Help needed for Netherlands itinerary please
Jul 31st, 2016, 12:44 AM
#41
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,825
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can I just say that Rotterdam - Dordrecht - Kinderdijk in one day is a bit much? Rotterdam alone warrants a substantial daytrip. Also needing to make it to Kinderdijk and Dordrecht goes well beyond one day.
When we came to live in Rotterdam, 16 years ago, it was still "the second city". We were heading all the wrong lists, poverty, crime...
Fast Forward 16 years and suddenly the New York Times loves us and we see tourists in the city. Gasp! We even have a hop on hop off sightseeing bus, empty most times, that drives around the city.
Rotterdam is special in the sense that it points to the future. In architecture, but also in demographics. Rotterdam is very much a harbour city and as such, migrants have always landed here first. Nowadays, there are many areas where migrants and their descendants make up more than 50% of the population.
Pointing out:
The showy "new" architecture: our gorgeous central station and the new Markthal, but also Rem Koolhaas' "De Rotterdam". Architecture also means giving new uses to old buildings, especially in the port area: Las Palmas now houses the National Photography Museum, but the most spectacular example of re-use is the Submarine Shed at RDM Campus.
(take the aqualiner for an exhilirating fast ferry ride from the Erasmusbrug jetty)
Katendrecht is the latest example of social engineering and upgrading gone right: you can take a water taxi from Leuvehaven or (even better) Veerhaven out to Hotel New York, and from there cross Rijnhaven bridge to Katendrecht proper. Fenix Food Halls presents many local food producers in an old and re-used warehouse. Excellent for lunch and a beer, assembled from stallholders and Kaapse Brewery.
Beyond is Deliplein with a score of very good restaurants specializing in food from local produce. Beyond that, at Sumatraweg is an initiative I helped found: the BWR Bakery, that offers jobs to local talent and delicious bread to the neighbourhood.
This emphasis on local, urban agriculture is very much a Rotterdam thing: at numerous locations throughout the city you'll find urban vegetable gardens in unlikely locations. Most famous of these is the rooftop kitchen garden on the Schieblok building, near Central Station. It's got a lovely pavillion for coffee and/or lunch. Just beyond, reachable by the Luchtsingel (also accessible from Schieblok) is the Peace Garden at Kouwenburg, another communal vegetable garden. From there you can make your way to The Arches, with its collection of michelin starred, yet wholly informal restaurants and its coffee bars and specialist shops.
Down South, just beyond Katendrecht, at Vuurplaat, you'll find Rotterdamse Munt, another local garden, specializing in green herbs and botanicals. This garden also has a nice pavillion for a quick stop.
Other beautiful areas are the area around Veerhaven and the Park just beyond that (do try to visit the Parquit pavillion, newly opened in an old coach house). Delfshaven too is a beautifully preserved neighbourhood, out West.
Dotted around the city center, you'll encounter monuments to Rotterdam's bombing on the 14th of May 1940. There's the Zadkine monument at Plein 1940 - 1945, also the Ship's Bow monument just off Erasmus bridge, that commemorates the fallen of the merchant navy. And there is the Brandgrens, a city wide installation of lights built into the pavement that is lit at night and shows the extent of German bombing.
The area where I live, Hoogkwartier, is where the rebuilding of Rotterdam first started, already in 1942. It's interesting to join a city tour that can point out what the different reconstruction schemes were and how they've shaped the city that's there today.
When we came to live in Rotterdam, 16 years ago, it was still "the second city". We were heading all the wrong lists, poverty, crime...
Fast Forward 16 years and suddenly the New York Times loves us and we see tourists in the city. Gasp! We even have a hop on hop off sightseeing bus, empty most times, that drives around the city.
Rotterdam is special in the sense that it points to the future. In architecture, but also in demographics. Rotterdam is very much a harbour city and as such, migrants have always landed here first. Nowadays, there are many areas where migrants and their descendants make up more than 50% of the population.
Pointing out:
The showy "new" architecture: our gorgeous central station and the new Markthal, but also Rem Koolhaas' "De Rotterdam". Architecture also means giving new uses to old buildings, especially in the port area: Las Palmas now houses the National Photography Museum, but the most spectacular example of re-use is the Submarine Shed at RDM Campus.
(take the aqualiner for an exhilirating fast ferry ride from the Erasmusbrug jetty)
Katendrecht is the latest example of social engineering and upgrading gone right: you can take a water taxi from Leuvehaven or (even better) Veerhaven out to Hotel New York, and from there cross Rijnhaven bridge to Katendrecht proper. Fenix Food Halls presents many local food producers in an old and re-used warehouse. Excellent for lunch and a beer, assembled from stallholders and Kaapse Brewery.
Beyond is Deliplein with a score of very good restaurants specializing in food from local produce. Beyond that, at Sumatraweg is an initiative I helped found: the BWR Bakery, that offers jobs to local talent and delicious bread to the neighbourhood.
This emphasis on local, urban agriculture is very much a Rotterdam thing: at numerous locations throughout the city you'll find urban vegetable gardens in unlikely locations. Most famous of these is the rooftop kitchen garden on the Schieblok building, near Central Station. It's got a lovely pavillion for coffee and/or lunch. Just beyond, reachable by the Luchtsingel (also accessible from Schieblok) is the Peace Garden at Kouwenburg, another communal vegetable garden. From there you can make your way to The Arches, with its collection of michelin starred, yet wholly informal restaurants and its coffee bars and specialist shops.
Down South, just beyond Katendrecht, at Vuurplaat, you'll find Rotterdamse Munt, another local garden, specializing in green herbs and botanicals. This garden also has a nice pavillion for a quick stop.
Other beautiful areas are the area around Veerhaven and the Park just beyond that (do try to visit the Parquit pavillion, newly opened in an old coach house). Delfshaven too is a beautifully preserved neighbourhood, out West.
Dotted around the city center, you'll encounter monuments to Rotterdam's bombing on the 14th of May 1940. There's the Zadkine monument at Plein 1940 - 1945, also the Ship's Bow monument just off Erasmus bridge, that commemorates the fallen of the merchant navy. And there is the Brandgrens, a city wide installation of lights built into the pavement that is lit at night and shows the extent of German bombing.
The area where I live, Hoogkwartier, is where the rebuilding of Rotterdam first started, already in 1942. It's interesting to join a city tour that can point out what the different reconstruction schemes were and how they've shaped the city that's there today.
Jul 31st, 2016, 05:12 AM
#42
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you so much menachem. You are so generous with your time and knowledge. It certainly seems as if even 3 weeks won't be enough for our trip.
I am wondering whether 4 days just for the sights of Amsterdam will be enough (not counting any day trips) or if we should make that 5 days.
I am wondering whether 4 days just for the sights of Amsterdam will be enough (not counting any day trips) or if we should make that 5 days.
Jul 31st, 2016, 05:51 AM
#43
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,036
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
4 days should be enough, 5 would allow you to stop and smell the roses a bit - people watch, stroll the canals etc. You could aways do a short trip out of the city if you find you have too much time on your hands.
Pre book Anne Frankhuis and Van Gogh tickets. Even with a museum card you can do that - indeed for the Anne Frankhuis it is the only way to gain admittance with the card. Plan to buy the card at a smaller museum where you don't have to queue for ages to get in. You could maybe plan a trip out of the city first and get the card at a museum away from Amsterdam - Centraal museum or the Speelklok museum, both in Utrecht spring to mind.
http://centraalmuseum.nl/en/
https://www.museumspeelklok.nl/lang/en/
Both are closed on Mondays (except Easter Monday and other holidays)though.
Pre book Anne Frankhuis and Van Gogh tickets. Even with a museum card you can do that - indeed for the Anne Frankhuis it is the only way to gain admittance with the card. Plan to buy the card at a smaller museum where you don't have to queue for ages to get in. You could maybe plan a trip out of the city first and get the card at a museum away from Amsterdam - Centraal museum or the Speelklok museum, both in Utrecht spring to mind.
http://centraalmuseum.nl/en/
https://www.museumspeelklok.nl/lang/en/
Both are closed on Mondays (except Easter Monday and other holidays)though.
Jul 31st, 2016, 06:02 AM
#44
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,825
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree that 5 days will make for a more relaxed pace in Amsterdam. It's also nice to hang out for a bit.
For that I recommend taking a ferry (takes about 20 minutes) to NDSM, across IJ. It's an old shipyard, now art space plus a collection of european hq's of the "creative industry". A number of "berlin chic" places have sprung up there, but the ur-establishment remains Noorderlicht, successor to De Houten Kop which sadly burned down.
It's a fantastic, raw, industrial area, but spruced up. A wonderful excursion across the IJ and the view of the city across can be breathtakingly beautiful.
That's the kind of thing you'll have time for with one extra day
For that I recommend taking a ferry (takes about 20 minutes) to NDSM, across IJ. It's an old shipyard, now art space plus a collection of european hq's of the "creative industry". A number of "berlin chic" places have sprung up there, but the ur-establishment remains Noorderlicht, successor to De Houten Kop which sadly burned down.
It's a fantastic, raw, industrial area, but spruced up. A wonderful excursion across the IJ and the view of the city across can be breathtakingly beautiful.
That's the kind of thing you'll have time for with one extra day
Jul 31st, 2016, 02:55 PM
#45
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I love the free pedestrian bike ferries menachem talks about above. I love taking them- to see the Amsterdam facade from across the harbor is great - and I love to just watch the ferries dock - hundreds of bikes and mopeds impatiently waiting for the gate to come and and get off - a real mob scene - lovely.
Jul 31st, 2016, 10:28 PM
#46
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,825
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I consider the one to NDSM to be the most scenic, but there also is the ferry to IJplein (Rem Koolhaas designed social housing) and the one to Java eiland (interesting high quality housing in an old shipyard area). Since 2014 there's a direct service between Azartplein and Zamenhofplein (North). You could spend a morning ferry hopping, easily. Much nicer than a canal tour
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ehSaTEs6Rc
The really special one is the IJ Buurtveer, a historic ferry that gets you from Central Station to Nieuwendam, and - with every sunday's first sailing - out to Durgerdam. That one is the special one, that gets you through the Oranje Lock complex, past Lighttower eiland to beautiful Durgerdam. Walk back via Zunderdorp and Ransdorp, or take the mini busservice back.
http://move-amsterdam.nl/ij-buurtveer/
(you'll need to google translate this)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ehSaTEs6Rc
The really special one is the IJ Buurtveer, a historic ferry that gets you from Central Station to Nieuwendam, and - with every sunday's first sailing - out to Durgerdam. That one is the special one, that gets you through the Oranje Lock complex, past Lighttower eiland to beautiful Durgerdam. Walk back via Zunderdorp and Ransdorp, or take the mini busservice back.
http://move-amsterdam.nl/ij-buurtveer/
(you'll need to google translate this)
Aug 15th, 2016, 04:32 PM
#47
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I want to thank you all so much for your assistance. While I was having computer problems and unable to get on to Fodors, I read all the guidebooks covering the Netherlands that I could find. Based on all the helpful information you have given me plus those books, I have come up with a draft itinerary and would appreciate any thoughts. I want to buy our flight tickets and get the hotels reserved soon since I have heard that, if you are going in the spring during "tulip time," you need to make reservations way in advance.
Fly NY to Amsterdam and plan on 4 full days plus the day we arrive to see the sights of the city. Day trips to Utrecht, Haarlem, Volendam and Marken and perhaps the Alkmaar cheese market. This would mean a total of 7 days in Amsterdam.
Travel to Delft. One day for Delft, one day for The Hague (could we do Gouda on one of these days?), one day for Leiden and Keukenhof, one day for Rotterdam and one day for Dordrecht and Kinderdijk. This would mean 5 full days in Delft.
Then we would rent a car. Our next stop would be in Appledorn or Otterloo or Arnhem. One day for the National Park and the Kroller-Muller Museum. One day for Palais Het Loo and one day for a baattlefield tour. One these latter two days maybe we could also fit in the Airborne Museum and National Liberation Museum in Groesbeek and cemeteries from WWII. Is the open air museum in Arnhem worth going to if we are going to Enkhuizen? So we would need at least 3 full days in this area and maybe 4 if we should go to the open air museum.
Then we would base ourselves in Zwolle to visit Giethoorn, Kampen, Zutphen, Deventer, Blokzijl, Urk and Shokland. Should this be 3 or 4 full days?
Since we are getting very close to 3 weeks, I think we would travel to the Friesland area over Afsluitdijk and perhaps stay in Edam and also visit Hoorn and Enkhuizen. We would fly out of Amsterdam. Would 4 days be sufficient to do this final section of the trip?
24 days is a bit long for us and, if there are any suggestions where you think we could cut back on our time, I would appreciate that.
Thanks so much for any thoughts you might have.
Fly NY to Amsterdam and plan on 4 full days plus the day we arrive to see the sights of the city. Day trips to Utrecht, Haarlem, Volendam and Marken and perhaps the Alkmaar cheese market. This would mean a total of 7 days in Amsterdam.
Travel to Delft. One day for Delft, one day for The Hague (could we do Gouda on one of these days?), one day for Leiden and Keukenhof, one day for Rotterdam and one day for Dordrecht and Kinderdijk. This would mean 5 full days in Delft.
Then we would rent a car. Our next stop would be in Appledorn or Otterloo or Arnhem. One day for the National Park and the Kroller-Muller Museum. One day for Palais Het Loo and one day for a baattlefield tour. One these latter two days maybe we could also fit in the Airborne Museum and National Liberation Museum in Groesbeek and cemeteries from WWII. Is the open air museum in Arnhem worth going to if we are going to Enkhuizen? So we would need at least 3 full days in this area and maybe 4 if we should go to the open air museum.
Then we would base ourselves in Zwolle to visit Giethoorn, Kampen, Zutphen, Deventer, Blokzijl, Urk and Shokland. Should this be 3 or 4 full days?
Since we are getting very close to 3 weeks, I think we would travel to the Friesland area over Afsluitdijk and perhaps stay in Edam and also visit Hoorn and Enkhuizen. We would fly out of Amsterdam. Would 4 days be sufficient to do this final section of the trip?
24 days is a bit long for us and, if there are any suggestions where you think we could cut back on our time, I would appreciate that.
Thanks so much for any thoughts you might have.
Aug 15th, 2016, 09:49 PM
#48
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,825
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Alkmaar cheese market: would be a no for me, even though Alkmaar, the city, is quite beautiful. Instead, maybe visit Bergen aan Zee, or have a day at the beach and rent cycles at Bloemendaal or Santpoort, or rent cycles in Haarlem and take those on a train to Castricum to cycle the Kennemerduinen. And Enkhuizen is a must, in my opinion, including the Zuiderzee Museum.
One day for Delft is overly long, considering you're staying there. Yes to a day for The Hague, also perhaps with an excursion to Scheveningen for the beach and some extensive walking/cycling in the parks and estates that make The Hague one of the greenest cities in the Netherlands. For instance, you can start just behind Central Station and make your way to the sea entirely through parks and forests. Gouda is a market square with the old town hall and some streets around it that are nice. That's all. Not really worth a visit, if you are in Delft, which has more or less the same layout and the same architecture (and you'll see this pattern repeated in provincial city after provincial city)
DO visit the Kröller-Müller Museum however, and if possible, the St Hubertus hunting lodge.
I'd choose a hotel in Arnhem as a base, rather than Apeldoorn or Otterlo, just because Arnhem is the nicer and slightly larger city.
Het Loo has extensive grounds, with natural sources and rivulets as the main features: really special! But one full day for Het Loo is quite long, I think.
Your Zwolle excursion to my mind would be 2 days. 1. arrive and explore Zwolle, having visited the cities along the IJssel (Deventer, Zutphen) en route from Arnhem, 2. Urk, Schokland, Giethoorn (if you must, the place is overrun with tourists) Blokzijl, with a couple of hours boating through the Weerribben nature reserve.
Going through Noordoostpolder (taking the B roads) to Friesland (Stavoren, Hindeloopen, Workum, Makkum) then Afsluitdijk to North Holland seems to me the way to go. I'd stay in Enkhuizen or Hoorn, not Edam. That's 2 days: one while driving, one in Enkhuizen. Then visit Hoorn and Edam on your way back to Amsterdam.
You'll be surprised how fast you can travel in NL, especially if you have a car. By touring cities while you're driving, you can still keep a leisurely pace but also shave some days from the schedule.
One day for Delft is overly long, considering you're staying there. Yes to a day for The Hague, also perhaps with an excursion to Scheveningen for the beach and some extensive walking/cycling in the parks and estates that make The Hague one of the greenest cities in the Netherlands. For instance, you can start just behind Central Station and make your way to the sea entirely through parks and forests. Gouda is a market square with the old town hall and some streets around it that are nice. That's all. Not really worth a visit, if you are in Delft, which has more or less the same layout and the same architecture (and you'll see this pattern repeated in provincial city after provincial city)
DO visit the Kröller-Müller Museum however, and if possible, the St Hubertus hunting lodge.
I'd choose a hotel in Arnhem as a base, rather than Apeldoorn or Otterlo, just because Arnhem is the nicer and slightly larger city.
Het Loo has extensive grounds, with natural sources and rivulets as the main features: really special! But one full day for Het Loo is quite long, I think.
Your Zwolle excursion to my mind would be 2 days. 1. arrive and explore Zwolle, having visited the cities along the IJssel (Deventer, Zutphen) en route from Arnhem, 2. Urk, Schokland, Giethoorn (if you must, the place is overrun with tourists) Blokzijl, with a couple of hours boating through the Weerribben nature reserve.
Going through Noordoostpolder (taking the B roads) to Friesland (Stavoren, Hindeloopen, Workum, Makkum) then Afsluitdijk to North Holland seems to me the way to go. I'd stay in Enkhuizen or Hoorn, not Edam. That's 2 days: one while driving, one in Enkhuizen. Then visit Hoorn and Edam on your way back to Amsterdam.
You'll be surprised how fast you can travel in NL, especially if you have a car. By touring cities while you're driving, you can still keep a leisurely pace but also shave some days from the schedule.
Aug 16th, 2016, 11:44 AM
#50
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,825
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interestingly, almost all of the location scenes for A Bridge Too Far were filmed in Deventer, because Arnhem was heavily damaged during Market Garden. If you walk along the Rhine banks, you can still see what the trajectory for the artillery bombardment was.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocWQtEikXNI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocWQtEikXNI
Aug 16th, 2016, 12:24 PM
#53
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,036
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just seen this, on my hols in France. 
I think this is the company we used https://degelelis.nl/bootverhuur/ but there are others. My son booked it an I am a bit hazy on it right now, after a cider or three here in Normandy.
My trip report about when I did it with family is here http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...ben-photos.cfm. The photos are still viewable too.
If you go to the Hague try and visit Panorama Mesdag http://www.panorama-mesdag.nl/if you have time.
Your trip sounds wonderful.
I think this is the company we used https://degelelis.nl/bootverhuur/ but there are others. My son booked it an I am a bit hazy on it right now, after a cider or three here in Normandy.
My trip report about when I did it with family is here http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...ben-photos.cfm. The photos are still viewable too.
If you go to the Hague try and visit Panorama Mesdag http://www.panorama-mesdag.nl/if you have time.
Your trip sounds wonderful.
Aug 17th, 2016, 04:56 PM
#55
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,412
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The open air museum at Enkhuizen is excellent and should not be missed. You also asked about the similar museum at Arnhem. If you have the time, you should certainly try to visit as it has buildings and exhibits from all over the Netherlands, while Enkhuizen is about life along the former Zuiderzee.
It may be too much for your military history day, but if you can spare more time in the area, the War Museum at Overloon is well worth visiting.
https://www.oorlogsmuseum.nl/en/home/
It may be too much for your military history day, but if you can spare more time in the area, the War Museum at Overloon is well worth visiting.
https://www.oorlogsmuseum.nl/en/home/
Apr 4th, 2017, 04:21 AM
#59
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 691
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes. It's been 15 years since I've last been, and had lived in The Hague before that. I'd like very much to revisit Amsterdam, The Hague and so on, for several days. But that will wait for a future trip.
This time I'm planting myself in Deventer and Dordrecht, and travelling around them.
Never been, but for a short afternoon in Zwolle, 17 years ago, which I remember as very beautiful (walk from train station to a concert hall and that was that, later it was too dark to see anything).
This time I'm planting myself in Deventer and Dordrecht, and travelling around them.
Never been, but for a short afternoon in Zwolle, 17 years ago, which I remember as very beautiful (walk from train station to a concert hall and that was that, later it was too dark to see anything).
