Hello everyone,
I am new to the forum. I will be taking a trip with a group of people to Europe in June 2007. I have been a few times before, but never with a large group. I prefer to do my own planning since I have had success with that in the past and don't like the idea of a set timeline with a tour. I do have some questions around discounts for large groups and would appreciate any feedback. Here goes -

1. I am interested in any information concerning group discounts for airlines, hotels, and trains. We will be staying for 16 days. Maximum of 4 cities. One of those cities will be Rome. Other possibilities include Munich, London, Paris, Hamburg, Zurich, Florence, Berchtesgaden/Salzburg. We are planning to travel by train vs. car rentals and will probably schedule some overnight travel via train. Any suggestions on where to go to get this type of information?

2. When is the best time to book tickets to get the best value?

Thanks in advance for any responses!

What is the size of your group? How many people? What is their age? Does anyone have disabilities?

Rome is very far south in Europe. Are you asking for information about cheap air fares flying north, or are you committed to getting everybody on a train to the northern destinations you have mentioned?

Hello nessundorma,
Answers -
Group will be 12 - 20 people.
Ages - Adults are 40 - 50 years old, children ranging from 8 - 18 years old.
Disabilities - my daughter is mentally retarded. We will use a wheel chair when she gets tired. Actually, she will be the best traveller in the group (i.e., no whining, complaining.....)
Travel to and from Rome - I am thinking overnight train or having Rome as our first/last stop on the trip. I am asking for airline group discounts to and from the U.S.

Hope this helps make things clear and thanks for your response!

One possibility might be

London - Paris - Florence - Rome

flying into London and out of Rome (although some other open-jaw arrangement could work).

Then you could take the Eurostar train between London and Paris (3 hour journey - you could also fly this if you want). You could take EasyJet between Paris and Pisa airport, which is convenient for Florence (probably about a 90-minute flight, but I haven't checked). You could then take the train between Florence and Rome (90 minute journey on Eurostar - note that it's not the same "Eurostar" as between London and Paris).

You would minimize travel time and cost with an itinerary like this.

16 days, 12-20 people, aged 8-50. I personally don't think you want to move around so much. And I <b>DEFINITELY</b> don't think an overnight train makes any sense. Many people can't sleep on a train and in a group as diverse as this one the chances are several are not &quot;train sleepers&quot;.

The largest group I've taken to Europe is 13 adults mostly aged from early 3o's to early 50's plus one 80 year old. We went just 2 places in 2 weeks (a week in London and a week in the Cotswolds). Even w/ a simple itinerary like that the logistics were very complicated.

Do NOT expect everyone to be little Mary Sunshine every day - especially when trying to herd them to train stations and airports in 4 different cities.

Florence and especially Rome are a long way from the other places you mention.

So for a 2+ week trip I would pick one country (or possibly 2 if they are adjacent to each other) and base yourselves in one place for at LEAST 5 days at a time. Then 2's and 3's or family groups can take their own day trips from that base. Don't even try to keep all of you together 24/7.

12 really isn't enough to get a big discount from most airlines. I would really turn your air requirement over to a travel agent. This is one of the few situations where a TA can do better than an individual.

meant to add -- London/Paris plus a couple of days in one other town in England or in France would be the easiest itinerary.

Or Rome/Florence w/ maybe a couple of days in Venice.

Or Munich and Bavaria in general, plus Salzburg/Vienna

These are the types of itineraries that make sense.

also - consider renting a large villa or house in one city for a week. It will work out cheaper than hotels.

I have considerable experience with this, and it's hard to provide an answer to your several questions (of 250 words or less) without knowing more about the makeup of the group - - specifically, how are the members of the group related to each other? how did the group come together? and first and foremost whose idea was this? Is that person a committee of one (or two, with you) in shaping the logistics of the trip?

Some generalizations: you will need to do some phone legwork with several different airlines, once you have one (or several) leading plans for general dates and candidate gateway airports (arrival in Europe, departure from Europe) - - and will everyone leave the US from the same airport at the same time? The answer to this lattr question does not have to be yes, but it will make a big difference (make the plan much easier) if at least ten people are flying together on the same trnocenic flight (ideally, the same ten people returning on the same transoceanic flght also). You need to speak to the group desk, and there are some important differences from buying tickets in quantities fewer than 10.

The bad news first: you may not be able to get the very lowest fares for th city pairs on the dates you are flying - - and you just about have to block that out of your mind, because they simply won't sell you that many tickets at some very deep discounted price, so forget that those cheap fares exist. The group desk will give you the best price you can get, for the number of seats you can get - - and special promotions notwithstanding - - it will still be discounted typically 10-15%.

Now for the good news: you will get this discounted fare, without having to put down all the money up front. Moreover, you don't have to even give the names up front. You are allowed to have some fluidity in the group - - crucial in case there are some maybe's (and alternates in place if some cancel). They will typically tolerate one cancellation for evrey 12 passengers without penalizing you. Don't forget to ask if they could sell you any &quot;discover Europe&quot; flight segments cheaply, especially if is an airline with a presence IN Europe: BA, KL, LH for example, but good chances with numerous others.

Ground transportation options are something you build on, after you have your ir travel frmework. You have mentioned rentals. Who is willing to dsrive? and how will you deal with the liability issues? Familymembers traveling together in the same vehicle present as close to zero difficulty as I can think of, but you may be able to get &quot;family-like&quot; agreements in other cases. Train certainly has its merits, but nothing beats the freedom of rented vehicles. You will need to do some very explicit instructing about traveling light.

The master budget, and money handling, broadly speaking, has to be addressed up front. I recommend trying to set a fixed &quot;price&quot;, if the group will go for that, and defining what it will cover. I have found it useful to set up a bar/wine &quot;kitty&quot;, and use subtle peer pressure to guide who needs to contribute how much into the kitty, how often. You, or one interested person should manage this, and,I found it useful to simply announce every dinner, how much got spent from the kitty, and how much it received/has left. Some will contribute generously, some miserly, and some (appropriately (none at all). Ope communication will hopefully minimize the squabbling over this.

Last of all, unless totally inappropriate (tight-knit church or family group), I would be somewhat interested in throwing my hat into the ring as a co-planner/co-participant, totally uncompensated, totally on my own dime. I love this kind of travel, especially if there are newbies in the group. This is a serious offer, if it is a fit - - both regarding the dates, an the makeup of your group).

Generally, I prefer ON forum communication, since veryone on the forum learns from the exchange of information, but you are welcome to contact me off forum also (by e-mail or telephone), if there are reasons to prefer that.

Best wishes,

Rex

Have you thought of chartering a bus? I'd certainly look at it rather than trying to get everyone on a train and , more imortantly, off the train at any intermediate stop.

Fibonacci:

Eh? What's the problem in getting 20 people on and off a train? I was fortunate enough recently to be invited on a 50-person several-country jolly. Its extraordinary painlessness came from the fact that practically all the travelling was by train. The closest we got to unpleasantness was the relative shock of having to trade down to buses for a couple of connections.

Thanks for the responses! I agree on the comment about &quot;little Mary sunshine&quot;. I travelled with 8 people to Europe for 3 weeks so I have experience with a group and herding them (me, my wife, daughters, my 2 sisters, mother-in-law, and sister-in law). Guarantee you that it was more difficult to herd them then the people I will be going with this time.... I am interested in opinions so keep them coming.... My opinion is that 4 cities should be workable with the number of people.

Also interested in opinions on trains vs. airplanes from convenience and cost perspective. I do have a lot of experience travelling. i.e., travelling consultant every week for over 8 years.

Thanks again for all the responses!

The US airlines all have a group reservation desk and will give a discount. You must be booking at least 10 people on the same itinerary. Most have a phone number on their website.

For budget airlines in Europe - www.whichbudget.com. They have very good prices but very strict check-in times and luggage weight restrictions.

A co-worker went to Rome in October with a group of 20 and they stayed at Hotel Sonya. They were able to get a group rate. www.hotelsonya.it

Hello everyone,
I appreciate all the feedback. Here's some responses to the questions -

To WillTravel - Yep, we are looking at itineraries. Your suggestion may be the way we go. BTW - What is an &quot;open-jaw&quot; arrangement?

To Rex - The makeup of the group is people from church. I have quite a bit of experience travelling in my job (close to being a million miler on Delta) and for pleasure plus I am a European historian (one of my college degrees and hobby). Therefore, I am the guy doing the planning. My wife made fun of me because I had a 100+ page itinerary for our last European trip with the family. After we were done, she was happy that I had planned out the detail with enough flexibility so all 8 of us were happy with the trip.... Concerning the flights for the group....we may split if the pricing is better. It's an option. Also, while I appreciate your offer, we are a church group that would probably drive others crazy....

To janisj - Appreciate all your input. I've done more than 4 cities in this timeframe with groups up to 8. My opinion is that it is workable. I do appreciate your opinion and suggestions on cities.

To kybourbon - thanks for the links! I will check them out.

Once again, thanks for all the feedback!

An open-jaw flight just means you fly into one city, and out of another city. So you could get an airline ticket where you fly into London, and out of Rome, for example, with the transport in-between being your responsibility and choice.

Thanks WillTravel! Been there, done that....wasn't familiar with the term. Thanks!