Thanks for that Clousie. The trip report is there - if you hover over the title of the report in your post an underscore will appear and then one can click the link.

Oh, thanks, Mel.

I also wanted to say that I enjoyed your trip report very much. You were giving your honest opinions and that is what trip reports should be and I know that is what you always post. Especially when you give reasons for your opinions, that is very helpful. Sorry some people didn't like your comments. By now we are fairly familiar with poster's preferences and I always use that as a filter when reading a report. I didn't feel as though yours changed for this report and would find it helpful if planning a trip there.

I didn't realize you didn't have a car on this trip until I looked back at your report. Now I see why you were more confined to larger cities/towns. I'm very glad we had one so we could get out into rural areas, but it also created some funny stories. Dare I mention that we zipped through many tolls without paying until my friend read in Rick Steeves to beware of doing that. We really are not stupid people, but just mis-interpreted the signage. Don't ask what our thinking was on that, except that we had a very large toll to pay when we finally got off the toll road. We also encountered gridlock on a back street intersection in Sintra and this brash American got out and directed traffic to clear it! We could still be sitting there and I'm sure the box truck drivers have good stories to tell about that.

Hope you find a peaceful place for you GF trip.

Sue54:

With regard to Lisbon restaurants, when I was there in the spring of 2019 I had very positive experiences at Bastardo, which is on the second floor of the International Design Hotel on the southeast corner of Rossio Square (with large picture windows looking out across the square) and at Peixola, a very nouvelle fish restaurant on the west side of the Rua do Alecrim (the right side as you're walking towards the bay, a couple of blocks down from the Praca de Camoes (basically, where the Chiado meets the Bica districts). Bastardo describes itself as "the bastard child of traditional Portuguese cooking," which means it takes traditional dishes and applies creative new twists. Some photos are attached below.



The interior of Bastardo

Bastardo: very tender pork dish with banana chips and guava



Dessert, Bastardo-style: a lemon and cinnamon mousseline with powdered chocolate and dulche de leche


Peixola, with its U-shaped dining bar and the kitchen in the back


Peixola: cod fritters

Mel, I have just finished reading your great detailed report as part of planning a trip for April 2023. I am having major second thoughts about Lisbon/Sintra. The crowds and lines sound horrid. I would not enjoy it. I chose April thinking it was “pre-season”. Ha!

MyBaggage -

My more detailed report can be found here.

I left my liver in Lisbon

We too, chose April hoping to avoid the crowds....NOT.

I'll admit, we found the crowds suffocating, and Lisbon and Sintra were the worst of it. Having said that, we did enjoy our stay for the most part. If we were to return, which is highly unlikely, (Porto excepted) we'd go as much off season as absolutely possible. Maybe November-Feb.

Our trip to Portugal was much less relaxing than say, our trips to Switzerland, where we really feel like we 're on holiday. Portugal, for whatever reason, felt like work.

MyBaggage, for another perspective , we loved Lisbon and Sintra and would love to return. We visited in April 2018 but we were there after Easter. The crowds were not suffocating. So perhaps after Easter would be bettter. Different people have different levels of tolerance for crowds, however. The only place we had to wait in line was the Jeronimos Monastery.

You can click on my name to read m trip report if you wish.

We were there in May and it was crowded, though I’d say Lisbon can absorb the crowds better as it’s a big city. Sintra is a small city and the main sights were very crowded, although it is possible to see them despite the crowds, either by going very early or very late. Or, in the case of the Pena Palace, one can enjoy the exterior without going inside. In fact, we did enter the interior but the crowds were terrible and we crawled though a few rooms before we asked if we could leave. We actually arrived at the National Palace at the end of the day and it was practically empty! We really enjoyed it. Personally, I wouldn’t want to visit Sintra on a day trip. We stayed 3 nights, and that allowed us to approach the sights at a comfortable pace.

I do think that this past spring, after 2 years of COVID restrictions, there was a surge in travel, and it seems Portugal was one of the places that everyone wanted to visit! This is anecdotal, of course, but in every conversation I had with someone about travel, I’d hear about someone who is traveling to Portugal! It seemed to be the country of the moment! So crowds may’ve been especially bad this year. Whether it will continue to be like that, who knows?

One could always alleviate some of the crowdage by including the isle of Madeira on the itinerary.
I am done. the rainwater

Thank you, Mel, Karen, and Progol for your feedback, I expect to be “working” while planning a trip, but not while I am executing the plan. This trip is a milestone birthday celebration. For my last milestone birthday I really wanted to be in Venice ON my June birthday. No, no, no, was all of the advice I got. Too hot, too crowded, and too stinky in June. After time in northern Italy alone, I met my daughter in Venice where I had rented an apartment for a week. Our quiet apartment was a 5-minute walk from busy San Marco Piazza. We explored the major sights before 10 and after 4:00, thus avoiding the boat people, while exploring elsewhere and doing a day trip to Padua. One exception, stand in line at noon to see the cathedral illuminated for one hour - worth the wait. But I can’t recall many places that required tickets, so maybe not a great comparison. Oh yes, it was hot, but there were no canal odors anywhere! It was a wonderful, fun, and relaxing, week.

For this trip, I am definitely doing 7-10 days in Andalucia. But it is with a very small tour (6 max) staying in one central location. Not sure that appeals to my daughter, I am interested in Lisbon, so is she, thus, the added 7 days for Lisbon, in an apartment. Including an overnight in Sintra, maybe a day trip to Obidos. She and I have similar travel preferences and we would both be miserable as melnq8 describes her journey in Lisbon/Sintra.

So, maybe I should simply expand my Spain itinerary.

Zebec - I am sure I would enjoy Madeira. But most likely on a return trip. Thanks for the idea.

I think Progol is correct when she says that Portugal was/is the country of the moment for 2022. It’s an easy trip from the east coast of the US, and it’s much less expensive than other major European countries and capitals. Whether it will be just as bad in 2023 is anyone’s guess.

I don’t like to try to convince someone to go somewhere they are very hesitant about and you do seem hesitant to go to Portugal because of the crowds. Spending more time in Andalusia is an excellent suggestion, and spring is one of the best times to travel to Andalusia because the temps are still comfortable. You could spend more time in Granada and Cordoba. We also really enjoyed Malaga, and it’s nice to have the coastal ambience. There is a lot to see and do in Malaga. We spent 2 nights in Malaga and wished we had an extra night. I haven’t been to Cadiz but I hear wonderful things about it.

Have you been to Madrid and Toledo? That would be another excellent choice, too.

Personally, between a visit to Andalucia and a visit to Lisbon/Sintra, it’s no contest for me. We absolutely loved Andalucia - it was one of our top trips ever - and, while we enjoyed our trip to Portugal, including Lisbon/Sintra, it didn’t ever “knock our socks off” so to speak. I think Seville is one of the most gorgeous and liveable cities, with lots to do, and every town in Andalusia is amazing. And I completely agree with KarenWoo’s suggestion for Madrid and Toledo (and we loved Toledo, too).

And again, the experience is so subjective. What we love and what we don’t is a personal reaction at a given time to a place.

Nice to hear all the positive feedback about Andalusia - headed there in October.

Mel, maybe consider including Arcos (de la Frontera) as part of your trip, an under-rated town if ever. Our fave place in Spain.
I am done. the flamingo flamenco

Ah zebec, we've already booked. Barcelona, Seville, Granada and Madrid. So many places, so little time.

KarenWoo and progol - more of Andalucia is sounding good, very good. My neighbor was dismissive about Madrid - “too dirty”. But so many here are raving about it! But then my neighbor tends to do laundry list travel - I like to hang out in a place for a bit. Time to get a book about southern Spain!

We visited Madrid in 2017 and I certainly did not think it was dirty at all. If you like art museums, Madrid is the place to visit for its outstanding art museums. We enjoyed the Prado more than the Louvre. Also loved the Reina Sofia where you can see Picasso’s Guernica. Visited the Royal Palace, Temple Debod, and the market. Loved Retiro Park which is a great place for hanging out and drinking Sangria. There are many more museums that we didn’t have the time to visit.

Definitely buy yourself a good guidebook or two. I typically use Lonely Planet, Fodors, and Michelin Green Guide.

And again, KarenWoo and I are in agreement! Madrid is a beautiful city! The art museums in Madrid are second to none!

I’m glad you’re thinking of more time in Andalucia. You won’t regret it.

In Lisbon, we booked advance tickets for everything we could. We were the first people in the castle in the morning. Advance tickets, plus dinner reservations, lets you avoid crowds and waits.

I may have a controversial view of Sintra. I don't think it is really worth the stress. Of course, what I enjoy is history. Most of the things to view in Sintra are over the top buildings constructed by folks with a whole lot of money, not all that long ago. I personally would rather walk through old castle ruins or old churches than over the top houses. But that's just me.

While I was there, I was constantly thinking of ways to change the Sintra experience to make it less hectic, esp. the Pena Palace...quadruple the ticket price and reduce the number of visitors by 75%. Provide transportation by means of shuttles to and from a parking lot on the outskirts of town.

Anyway, if you are concerned about crowds, book everything you can in advance and arrive a few minutes before opening time.

<<I may have a controversial view of Sintra. I don't think it is really worth the stress. Of course, what I enjoy is history. Most of the things to view in Sintra are over the top buildings constructed by folks with a whole lot of money, not all that long ago. I personally would rather walk through old castle ruins or old churches than over the top houses. But that's just me.>>

I tend to agree with you. The popular houses are not old structures, but private fantasy houses. The places that meant the most to us were the National Palace, the Moorish castle, and Monserrate, though not old, is a stunning house in beautiful surroundings, and a short distance out of town. But Sintra was pleasanter in the evening after the hordes left, and we enjoyed it as a first stop.