mariha2912

And then one of your other children will decide to see Turkey and you will start trying to fit in Turkey as well?
You can do as much in the time you have, trying to fit in everything will end up on a trip remembering trains, airports, ferry rides but not much more! My first impression on your original post was that you want to enjoy some quality time as a family, not hurring from one place to another! Please try to clarify your priorities, then start planning properly your itenerary.
A side note: Been on a budget means nothing. Please give us an approximate ammount in euros to work with and advice you accordingly.Eg how much per night for accomondation for all of you, how much for local attractions/site tickets,how much for food and so on... As far as accomondation in the Greek islands go, I don't think you will find many "appartments" for 5 people around. Not cheap ones at least! With carefull planning you may find a triple and a twin rooms to let side by side, featuring a small kitchenette, for as low as 50-60 euro/day total on June or early July. This needs much of research on your part though!

Mimar

Yes, don't start expanding your trip. The 18-year-old has his whole life to visit Italy. Is he going to college? Maybe he can do a semester abroad there.

Asstd. thoughts:

In Paris in later July they turn a stretch of the Seine into a beach, the Paris Plages (Actually 2 stretches). For if your teens get beach deprived.

From Naxos, Paros, and Mykonos you can take a day trip to the island of Delos, an important classical site. You can only visit the island on day trips; check which days of the week the boat leaves from your base island. For your son who likes Greek ruins.

Christina

Given you have to land in Paris due to your tickets, I myself don't see any big problem with spending a few days there first before going to Greece. I don't see anything wrong with it at all, otherwise the trip will be very very long and you'll spend more time being zombies, I think. YOu don't have to spend days being zombies, I don't and I'm a lot older, of course, than your kids. Besides, you have a lot of complicated stuff planned for Greece, just spending a few days in Paris in a hotel and seeing a few typical things won't be that difficult.

Don't agree with the idea of the Paris "plage" substituting for a beach. It is not a beach, it is basically sand trucked in along the Seine. There is no beach, it's just for people who like to sunbathe and hang out along a river in the summer. So if your kids really want a beach, that is not it.

travelgirl2

It would complicate things, but if my 18 year old wanted to see Italy, I'd probably work it in, if at all possible.

zeppole

Consider flying from Paris to Naples, which has so much Greek history, especially if you include a trip to Paestum. From Naples, fly to Athens.

To cut down on costs, don't stay on the Amalfi coast. Pick a town like Minori or Cetera much closer to Salerno, or stay on the Sorrentine peninsula. The greek temple in Paestum is much better preserved than most in Greece, and there is of course Pompeii.

Suzbrownie

Hello Again, in answer to some of your responses I have done a bunch of research on costs of traveling with our three children on a budget. Bottom line are hoping to be able to 3 weeks on 7,300 eur/10K US which is looking possible if I have the following breakdown of costs accurate.

PARIS 4 nights/5 days:

Apts I've found have quoted: 440 eur for 4 nights (18th Arrondissement next to famous flea market or the 11th Bastille/Gare de Lyon area - can anyone speak to these neighborhoods for a family?

Food per person: 50 euros pp per day (less if we eat breakfast in our apt?)

Sightseeing: 70 euros pp based on the following attractions:

Louvre -9 eur p/p adult (under 18 free - really?!
Eiffle Tower- many ways to do this apparently but if all 5 of us go to the top it is 65eur/close to $100 US. yikes!
Notre-Dame - apparently free unless we go up into the towers - is these not to be missed?
catacombs - 6 eur pp
Seine River cruise (w/out dinner) 10 eur pp
bike tour - 24 eur p/p or 28 eur at night and includes boat trip (by the way - would you put your 14 year old on one of these bike tours? I've read that biking in Paris is not for the faint of heart - she can ride, but she's no expert adventure seeker by ANY means. Is all of that just hype?
Versailles- 15 eur per adult, kids free - REALLY? is this accurate info? It was recommended to buy a Forfait pass for 22 eur = train out there and admission; have you heard of this?

Which brings me to transportation costs in Paris: We intend to use public transportation touring around as well as getting to and from CDG airport. There seems to be so many options, passes, etc. I'm not sure which is the most affordable way to go here. Have you heard of Cart Orange sold only Mon-Wed? AM I SAFE W/ 20 EUR PER PERSON HERE?

SPending money for kids: 10 eur pp per day?

GREECE:

Airfare from Paris to Athens: very hard to find ANY pricing for next summer! researching info from last summer, Easter, Christmas -High season rates, I am guessing it to be approx. 145 eur p/p. Is this a safe hunch on the cheaper airlines? And should we book these tickets on the internet here or buy them when we get to Paris?

Apt & hotels - 75 - 110 eur (Athens and Islands)

Car rental for either Paros or Naxos - $41 per day (which island needs a car more?)

Public transportation: 10 eur per person per day. This was quoted on line but it didn't clarify if it was referring to only Athens/Thess vs. the islands. Is this adequate for a day of sightseeing on the islands as well?

Ferry tickets: based on three island scenario (ie.Athens, Naxos, Paros, Santorini, Athens return) 70 eur per person. Is this about right?

Food: 25 eur per person (simple breakfast, street food lunches w/beverage and moderate dinner at taverna, buying bottled water, sodas and beer from supermarkets, no sodas/beer at dinner, that sort of thing. I found this scenario on line - Is this enough money here?

Sightseeing: This is tricky to me. I've read 16 eur per person per day assuming we will see 2-3 sites per sightseeing day; which makes sense for Athens, however when we are on the islands, I find no info as to costs for historical sites (Paros, Naxos, Santorini or Milos).
I was imagining that most of the costs here would include boat, kyak and bike rentals of which I have yet to find info on the costs of these.

misc/spending money- 10 eur day p/person (this seems like a lot of spending money here - that's a lot of worry beads, tee shirts, etc. isn't it?) Again, budget scenario found on line that might prove to be helpful, or not.

Have I forgotten something?!!!

Thanks to all of you who have taken time to peruse through these tedious details of our budget - far from exciting reading! I appreciate your time and thoughts.

Best,

Suzbrownie

Heimdall

Whatever you do, don't wait until you get to Paris to book flights to Athens. a quick check on www.easyjet.com shows tickets from Paris Orly to Athens for €77 on Friday Jul 1st, but higher on the weekend. Aegean Airlines is showing flights on weekdays for around €107, but again, higher on the weekend. If you can be flexible on flight date and avoid flying on a Saturday or Sunday you can save some money.

You'll need to budget a little more for ferry tickets, probably about €100 per person for conventional ferries. That would be for four separate tickets: Piraeus>Santorini, Santorini>Naxos, Naxos>Paros, and Paros>Piraeus (or vice-versa). You can wait until you get to each island to buy ferry tickets for the next leg.

Prices for most historical sites on the islands are low, or even free. You will pay a small charge to get into museums, but many sites, e.g. the Portara and Kouros on Naxos, have no entry fee. Naxos, Paros, and Santorini all have excellent bus systems, but if you have to choose one island to rent a car, it should probably be Paros.

You can save money on food if you stay in a studio or apartment (with kitchenette) and prepare your own breakfast & lunchtime sandwiches, then splurge on your evening meal at a taverna.

teacherCanada

Suzbrownie - I've only done the Fat Tire Bike Tour in Paris. I did it with 36 high school students (split into 2 groups). We had no problems completing the tour. There were 2 girls who were quite hesitant at first, but once the group was rolling they were fine. The bikes are comfortable street cruisers, not racing bikes. The pace is leisurely, but definite. The guide stops every 15 - 20 minutes to explain what you are looking at. We did the afternoon tour, but I have heard the evening tour is very good.

If you want to blow the bank account, there is the option of taking a similar tour on Segways. We did this in Chicago and had a blast.

tC

Lexma90

I can only comment on the Paris portion of your trip; I've never been to Greece.

In Paris, for the Seine cruise, we very much like Bateaux Les Vedettes du Pont Neuf, and it's less than 10E pp if you buy them ahead of time, online. I think there's also a discount coupon you can use, if you don't want to buy online. The online tickets are for any day, any time.

Musee d'Orsay is also free for (I think) under 18 (our DD was 11yo when we visited). I would put this museum very high on the list of things to do in Paris.

Spending money for teens - have them earn and spend their own money. 10E per day seems like a huge amount, unless you include food in with that. Our kids aren't into "stuff," but we usually buy them one thing that reminds them of the trip - for DD, it's usually a scarf; her most recent cost 12E at a tourist shop. For DS, he gets a soccer shirt. Much more memorable than a T-shirt, and as soccer is not so popular in the U.S., he's gotten comments from all sorts of people over the years - those who DO recognize the team and player on his shirt.

Catacombs v. the towers of Notre Dame. Nobody in our family has ever been interested in the catacombs, but we've all loved the towers, and seeing the gargoyles up close. There's also a very good display about Victor Hugo's "The Hunchback of Notre Dame," and its effect on restoration of Notre Dame.

The bike tours sound somewhat interesting, but hopefully you'll have seen all the sites on the bike tour when you visited/gone inside, and they seem somewhat pricey (most other people seem to like these tours, as you can tell). I'd rather spend the money on French pastries (and I think my kids would, too)! They can bike at home, but they can't get those marvelous macarons and caneles!

On food, this is where we tend to spend our money, but your 50E pp per day seems do-able, especially if you eat breakfast in your apartment, and possibly do one or two picnic lunches of luscious French cheese and bread. Take the 10E per day spending money, and use it to visit a cafe or two.

Many Paris Fodorite experts can give you guidance on the location of your lodging, but a place in the 18th seems quite far away, to me. If you spent more money on a more centrally-located apartment, then possibly you could spend less money on transportation costs. We stay in the 6th (at a hotel), and walk most places. When we do ride the Metro, it's most cost-efficient for us to just buy carnets of tickets.

Nikki

I think the 11th arrondissement near the Bastille and the Gare de Lyon is a much more attractive and central location for a family than the 18th out by the flea market.

mariha2912

On my very personal point of view, it is better to cut out a couple of days on the itenerary, for example one island, and be able to spend a little bit more while there. For example it is a pitty for you and your children to find out they'd like to attend an activity or buy something you haven't think about and not been able to... A visitor I got on Naxos on summer 2009 for example, spent about 50-60 euros more than she planned on a week because she developed a great love on the Waffle House ice creams and Waffles. An other friend who visited me on Paros this summer, spent about 120 euros more in a week because she had plan to go kayaking only once, but she liked kayaking in Kolibithres so much, she went there 3 more times (and had to use the taxi boats to get there from Naoussa too). An other friend discovered there was a nice trip around Antiparos island but couldn't afford it, and kept regretting of coming in Paros in a so tight budget. Of course there is always more to see and do, and time and money are not enough, and one has to do compromises, but I still believe that you have to have some extra ammount for excursions and ice creams and shopping and stuff....

- I spent summer of 2009 working on Naxos and summer 2010 working on Paros-

I agree with Heimdall you have to save most likely about 100-120 euros for ferry tickets among Greek islands and Athens. I used Blue Star from Paros to Athens 10 days ago and it costed 29 euros one way for example.

Suzbrownie

Thanks you guys, this is great info. I see what you mean mariha2912 regarding falling in love with something and needing more money to enjoy it - good point. We in the process of making the Paris reservations, Athens reservations and now we need to make the final decision between the Greek islands we want to visit. The Naxos/Paros option or Sporades Is option, being Skiathos/Skopelos &/or Alonissos. Quite the contrasts, both beautiful!
Feedback as to which would suite us and also, ferries from Athens to the Sporades Is. is more difficult to figure out it seems, or am I just missing the obvious?

Thanks very much!

Suzanne

Heimdall

<i>...ferries from Athens to the Sporades Is. is more difficult to figure out it seems..."</i>

Nothing to figure out, really — there are no ferries from Athens to the Sporades. ;-) You can get there from Athens either by Olympic Air to Skiathos, or by bus to Agios Konstaninos connecting with a ferry to Skiathos. Ferries continue from Skiathos to Skopelos and Alonissos.

You could also check into the possibility of a charter or scheduled flight direct from Paris to Skiathos.

Suzbrownie

Thanks Heimdall - This sounds like it makes it far more difficult than jumping on a ferry to Paros/Naxos etc. or being unfamiliar with it all am I making it a big deal out of nothing?

Can you speak to either place being better for a family vacation or do they each just have their own separate charm? I find less info about activities to partake in the Sporades Is; perhaps because they are just less visited or on the other hand people may simply go to take in the sheer beauty of these islands, which is what attracts me! I'm slightly hesitant in that I wonder if the kids might become bored if there isn't some variety of interests there. Can you speak to this?

travelerjan

Suzbrownie, No, you are not making a big deal out of nothing, but you are trying to make decisions without doing a bit of homework. Do you have a Greece Map yet? Here is a good on-line map : http://www.explorecrete.com/crete-ma...ges/greece.gif (click to enlarge) Just a casual glance will show you how much more complicated it is to get to the Sporades than to the Cyclades... and your tripis complicated enough already.

About worrying if your kids will be bored, whoa. My great aunt fanny! they ought to be thrilled pink that their parents are even taking them to Europe at all instead of sticking them in Scout camp!! If they need constant diversions, they may be bored in France too... what there mainly is to do in Greece is -- swim, sun, some watersports (kayaking, windsurfing), hike, climb really high stuff, scramble around on neat ruins, hang out at ice-cream shops with other teenagers ... sometimes find a video game to play, maybe watch CNN on the hotel TV ... Greek kids never seem to be bored on Naxos or Paros that I can see, (but then maybe they're just happy at time off from helping out at the family hotel or grocery). There is no Wii in Greece, no 'waterparks' except in total 'Resort' areas ... Encourage them to bring along some games, maybe even (gasp) a book. Oh, and if you want to get them involved, how about a project to look up on the internet all the interesting sights in each destination, and take part in the planning! And finally remember, YOU are the boss.

Heimdall

Yes, it would be a little more complicated getting from Athens to the Sporades than to the Cyclades — my one visit to Skiathos was by direct flight from London. I don't know the frequency of buses to Agios Konstantinos, but there are none leaving directly from the airport.

Ferries to Paros and Naxos leave either early morning (7:00-7:30am), or afternoon (4:30-5:30pm). It's easy to get to Piraeus, where Cyclades ferries depart, from the airport.

For a family on a budget I would recommend Naxos, which has lots to do and is relatively inexpensive. If you have time for a second island, recommend Naoussa on Paros, or nearby Antiparos (a separate island, but only 30 minutes from the Paros ferry port).

MomDDTravel

I would personally not stay out in the 18th - but I have only been to Paris twice so hardly an expert. I would stay closer in, the 1rst, 5th or 6th.

Christina

I am no expert on greek islands, was just there once and for a few days on a cruise.

But for Paris, that apt in the 18th is barely even in Paris, don't take it. It's in Cignancourt, not even that nice an area, but it says near the "famous flea market" which means it is almost outside Paris. I wouldn't ever stay in the 18th in your situation, but if yu were going to, it should be much farther south down near Abbesses or something like that.

As for metro tickets and passes, I think people worry about that way too much. There isn't any such thing as the Carte Orange any more, so your info source is pretty old. I wouldn't worry about those residential metro passes (like that one or the one that replaces it) when you are only there several days, as you need extra photos to make a proper ID i fyou get such passes and other things, and it won't necessarily pay depending on the dates you stay, anyway.

The catacombs should be a secondary diversion for those who are really interested in urban renewal and history or something like that, not just for people looking for amusing diversions and thinking dead skeletons are funny. It isn't supposed to be an amusement park, it's the interrment site for a lot of people and should be respected. I can't tell you how many people have no respect for the dead and remark about how "spooky" it was and how they treated it like some Disneyland attraction. I'm sorry, but it really annoys me when people have no interest in what they are doing and why and don't even bother to learn what something is, and dont' visit it for anything but touristic diversions as a game.

Michel_Paris

I'd also suggest something a bit more central. The Metro/RER/bus system is very good, but being able to walk to some would be nice.

For a short period of time, I see no reason to get any special pass. A carnet (book of 10) Metro tickets, good for Metro and buses costs 12 euros. So staying central and with some walking, you could last 5 days on each carnet per person.

I'll ditto what some have recommended here..Fat Bike Tours, Segway Tour, possibly sewer tour, possible Catacombs tour, possible Chocolate tour (Paris Walks). There is even a Friday roller blading event. Seine Cruise (Vedettes du Pont Neuf), Eiffel Tower,shopping in Marais, etc.. There is also a good science museum:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parc_de_la_Villette

travelgirl2

I know you are trying to stay under budget, but I would spend more for a nice, centrally located apartment where 5 people can be comfortable and have easy access to the sights. I think your apartment budget is quite low.