Hi all!

My fiance and I are planning to honeymoon in Italy. Our wedding is Nov. 9th 2003, so we will go any time after that. We want to see Rome, Florence, Venice, Pompeii, and Capri. Our travel agent is pushing us to use the tour group Gate One. (11 days $1906 per person w/ air). I am not sure that I want to use a tour group because I don't want to feel rushed or be stuck with a large group of people. Not to offend anyone, but we are both young and do not want to travel with people our parents' age. My fiance wants to use a tour group. Neither of us have ever traveled to Europe. He does not want to worry about missing flights, trains, etc. He also feels that it is cheaper to get a 'package', and is worried about booking hotels over the internet. I, on the other hand, think it would be more exciting and adventurous to do it alone, but I am worried about missing out on interesting sights (i have my fodors guide, but don't necessarily want to be carrying it everywhere). Please help us! Any advice would be much appreciated as would any tips on what to see and do, where to stay and eat. Also, if anyone has traveled with Gate 1, how did you like it? Thanks so much!!

I say do it without a tour. It's your honeymoon. There is tons of great info on this board about Italy. You will get a lot of great advice once you start doing research and asking specific questions. If your only concern is missing out on important sites, then don't worry. You will know about all of the important ones by the time you go. I completely understand your fiancee's concerns, but with careful planning you should have an incredible trip.

Don't try to do too much on your first trip. As you say, you are young, and hopefully you will go back several times, as many of us have. I would normally suggest doing the big three on a first visit, Venice, Florence, and Rome, but since it's your honeymoon it might be nice to have a little quiet time in Tuscany, Amalfi Coast, or Lake Como. It all depends on what your interests are. We can give you a lot of ideas when we know a little bit more about what you are looking for.

Congratulations!

The classic debate--independent versus group travel. We could discuss it for hours. But, for a young couple on your honeymoon I do not see a real choice.
Of course do it on your own ! It is your honeymoon--do not share it with a group of senior strangers. You can get tons of help here, but start at slowtrav.com for some good planning help. Look under Italy and then planning. That should help to get a start in your planning. Good luck !

Do it on your own. Get rid of the travel agent and use the internet. I always plan my trips that way and I spend much less than if we were on a tour. You don't want to be part of 50 people all going to the same place at the same rushed times. Relax, enjoy each other, take any problems with a grain of salt and have fabulous memories.

I agree w/ the above - go independent! My husband proposed when we were in Venice, and it was so romantic to take in Italy on our own, and not be rushed. I was 20 at the time, and understand not wanting to hang w/ your rents on vaca!) Its hard to miss all the great sites in Venice & Florence (we didn't go to Rome), so don't worry. And forget about worrying about hotels. We were there in November, and Italy is empty! (ok, not really, but you have picked a very low tourist season, which is great in my opinion.) Hotels will be BEGGING for you to stay, and will guide you to their place from the train station. We didn't make any reservations and always found a unique place to stay. Oh - and we always found a great place to eat b/c there were no waits at any restaurants. We had a 10 day train pass, so we were always free to come and go throughout Italy whenever we wanted -- we loved it!!! I'm sure you'll find awesome advice on this board about traveling independently!! Oh, and congrats!!

I totally concur! You're not leaving until November. You have tons of time to do your research and plan. You don't want to be following around some lady holding high an umbrella in her hand as she guides you around town.

It'll be so much more romantic and adventurous to explore on your own. The first time I went (1996), my budget was 1500 bucks for 3 weeks. I did it, no problem. I'm pretty sure the dollar is going farther now (even with the Euro's gain). It meant that in some of the more expensive cities, I would get a room w/o a bath. But in smaller towns, like Riomaggiore, the room was a steal (I went in Oct).

I must say that travelling to these cities in 11 days, sure doesn't sound relaxing. Mainly because you're travelling from one end of the country to the other in such a short time. In 11 days, I'd stick to Rome, Florence and Venice. With maybe a day trip to Sienna or S. Gimignano. That way, you won't feel rushed. You'll be able to enjoy your honeymoon rather than rush to get to the next train. Also, in these towns, almost everyone speaks English. So you won't have a problem communicating. Do it on your own, you'll be glad you did!

Hi Guesa,
Go independent.

You can fly Philadelphia/Rome RT for about $535 each including taxes and fees leaving you $2800 for hotels, etc for the two of you - more than enough. You can find an open-jaw for not much more.

I would suggest flying into Venice, staying 3 days, training to Florence for 4 days and then on to Rome for 4 days. (That way you start slow and pick up the pace.)

You can do Pompeii as a day trip from Rome by tour bus or train.

November might be a bit late for Capri.

Congratulations, and have a wonderful honeymoon.

I can completely understand your fiance's anxieties about doing things on your own especially if you have never been to Europe. Here goes the "BUT" - for a honeymoon it is definitely better to not go on a package tour - it may seem easy in terms of pre-arrangements but it is not worth it. We went on our honeymoon to Switzerland 3 years ago, that was our first trip ever to Europe and had all the same anxieities about language, not knowing what the hotels may be like, getting around, etc. I made ALL the arrangements (I was at home then and my now husband was working) by collecting information on the internet and it was the most fantastic honeymoon I could have had - I don't know how people traveled independently before the days of the internet but now it is really easy. We are going to Italy next week and since it is our first time to Italy we are doing the usual big three - Rome, Florence, & Venice. We will be back on June 17th and can share some tips with you. People on this forum can almost walk you through the whole process.

Congratulations and have fun planning the wedding and the honeymoon.

Ooops, actually no, I was also working then (mixing up planning for another trip) but I ended up doing all the planning because I love doing the research and planning - that is part of the fun.

Guesa123---Skip the tour! I will be honeymooning (see my posts) in Italy in July and I planned out the trip myself. Granted, I have been to Italy before, but everything there is easliy managable. Like someone above said, for 11 days try 3 different places and you'll get to enjoy them more than if you do 5 or 6 too rushed. You'll have a wonderful time, and don't be afraid to go it alone! This is the time in your life you want to be away from people and not tied to a tour. Good luck!

Josh P

Yes, the prejudice on this message board is definitely skewed toward independent travel, especially if you are young, or just reasonably healthy and able-bodied.

First, tours are not fool-proof either. Buses break down, hotels can get changed at the last minute, traffic going into the city can add hours to time on the bus, schedules can be reversed so that the one place you wanted to see is closed during your window of opportunity. Mostly, there's all that time on the bus.

I don't know why your fiance is worried about booking hotels over the internet, unless he's a techno-phobe in general.
Use the internet for research, here or elsewhere. Then book your hotels by direct email or by fax. You print out your confirmation and bring it with you in case you need a backup. This happens successfully every day, zillions of times.

On my first trip to Italy I was by myself for the first half of the trip; I was a little nervous, but I was fine.

IF you will say what you want to spend
(about $2000pp for basic expenses, based on the Gate One travel price?) and how much time you will have, there is plenty of help to be had right here.
Do you have dates in mind?

Fall and winter are less expensive, but odds of rain and chill are obviously higher. You can still have a wonderful time,though I personally am not drawn to Capri for a late fall/winter trip.
A lot of places there will be closed.

Let me also suggest that you not plan too much for your period of time. To go to Rome, imo, for less than 3 days is not worth the effort: it is large, it is hectic, and by the time you get used to the traffic and noise and start to love it, you will be leaving.

I also assume that any day that I have to travel from one place to another, the day is pretty much lost to sightseeing. Oh I might salvage a couple of hours, but that's a bonus, not to be counted on. Going to and from airports and train stations, traveling,
packing and unpacking, hitting traffic leaving the airport, having rooms not quite ready for you, all take longer than you might think. (absolutely true with a tour, as well.)


I'd respectfully disagree with the order of places above, and suggest this:
fly into Rome
spend four days, including arrival day when you will be tired
Go to Pompeii one day if you like, independent day trip, or bus tour day trip (though you won't have run out of things to see in Rome)

Then take train to Florence, it's only about 90 minutes. You could take an evening train so as not to eat up sightseeing time.
Spend 3 days.

Then train to Venice, spend 3 days.
This way the end of your trip will be the most relaxing and romantic, imo.
Leave from Venice, even if you have to change planes in a European hub like
Frankfort or Zurich or Paris or London.

I have files on Florence, Venice and Rome; if you'd like to see them, email me at [email protected]

Congratulations on your wedding! You will have a wonderful time in Italy. My parents are there right now and loving it. My husband and I are going for our first time in September, and I have been planning everything with help from Fodorites, the Internet, and my parents, who send regular updates. I don't think you want an organized tour. My mother just wrote that she was in a church in Umbria and just out of curiosity, my dad pulled out his stopwatch and timed the tourguide to see how long she was spending at each of the beautiful frescoes (30-60 seconds, tops!). You'd do much on your own if that's the case. You might want to check out www.alitaliausa.com. That's the tour branch of Alitalia Airlines. They have packages that offer flight, hotel, and train, but other than that you have the freedom to do as you please. That would offer you at least some structure, and the prices are very good. My husband and I are going to much the same places as you and your future husband. Four nights in Rome, then train to Sorrento. I was able to find out train schedules on the internet by going to Yahoo and typing in "Italy train schedules." In Sorrento (at the Hotel Il Nido, highly recommended in various travel forums) we are going to do daytrips to Capri and Pompei, and it all appears to be very easy to arrange. We're taking the train from Sorrento to Umbria. You could easily take the train to Florence. Rick Steve's website gives you train distances & costs, so you can figure out if it would be more cost effective to purchase individual tickets or get a train pass. I've booked all our hotels via internet and have found that I've either gotten immediate responses, or none at all. Those who don't have the courtesy to tell me if they have availability have not gotten my business! We are now completely booked and I feel very comfortable with having done it all myself...well, with a little help from my friends. (Fodorites, you are a godsend for travelers!!)

For our honeymoon, my wife and I went with a tour to Switzerland for the same concerns your fiance has. It was very nice and we had a lot of fun. However, if I had it to do over again, I would do it myself. Since then, I have traveled to Europe three times and planned/booked them all myself with little if any difficulty. There is so much good information out there, particularly about Italy, that traveling independently is not nearly the stressful undertaking it once was. Buy Rick Steves' Italy book, surf Initaly.com, and search here on Fodor's. That will give you a solid start. Europe has a funny way of making you want to alter your plans on the fly. You don't have that opportunity with a group.

Guesa123-
We just got back from our honeymoon (Rome, Capri, Pompeii, Positano) and I agree with everyone else- do it on your own! There is great advice here on the board and we just booked everything on our own with no issues. I found the people there to be very friendly and helpful- especially at our hotels and they were able to help us with transportation, reservations, etc. And you have plenty of time to do research to figure out what sites are important to you and your fiancee.

A compromise could be do take tours while you are there. Every major attraction we went to had people up front asking if you wanted to join in on a tour- the Coliseum, the Vatican, etc. You could just go at the sites you are interested in. We took one at the Coliseum and it wasn't that expensive and it was pretty informative- lasted about an hour. Or, I've heard good things about Scala Reale tours which last a few hours and could give you both the information you are seeking without committing your whole honeymoon to being stuck with other people.

Best of luck to you and congratulations!Jane

Either plan it yourself (with help from Fodites of course) if you have the time or use a GOOD travel agent who knows his stuff or a website like

www.donnafranca.com
www.initaly.com

Do NOT go with a group. You'll be sorry. Lots of good luck.

PS PLEASE don't try to cram too much in. Less is more.

I planned our HM to Italy for this summer using this board, Rick Steves book, and the internet. It's easy and fun, dont' do a tour group. BORING!
If this helps, we are going for 14 full days (train for most, car rental in Tuscany):
Lake Como see www.varenna.net
Venice www.hotelgalleria.it
Florence www.hoteldali.com
Tuscany www.pievesprenna.com
San Gimignano www.sangiapartments.com
Cinque Terre www.cinqueterre.it
and Milan.
Can't wait to eat, explore, eat, cycle, eat, drink.....!! Saving Rome and Amalfi coast for another trip some day. Congrats!

Another thought to keep in mind that occurred to me after posting- a travel agent will make a commission by selling you a package tour & have to do little if any work him/herself!

My husband and I were planning our trip to Italy for late September of '01. We were just like you ... my hubby wanted to do a tour. He had never been to Europe before, was a little fearful of getting around/getting lost, etc. I wanted to do it independently, but gave in.

When the 9-11 tragedy happened we decided to postpone our trip. We got most of our money back from the tour company (Insight) and decided we would wait a year.

When it came time to decide between a tour vs. independent again, this time my husband felt like he didn't want to be on a big tourist bus ... a likely terrorist target. So we did it on our own last October and it was fantastic.

We had a similar itinerary tour yours and this is what we did:

Depart Chicago Friday afternoon.
(We had a layover in Munich but flew into Naples.)

Arrive Naples mid-morning Saturday.

Hired driver (pre-arranged thru Travel agent) to pick us up and drive us to Positano. (About an hour).

Stayed in Positano 3 nights.

Hired driver (again, pre-arranged thru Travel agent) to pick us up and drive us to Pompeii, where we spent a few hours while he waited for us. He then drove us to the train station in Naples.

Took a train to Rome. Stayed for 3 nights.
Would highly recommend booking a tour (or two) through Scala Reale. Intimate walking tours led by students and PhD's who are extremely knowledgeable. We took one of the Vatican and one of the Forum, Colloseum, etc.

Took train to Florence, again ... 3 nights. Took two afternoon CAF tours that were great. One to Fiesole (just outside of Fl.) and some sights in the city center, and the other was to a winery in small vilage about an hour outside of Florence.

Took train to Venice for 2 nights. (I wish we had had one more.) Took a morning walking tour of St. Mark's, Doges Palace. (arranged through travel agent)

Basically, the one appealing thing to us about taking a tour, is all of the history, facts and insights you get from a knowledgeable guide. But we found that by just booking a few select, intimate tours of the main sights in each city, we got the history we were looking for while still having tons of free time to explore on our own.

One of our favorite memories of the whole trip was the Sunday morning we awoke in Florence, meandered over to a little piazza in a residential area across the river. We sat at a little cafe with our coffee, newspaper and the BEST chocolate croissants (is there an italian term for croissants?) and watched as all the locals came out of the nearby church. There was also a lively market going on in the piazza ... not one geared towards tourists, but to the locals. Tons of fresh food, lots of samples of cheese, jams, etc. We felt like we lived there and it was just a typical Sunday morning.

Anyway, let me know if you have any other questions. I can give you a list of all the places we stayed. We really enjoyed all of them.

Oops. Forgot to mention ... don't miss a trip to Capri. We did it as a day trip from Positano and loved it ... even though I know a lot of people say you have to stay overnight. But if your schedule doesn't permit, I still think it makes a fantastic day.
Be sure to take the funicular up to the very tip top of the island. The views are stunning.

Thanks so much for all your help!!! I've finally got him conviced that we should go it alone, now we have to start the planning. Plane tickets 1st I guess?!

-Amber