healthcare in Ireland for American tourist
Apr 28th, 2011, 06:12 AM
#21
In the UK, loosely speaking (Because the actual details are horribly complicated", Emergency treatment is free.
Fall over, break a bone, have a suspected heart attack etc and appraisal, treatment should be free. Where things get difficult is on admission and the definition of when "Emergency" begins and when "Routine medical care" commences. The NHS is supposed to get the details and charge non EU visitors to recover costs for the latter.
Many no longer bother as in many cases it costs more to chase the bills than the money paid. The big London hospitals certainly have problems with "health tourism" where people have a sudden emergency within a couple of hours arriving in the country and often needing expensive surgery/treatment.
"emv0816: because Americans are special"
There is a certain tone of voice in which that needs to be read to make it ring true with most of the UK residents.
Fall over, break a bone, have a suspected heart attack etc and appraisal, treatment should be free. Where things get difficult is on admission and the definition of when "Emergency" begins and when "Routine medical care" commences. The NHS is supposed to get the details and charge non EU visitors to recover costs for the latter.
Many no longer bother as in many cases it costs more to chase the bills than the money paid. The big London hospitals certainly have problems with "health tourism" where people have a sudden emergency within a couple of hours arriving in the country and often needing expensive surgery/treatment.
"emv0816: because Americans are special"
There is a certain tone of voice in which that needs to be read to make it ring true with most of the UK residents.
Apr 29th, 2011, 05:58 AM
#22
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Americans are special>> read with sarcastic tone and you might see the humor. NOT all Americans are as arrogant as you think they are anymore so than Brits are stuffy, pompous and self-rightous.
Apr 29th, 2011, 06:06 AM
#23
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Just be very careful about "medical evacuation insurance." Read the fine print.
In many policies, "medical evacuation insurance" evacuates you to the LEAST EXPENSIVE OF either (1) your home or (2) the nearest medical facility to where you become sick or injured. Of course, 999 times out of 1,000 you get the second option--an ambulance ride. Just read the fine print.
In many policies, "medical evacuation insurance" evacuates you to the LEAST EXPENSIVE OF either (1) your home or (2) the nearest medical facility to where you become sick or injured. Of course, 999 times out of 1,000 you get the second option--an ambulance ride. Just read the fine print.
Apr 29th, 2011, 06:07 AM
#24
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My parents cancelled their trip to US this year, partially because health insurance for 1 month was going to cost them $14K.
People who travel to Europe (and elsewhere) should get travel insurance if there is any chance of a health related issue, versus hoping that the local health care system will take care of them. There have been over the years stories from France about how nice the system was, but not something to use as a rule of thumb.
People who travel to Europe (and elsewhere) should get travel insurance if there is any chance of a health related issue, versus hoping that the local health care system will take care of them. There have been over the years stories from France about how nice the system was, but not something to use as a rule of thumb.
Apr 29th, 2011, 07:29 AM
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"NOT all Americans are as arrogant as you think they are anymore so than Brits are stuffy, pompous and self-rightous."
But EMV0816, you do sound arrogant on this and your other post. People are only trying to help.
BTW, your interpretation of Micheal Moore's comment was not BS, as seen by the comments on this post. Health insurance in Europe is "free or inexpensive" compared to the US.
But EMV0816, you do sound arrogant on this and your other post. People are only trying to help.
BTW, your interpretation of Micheal Moore's comment was not BS, as seen by the comments on this post. Health insurance in Europe is "free or inexpensive" compared to the US.
Apr 29th, 2011, 08:14 AM
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Many European countries have reciprocal agreements with one another such that citizens of one country can get treatment in another when visiting overseas. I think there might be similar arrangements with NZ and Aus as well?
However, since the US does not have free universal healthcare at source even for its own citizens, the suggestion that Americans might be able to take advantage of such care elsewhere is what (understandably) raises eyebrows or leads to slightly caustic comments on threads such as these.
As a number of people have pointed out, sometimes healthcare professionals don't go through the formality of billing visitors for relatively minor treatment - but that's down to luck rather than an absolute 'right' to treatment. The more savvy (and fair-minded) US travellers know this and buy travel insurance accordingly.
However, since the US does not have free universal healthcare at source even for its own citizens, the suggestion that Americans might be able to take advantage of such care elsewhere is what (understandably) raises eyebrows or leads to slightly caustic comments on threads such as these.
As a number of people have pointed out, sometimes healthcare professionals don't go through the formality of billing visitors for relatively minor treatment - but that's down to luck rather than an absolute 'right' to treatment. The more savvy (and fair-minded) US travellers know this and buy travel insurance accordingly.
Apr 29th, 2011, 08:50 AM
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Here's an extended write-up of our latest experience in France. My wife broke her ankle in Italy and we flew to France. We were fortunate in that it was better for us to stay in France than come back to the States for medical care because our housing in France could accommodate a person in a wheelchair far better than where we live in the States. But as PaulHahn mentions, it is not clear that medical insurance would provide repatriation if that were desirable but not <b>medically</b> necessary. The following report gives a sense of cost, which might help make a decision on insurance, especially if the traveler's regular medical insurance will reimburse emergency treatment--or to put it bluntly, whether reimbursable or not, can you afford 800€ out-of-pocket medical expenses? As to repatriation, travel insurance might be more appropriate to get reimbursed for canceled flights.
Report:
Because of my wife’s broken ankle, we canceled 5 weeks of traveling, landed in Paris and drove directly to the Dordogne.
The day we arrived we went to the emergency room of the Centre Hospitalier of Périgueux where an X-ray was taken and the ankle placed in a cast for a minimum of 3 weeks; it turned out to be five weeks, the cast coming off the day out friends arrived--we had not told them about our medical problem.
Medical practice in France is different from practice in the States. My wife had previously been operated on the same foot with six weeks in a non-walking cast. There was the occasional checkup with the $150 ride to Kaiser (she could not go down the stairs on her own), but no medicines were prescribed nor special care indicated. In France, if the leg is immobilized in a cast, it is expected that the patient will receive a daily injection of a blood thinning drug to prevent phlebitis. This will be administered by a visiting nurse using a prescription purchased by the patient. So we got acquainted with the four nurses who service our area. Some don’t have the time to chitchat and would stay no more than 5 minutes, while others were more chatty--one even provided a woolen sock to go over the cast because we had no heat in the house and the early part of May was really cold, with snow falling for an hour on May 5 (http://www.flickr.com/pho...n/set-72157623282383670/ ). When we spoke with our friends in France, they all found the injections to be a normal part of life with an immobilized leg, whereas our friends in the States who are connected to the health care system had never heard of it. But when we mentioned it to a nurse, he immediately recognized the drug even if it is used less frequently than in France.
After the third week we went for a checkup with the orthopedic MD who insisted that the cast stay another 2 weeks. Although his office is in the hospital, on Thursdays he is paid directly and not through the hospital’s financial office. I suspect that this is an arrangement done to give the doctor extra income above his staff salary. I also suspect that if one chooses to see the doctor on that day (when calling for the appointment one is warned that Thursday is this doctor’s private hours), the reimbursement is less than on other days (I understand that seeing a doctor other than your regular one for a non-emergency consultation is reimbursed at 50% rather than the 100% minus one euro).
We rented a wheelchair (16€ per week) which my wife had to use because she does not have upper body strength and she has plantar fasciitis on the heel of her “good” foot. Moreover, crutches could not be used for long distances such as going to the market, or a flower show, or a pottery exhibit--all of which we did.
All in all, the 5 weeks of medical care (ER, doctor, daily nurses, prescriptions, blood tests every five days) cost us about 800€, fully reimbursed by Kaiser minus its standard co-pay, although in one instance at a very disadvantageous rate.
Report:
Because of my wife’s broken ankle, we canceled 5 weeks of traveling, landed in Paris and drove directly to the Dordogne.
The day we arrived we went to the emergency room of the Centre Hospitalier of Périgueux where an X-ray was taken and the ankle placed in a cast for a minimum of 3 weeks; it turned out to be five weeks, the cast coming off the day out friends arrived--we had not told them about our medical problem.
Medical practice in France is different from practice in the States. My wife had previously been operated on the same foot with six weeks in a non-walking cast. There was the occasional checkup with the $150 ride to Kaiser (she could not go down the stairs on her own), but no medicines were prescribed nor special care indicated. In France, if the leg is immobilized in a cast, it is expected that the patient will receive a daily injection of a blood thinning drug to prevent phlebitis. This will be administered by a visiting nurse using a prescription purchased by the patient. So we got acquainted with the four nurses who service our area. Some don’t have the time to chitchat and would stay no more than 5 minutes, while others were more chatty--one even provided a woolen sock to go over the cast because we had no heat in the house and the early part of May was really cold, with snow falling for an hour on May 5 (http://www.flickr.com/pho...n/set-72157623282383670/ ). When we spoke with our friends in France, they all found the injections to be a normal part of life with an immobilized leg, whereas our friends in the States who are connected to the health care system had never heard of it. But when we mentioned it to a nurse, he immediately recognized the drug even if it is used less frequently than in France.
After the third week we went for a checkup with the orthopedic MD who insisted that the cast stay another 2 weeks. Although his office is in the hospital, on Thursdays he is paid directly and not through the hospital’s financial office. I suspect that this is an arrangement done to give the doctor extra income above his staff salary. I also suspect that if one chooses to see the doctor on that day (when calling for the appointment one is warned that Thursday is this doctor’s private hours), the reimbursement is less than on other days (I understand that seeing a doctor other than your regular one for a non-emergency consultation is reimbursed at 50% rather than the 100% minus one euro).
We rented a wheelchair (16€ per week) which my wife had to use because she does not have upper body strength and she has plantar fasciitis on the heel of her “good” foot. Moreover, crutches could not be used for long distances such as going to the market, or a flower show, or a pottery exhibit--all of which we did.
All in all, the 5 weeks of medical care (ER, doctor, daily nurses, prescriptions, blood tests every five days) cost us about 800€, fully reimbursed by Kaiser minus its standard co-pay, although in one instance at a very disadvantageous rate.
Apr 29th, 2011, 09:34 AM
#28
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My friend was recently in Paris and went to a hospital for bronchitis. The hospital wanted a deposit to admit him, which he paid. Said he had some of the best food he had in Paris. He only stayed for two days, and when discharged, he got some of his deposit back as the bill wasn`t that high.
Apr 29th, 2011, 10:18 AM
#29
Re: evacuation insurance. Definitely read the fine print, but consider how much it would cost if you needed to fly home on a stretcher, or with a nurse in attendance.
When I broke my wrist in Switzerland, I called my insurance company from the hospital, AFTER surgery, and they arranged for a car and driver to collect me after I left the hospital and drive me to Geneva airport, and provided economy class tickets to get me home. No deductible, no co-pay. (My regular medical insurance covered the hospital bills minus co-pay. It cost about the same for the treatment in Switzerland - X-rays, surgery under general anesthetic, night in the hospital, etc - as it did for out-patient surgery in the US to remove the pins. US costs are ridiculous - so much for "competition".)
When I broke my wrist in Switzerland, I called my insurance company from the hospital, AFTER surgery, and they arranged for a car and driver to collect me after I left the hospital and drive me to Geneva airport, and provided economy class tickets to get me home. No deductible, no co-pay. (My regular medical insurance covered the hospital bills minus co-pay. It cost about the same for the treatment in Switzerland - X-rays, surgery under general anesthetic, night in the hospital, etc - as it did for out-patient surgery in the US to remove the pins. US costs are ridiculous - so much for "competition".)
Apr 29th, 2011, 05:18 PM
#30
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I can't imagine how health insurance for a month could possibly cost $14,000 - unless both of the parties have serious pre-existing conditions.
When I was free-lancing my medical insurance (complete coverage, $500 deductible and $2500 max out of pocket for the year, with my choice of any MD I wanted at 80%/20% of usual charges) was only $1300 per month.
When I was free-lancing my medical insurance (complete coverage, $500 deductible and $2500 max out of pocket for the year, with my choice of any MD I wanted at 80%/20% of usual charges) was only $1300 per month.
Apr 29th, 2011, 05:21 PM
#31
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Oh - and most US policies (except Medicare, Medicaid and straight HMO plans, which are very unusual) almost always cover treatment ex-US. Yu just have to pay for it yourself and then file with them. the only catch is getting the proper procedure coding.
I have only used an MD once abroad - in Paris - when I had bronchitis. the hotel got me an appointment with their MD and the whole thing - visit and antibiotics cost only about $50.
I have only used an MD once abroad - in Paris - when I had bronchitis. the hotel got me an appointment with their MD and the whole thing - visit and antibiotics cost only about $50.
Apr 30th, 2011, 02:16 AM
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What cn we distill from this?
1. You can almost certainly get emergency care, whether illness or injury, free or for a nominal fee.
2. If you have chronic illnesses (asthma attacks etc, really anything you could anticipate), you should have insurance for treatment. My BCBS Medicare supplement covers treatment abroad.
3. If you have a history, either your own or family, of heart attack or stroke, you should strongly consider air evacuation insurance. There is no need for it because the standard of medical care in Europe is excellent, but most people prefer being at home in such situations.
What does medevac cost? We were on a BA flight where a patient and his/her litter and nurse-attendant occupied three full rows of seats. Not cheap since they could not be booked in advance, and the nurse had to fly back to Europe. A relative spent $70,000 to air evac her husband by private medical jet after a stroke, cash in advance, thank you.
1. You can almost certainly get emergency care, whether illness or injury, free or for a nominal fee.
2. If you have chronic illnesses (asthma attacks etc, really anything you could anticipate), you should have insurance for treatment. My BCBS Medicare supplement covers treatment abroad.
3. If you have a history, either your own or family, of heart attack or stroke, you should strongly consider air evacuation insurance. There is no need for it because the standard of medical care in Europe is excellent, but most people prefer being at home in such situations.
What does medevac cost? We were on a BA flight where a patient and his/her litter and nurse-attendant occupied three full rows of seats. Not cheap since they could not be booked in advance, and the nurse had to fly back to Europe. A relative spent $70,000 to air evac her husband by private medical jet after a stroke, cash in advance, thank you.
Apr 30th, 2011, 02:28 AM
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I have a year round, world wide travel insurance policy covering me for medical care and travel home, travel delay, loss and damage of property and money while away, for less than £100. I've claimed twice, one for stolen money and once for a damaged camera lens.
I can't understand anyone traveling without insurance and I'm a UK citizen with reciprocal medical treatment agreements with EU countries....
My Aussie boyfriend's Father needed to travel back to Oz from Europe with a doctor after a non pre-existing condition developed while he was away, all paid for by insurance.
On another trip his Mum broke her ankle, which required a hospital stay. This caused them to miss their return flights, and insurance paid for his Father's extra hotel nights and the change of flights, as well as her medical care.
It's such a small amount to pay for peace of mind.
I can't understand anyone traveling without insurance and I'm a UK citizen with reciprocal medical treatment agreements with EU countries....
My Aussie boyfriend's Father needed to travel back to Oz from Europe with a doctor after a non pre-existing condition developed while he was away, all paid for by insurance.
On another trip his Mum broke her ankle, which required a hospital stay. This caused them to miss their return flights, and insurance paid for his Father's extra hotel nights and the change of flights, as well as her medical care.
It's such a small amount to pay for peace of mind.
Apr 30th, 2011, 03:54 AM
#34
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Me too Ali. It's peanuts really.
It's a shame that this thread is focussing so heavily on the risk aspect of whether or not to take out insurance, and not the moral aspect of taking advantage of European healthcare without paying for it, if you come from a country with no reciprocal ageement and that wouldn't provide free emergancy healthcare for overseas visitors itself. No wonder people get angry on these threads.
It's a shame that this thread is focussing so heavily on the risk aspect of whether or not to take out insurance, and not the moral aspect of taking advantage of European healthcare without paying for it, if you come from a country with no reciprocal ageement and that wouldn't provide free emergancy healthcare for overseas visitors itself. No wonder people get angry on these threads.
Apr 30th, 2011, 06:08 PM
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<i>and not the moral aspect of taking advantage of European healthcare without paying for it</i>
It makes it sound as though we are talking about medical tourism. I offered to pay in Italy and was turned down. I paid in France what others pay, and I suspect that some of the VAT that I pay when staying in France does support the health system. Having travel/health insurance would not have changed either medical payments. "Taking advantage" is a red herring unless one is talking of medical tourism, and even then, it clearly is something that is seen benignly by the country offering it--I am thinking of medical tourism to Thailand, dental tourism to Hungary, etc.
It makes it sound as though we are talking about medical tourism. I offered to pay in Italy and was turned down. I paid in France what others pay, and I suspect that some of the VAT that I pay when staying in France does support the health system. Having travel/health insurance would not have changed either medical payments. "Taking advantage" is a red herring unless one is talking of medical tourism, and even then, it clearly is something that is seen benignly by the country offering it--I am thinking of medical tourism to Thailand, dental tourism to Hungary, etc.
Aug 26th, 2013, 03:17 PM
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You have to consider quality of care. My friend was hospitalized in Paris with an intestinal obstruction. They operated and my friend was worse and in ICU. Luckily his son was an internist in NY and flew to help. He came to the conclusion they had botched the surgery and immediately put him on a private jet to NY. He's fine but the bill for the jet and the Paris charges was $ 100,000. His son says he might not have survived if his son had not intervened. You can get insurance for $ 400 a year that will fly you home in a private jet with medical care while you are in the air should you become seriously ill anywhere in the world.
Aug 27th, 2013, 05:10 AM
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France has the best public healthcare system in the world. Ireland does not. The situation is not straightforward but broadly speaking, the only people who are exempt from paying for their medical treatments are citizens on very low incomes or on social welfare who are eligible for a medical card. Everyone else has to pay!
If you are admitted as an emergency patient to a public A&E hospital ward you will be charged €100. After that you could be faced with a long wait, post triage, before you are seen by a doctor. This can be as long as 24 hours sitting on a chair in an overcrowded A&E department if your case is not life-threatening. When you are finally admitted you can opt for a private ward if you want to pay for it, or if you are covered by your insurance. The quality of care, whether you opt for public or private is identical, but you may have a single room or be sharing with one or two others if you opt for private. As a tourist, you will be charged for any procedures that you will need while in hospital, any consultants that you will see and a charge of €75 per day for every day that you stay.
If you are admitted by ambulance you will go through the public health system - ambulances do not service private hospitals.
Alternatively, you can opt for admission to a private hospital - but their A&E departments are not open around the clock. This is where your health insurance will come in very handy. Waiting times in the A&E will not be as long as in a public hospital, and in addition, you will have a nicer room and nicer food if you have to stay there. In addition to the charges laid out above re the public hospitals, you will pay through the nose for the nice room and better food. Again, this can be claimed back on your insurance.
If you need to attend a GP the fee will be between €40-€60 per visit and you will be charged for a prescription in the pharmacy should you need one.
As a tourist, you will not be able to "take advantage" of healthcare while you are in Ireland. You will have to pay for any and all procedures that you will need. It may not be as expensive as in the US but it will add up. It is essential that you make sure that you are covered by your insurance.
If you are admitted as an emergency patient to a public A&E hospital ward you will be charged €100. After that you could be faced with a long wait, post triage, before you are seen by a doctor. This can be as long as 24 hours sitting on a chair in an overcrowded A&E department if your case is not life-threatening. When you are finally admitted you can opt for a private ward if you want to pay for it, or if you are covered by your insurance. The quality of care, whether you opt for public or private is identical, but you may have a single room or be sharing with one or two others if you opt for private. As a tourist, you will be charged for any procedures that you will need while in hospital, any consultants that you will see and a charge of €75 per day for every day that you stay.
If you are admitted by ambulance you will go through the public health system - ambulances do not service private hospitals.
Alternatively, you can opt for admission to a private hospital - but their A&E departments are not open around the clock. This is where your health insurance will come in very handy. Waiting times in the A&E will not be as long as in a public hospital, and in addition, you will have a nicer room and nicer food if you have to stay there. In addition to the charges laid out above re the public hospitals, you will pay through the nose for the nice room and better food. Again, this can be claimed back on your insurance.
If you need to attend a GP the fee will be between €40-€60 per visit and you will be charged for a prescription in the pharmacy should you need one.
As a tourist, you will not be able to "take advantage" of healthcare while you are in Ireland. You will have to pay for any and all procedures that you will need. It may not be as expensive as in the US but it will add up. It is essential that you make sure that you are covered by your insurance.
