost when there is a supplement, e.g. many of the high speed trains in Europe. The cost of a seat or bunk reservation is always a separate line item, and a separate ticket is issued for the seat or bunk.

TimS

The passholder fare on the Thalys site is not an "American price." You'll get that if you buy your supplement at raileurope.com. They chare $51 US (40 EUR) for 2nd class and $82 US (64 EUR) for 1st class for Paris-Amsterdam and tack on a shipping fee to boot.

As I said in my first post, book ASAP on the Thalys site to get a point-to-point Smoove fare of 79 EUR for 1st class or 35 EUR for 2nd class.

Iwan2go

Thanks guys! Lots of info, not only for me but for anyone in the future. Jim, I loved the photos (and tags, haha) of Kukenhof! Thanks for the tip to plan it mid-day so the flowers have time to open.