Help! American needs to get into Italy after staying >90 days
Jun 8th, 2011, 08:44 PM
#21
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What exactly is the benefit of flying family from Rome to Istanbul vs. Rome to New York?
They will go thru exactly the same passport control in Rome, regardless if their flight will be to Istanbul, New York, or Kuala Lumpur (or London).
Their passport can be checked, or not. They can get into trouble, or not.
The only difference will be that OP can travel w/o any problems to Istanbul.
Though I don't get how it can solve the problem to
a) get family out of the Schengen zone "hassle-free", or
b) OP back into the Schengen zone.
They will go thru exactly the same passport control in Rome, regardless if their flight will be to Istanbul, New York, or Kuala Lumpur (or London).
Their passport can be checked, or not. They can get into trouble, or not.
The only difference will be that OP can travel w/o any problems to Istanbul.
Though I don't get how it can solve the problem to
a) get family out of the Schengen zone "hassle-free", or
b) OP back into the Schengen zone.
Jun 8th, 2011, 08:47 PM
#22
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Bill, I wouldn't be the one to call you stupid, since only 5 months ago I was pretty much thinking the same way as you were, even worse, I was planning to let our young daughter stay and travel in Europe beyond the 90 day stay... As mentioned before, trying to reenter Italy is probably not going to work for you... I can also believe that just as you left Italy without any ramifications, there is a good chance your family could do the same... In Germany, and probably a few other European states they would probably be stopped for some questioning and might be fined, in addition to missing their flight...
But as asked before, I'm not sure why you'd need to fly to Europe to pick up your family, which now seems more and more complicated and expensive.
But as asked before, I'm not sure why you'd need to fly to Europe to pick up your family, which now seems more and more complicated and expensive.
Jun 8th, 2011, 08:51 PM
#23
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<i>"...we got in this situation also because of a study abroad program. Since it was 89 days, the program told everyone (students, teachers) not to worry. Many stayed >90 days and had no trouble returning."</i>
I'm very surprised to read this. When my daughter was preparing for study in France, her program insisted everyone have a visa which allowed six months stay, even though the program ended within 90 days. And this was over 15 years ago.
I find it hard to believe any school advising students to ignore a country's immigration laws, especially in view of Italy's new anti-immigration laws which criminalize violations. This means if you break the law now, you are considered a criminal. Previously you were just in violation of the law. That's a big difference.
I'm very surprised to read this. When my daughter was preparing for study in France, her program insisted everyone have a visa which allowed six months stay, even though the program ended within 90 days. And this was over 15 years ago.
I find it hard to believe any school advising students to ignore a country's immigration laws, especially in view of Italy's new anti-immigration laws which criminalize violations. This means if you break the law now, you are considered a criminal. Previously you were just in violation of the law. That's a big difference.
Jun 8th, 2011, 09:04 PM
#24
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Julia, 15 years was long ago... Today it is VERY difficult to get an extended visa.... That's why they're also so strict about tourists who stay beyond the limit.
But I agree, what Bill is telling us about the school telling students not to worry about extending their stay beyond the 90 days -- this is utterly wrong and unprofessional and can be ground for a lawsuit... My daughter's school was VERY VERY careful about the matter, and refused to give us any advice as to the possibilities of staying beyond the 90 days.
But I agree, what Bill is telling us about the school telling students not to worry about extending their stay beyond the 90 days -- this is utterly wrong and unprofessional and can be ground for a lawsuit... My daughter's school was VERY VERY careful about the matter, and refused to give us any advice as to the possibilities of staying beyond the 90 days.
Jun 8th, 2011, 09:08 PM
#25
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You can't return to Italy for another six months.
Period. End of story. No lawyer can do anything to help you. The only way out is to apply in your own country for a visa - which, even if you get it, will take at least a month. But you won't, because the consulate will request your passport, see you're over the limit and refuse you. It's possible, but by no means certain, that you won't be allowed on a Schengen-boumd plane in your own country anyway
I can't see what the point of getting your family to Britain (or Croatia) is supposed to be (if they can get to Britain, they can just as easily get to America). But if there IS a point, your having broken Italian law is as irrelevant to UK immigration as it would be if you'd incurred a speeding fine in your own country. You go through exactly the same controls trying to enter Italy from Britain (or Croatia)
If your family are in the same position as you, all they need do is go to the airport. They may or may not be fined, and have their passport stamped limiting further access to the Schengen area (Italian border control has higher priorities than hassling dumb Americans). But they'll get out just as easily without you.
Period. End of story. No lawyer can do anything to help you. The only way out is to apply in your own country for a visa - which, even if you get it, will take at least a month. But you won't, because the consulate will request your passport, see you're over the limit and refuse you. It's possible, but by no means certain, that you won't be allowed on a Schengen-boumd plane in your own country anyway
I can't see what the point of getting your family to Britain (or Croatia) is supposed to be (if they can get to Britain, they can just as easily get to America). But if there IS a point, your having broken Italian law is as irrelevant to UK immigration as it would be if you'd incurred a speeding fine in your own country. You go through exactly the same controls trying to enter Italy from Britain (or Croatia)
If your family are in the same position as you, all they need do is go to the airport. They may or may not be fined, and have their passport stamped limiting further access to the Schengen area (Italian border control has higher priorities than hassling dumb Americans). But they'll get out just as easily without you.
Jun 8th, 2011, 10:49 PM
#26
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So you know you have broken the law, and now want our advice on how to not only get back INTO Italy illegally, but also TRAVEL illegally there for an additional month before coming home.
Great roll model.
Get your family on the next plane home. Whether you have spending money or not is irrelevant.
I'd love to hear your advice to an illegal visitor doing the same in the US.
Great roll model.
Get your family on the next plane home. Whether you have spending money or not is irrelevant.
I'd love to hear your advice to an illegal visitor doing the same in the US.
Jun 8th, 2011, 11:07 PM
#27
"<i>It takes a month because we want to travel before returning</i>"
OMG!! And here I thought you were worrying about your family and how to get them out of Italy/Schengen. But that isn't what you want at all -- you want to travel around w/ them for another month. jeeze louise -- just get your family airplane tix and get them on the next flight out.
OMG!! And here I thought you were worrying about your family and how to get them out of Italy/Schengen. But that isn't what you want at all -- you want to travel around w/ them for another month. jeeze louise -- just get your family airplane tix and get them on the next flight out.
Jun 8th, 2011, 11:26 PM
#28
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<i>But if there IS a point, your having broken Italian law is as irrelevant to UK immigration as it would be if you'd incurred a speeding fine in your own country.</i>
flanneruk, there have been several recent reports of non-EU citizens being turned away at UK border, when the border agent spotted Schengen overstay on their passport, corroborated by passenger statement. The rationale seems to be while they haven't broken UK law, they have Schengen's, and that's a sufficient reason for refusing entry into UK - those who flout Schengen rule may do likewise in UK.
flanneruk, there have been several recent reports of non-EU citizens being turned away at UK border, when the border agent spotted Schengen overstay on their passport, corroborated by passenger statement. The rationale seems to be while they haven't broken UK law, they have Schengen's, and that's a sufficient reason for refusing entry into UK - those who flout Schengen rule may do likewise in UK.
Jun 8th, 2011, 11:47 PM
#29
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Jamikins-Glad someone else said what needed to be said. I don't see how any reputable university would tell not their students about visas needed and length of stay. Sounds fishy.
I would recommend the OP get their family out of Italy and back to the US now! If Italian immigration is as lax as you say, there might not be a problem for the rest of the family. Take this as a lesson learned.
Alec- I witnessed something like that on my last trip on the Eurostar and took the individual to an office for more questioning. Not fun.
I would recommend the OP get their family out of Italy and back to the US now! If Italian immigration is as lax as you say, there might not be a problem for the rest of the family. Take this as a lesson learned.
Alec- I witnessed something like that on my last trip on the Eurostar and took the individual to an office for more questioning. Not fun.
Jun 9th, 2011, 01:15 AM
#30
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From the sounds of it the university paperwork will be irrelevant anyways...the course has already been taken, its not like they will backdate a student visa anyways, especially given the fact that he has already overstayed and was there illegally.
PS - that should read ROLE model above.
PS - that should read ROLE model above.
Jun 9th, 2011, 01:48 AM
#31
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Not sure why you tagged this post for Greece — did you want to go there, too? You have already overstayed Schengen by a month and a half, and now want advice on how to stay <i>another</i> month. Amazing! 
Jun 9th, 2011, 01:52 AM
#32
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I'm willing to bet that "Bill" (I assume that's an alias, and he's not using his real name on the internet confessing to violating immigration laws) can just fly back to Italy and go on with his additional 1mo vacation without any issues.
10:1 odds. Any takers?
10:1 odds. Any takers?
Jun 9th, 2011, 03:40 AM
#35
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I regretfully agree with J62 but wouldn't try it myself because the consequences are not great if you are wrong.
In his favor: the last time I entered Italy at FCO from the US, the immigration officers stamped my passport without looking at it or me.
AFAIK, airlines only look to see whether your passport will remain valid for the next six months. I have never had airline personnel go through my passport to see where I had been and for how long. In my passport, entry and exit stamps don't match, and I have entered some countries without getting stamped and exited the same and other countries without getting stamped.
Against him: new computerized systems are replacing the need for stamping at all. A wave of the passport at immigration might be enough to flag him, in which case he is toast. I don't know if they have these at Rome, Milan, or Venice. With my luck, they would install them the day before I arrived.
Someone at the airline might, just might, look closely enough to question his boarding, especially if he has a guilty look!
As for asking how he would feel about people doing this in the US, people overstay tourist visas all the time. Many of them work in construction, landscaping, office and home cleaning, and child care here in the northeast.
Whatever, I certainly would not advise his trying to travel elsewhere in the Schengen zone, particularly not Germany, where theydon't fool around and would catch him immediately. Even further travel in Italy is risky if his family plans to stay in hotels, since the desk is required to collect passport information and report it to the police.
Switzeralnd and Croatia are the nearest non-zone countries.
In his favor: the last time I entered Italy at FCO from the US, the immigration officers stamped my passport without looking at it or me.
AFAIK, airlines only look to see whether your passport will remain valid for the next six months. I have never had airline personnel go through my passport to see where I had been and for how long. In my passport, entry and exit stamps don't match, and I have entered some countries without getting stamped and exited the same and other countries without getting stamped.
Against him: new computerized systems are replacing the need for stamping at all. A wave of the passport at immigration might be enough to flag him, in which case he is toast. I don't know if they have these at Rome, Milan, or Venice. With my luck, they would install them the day before I arrived.
Someone at the airline might, just might, look closely enough to question his boarding, especially if he has a guilty look!
As for asking how he would feel about people doing this in the US, people overstay tourist visas all the time. Many of them work in construction, landscaping, office and home cleaning, and child care here in the northeast.
Whatever, I certainly would not advise his trying to travel elsewhere in the Schengen zone, particularly not Germany, where theydon't fool around and would catch him immediately. Even further travel in Italy is risky if his family plans to stay in hotels, since the desk is required to collect passport information and report it to the police.
Switzeralnd and Croatia are the nearest non-zone countries.
Jun 9th, 2011, 03:53 AM
#36
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I can't believe that the OP thinks he can simply ignore the laws of another country with impunity.
Also subject his family to the potential repercussions.
Just get your family home now and hope for the best - no fine, no questioning by immigration authorities, no ban of further travel to Schengen countries.
Or not - and leave them their to figure out the consequences themselves.
Also subject his family to the potential repercussions.
Just get your family home now and hope for the best - no fine, no questioning by immigration authorities, no ban of further travel to Schengen countries.
Or not - and leave them their to figure out the consequences themselves.
Jun 9th, 2011, 10:01 AM
#38
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Even if the OP gets some sort of student visa - what does his family do? Are they all students too? How does he plan on sneaking them out of the cuontry without being caught.
Or reported for the extra month of time they chose to be there illegally.
It's true the people come to the US on tourist visas and overstay them. This is also illegal. If they are caught they are immediately deported. But, because they are also working illegally they are operating under the table overall. Not checking in and out of hotels that report passport info to the police every night.
Or reported for the extra month of time they chose to be there illegally.
It's true the people come to the US on tourist visas and overstay them. This is also illegal. If they are caught they are immediately deported. But, because they are also working illegally they are operating under the table overall. Not checking in and out of hotels that report passport info to the police every night.
Jun 9th, 2011, 10:19 AM
#39
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Hey, he's not in Europe to break the law, dump his family to illegally stay there, look for a job, be a burden on their social services -- which is what "our tourists" have been doing here ---- and MANY MANY others, flooding Europe, calling themselves "refugees" have been wracking Europe's economy and social balance...
So he was naive, he made a mistake. The locals, Italians, with their lax approach have been all but encouraging him... So he learned his lesson.
At least I hope so...
So he was naive, he made a mistake. The locals, Italians, with their lax approach have been all but encouraging him... So he learned his lesson.
At least I hope so...
Jun 9th, 2011, 10:36 AM
#40
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Ack:
Switzerland has been part of the Schengen agreement for quite a few years. Their immigration officers are every bit as strict as the Germans.
mamamia2:
No, he is not in Europe to break the law (at least that's what he is pretending), but technically he is in just the same situation as an economic refugee working on a tourist visa: overstay, no official residence, no job, no nothing.
So get your family out, forget about travelling around for another month and feel lucky, if everything turns out well. Good luck.
Phil.
Switzerland has been part of the Schengen agreement for quite a few years. Their immigration officers are every bit as strict as the Germans.
mamamia2:
No, he is not in Europe to break the law (at least that's what he is pretending), but technically he is in just the same situation as an economic refugee working on a tourist visa: overstay, no official residence, no job, no nothing.
So get your family out, forget about travelling around for another month and feel lucky, if everything turns out well. Good luck.
Phil.
