michaelpianko

I am thinking of visiting Greece in late September-October, traveling alone. My interests are museums, historical or archaeological sites, monuments, scenery. My budget is about $3,000 US dollars (or less in Euros). This amount is supposed to cover airplane tickets to and from Detroit, food and water, lodging places, site and museum entrance fees, and transportation within Greece. I am a 34 year old single man. I don't drink and I try to avoid cigarette smoke. I would like to stay in hostels or the cheapest loging places. I am on a diet and usually I want to buy food from fruit markets or grocery stores instead of having to eat restaurant food. I already went to Italy alone, in July (even though my mother thinks I am totally nuts for traveling alone); I spent just under $3,000 US dollars total. I did not rent a car in Italy. Do I need to rent a car in Greece? It looks like Greece does not have a train system like in Italy. Should I spend less time in Santorini and another day in Athens? Would I have a better time on Crete instead of Santorini? Any other observations? This is just a hypothesis; I could change my mind. I can request no more than ten weekdays off of work. 
 
Supposed partial itinerary 
Day 1, Saturday: Leave from Detroit metro airport. 
1st night, sleep (or not sleep) on the airplane
Sunday: Arrive in Athens about 9am and 12 noon. Airplane to Santorini. 
Sleep in Santorini 2nd night
Monday: Santorini. Sleep in Santorini 3rd night
Tuesday: Santorini. Sleep in Santorini 4th night
Wednesday: Santorini. Sleep in Santorini 5th night
 
Supposed list of what to see or walk past on Santorini:
Ancient Thira
Museum of prehistoric Fira
If time, Megaro Gyzi museum
Akrotiri site
Possibly Ancient Thira
If time or nothing else to do, the lighthouse at the southwest tip, and/or a boat ride in the caldera, and/or more walking and sitting.
 
Thursday: airplane to Athens, bus or rental car to Delphi. 
Sleep in Delphi 6th night.
Friday: Delphi. 
Sleep in or near Delphi 7th night
Saturday:
Drive to Corinth and/or Mycenae. Drive to Nafplion on the coast in time to arrive at a logging place. 
Sleep in Nafpilon 8th night
Sunday: Day trip from Nafplion? 
Sleep in Nafplion 9th night
Monday: Another day trip from Nafplion? 
Sleep in Nafplion 10th night??
Tuesday: Bus or Rental car to Athens. Return the rental car if I have one. 
Sleep in Athens 11th night
Wednesday: Athens. Sleep in Athens 12th night
Thursday: Athens: Sleep in Athens, 13th night
Friday: Sleep in Athens 14th night
Saturday: Sleep in Athens 15th night
Sunday: Airplane back to Detroit.
 
Supposed partial list of what I probably want to see in Athens:
-Acropolis area (Parthenon, acropolis museum, other areas on the acropolis ticket as time allows); Agora museum and outdoor area; National Archaeology museum; Bernaki museums; at least briefly, the Jewish museum and if open to visitors, one or both of the synagogues just to say I saw them but not to daven (recite teh liturgies); if time, museum of popular instruments, and/or other museums or more walking.

kja

You have more than enough time for the things you list in Santorini. You might want to trim your time there to, say, 3 nights (which would, I think, be enough for what you list) because it is among the most expensive locations in Greece.

For your plans in the Peloponnese, I would think a car would be to your advantage, but check rome2rio.com for public transportation options (be sure to click through the links it provides, as the main site is not sensitive to seasonal variation) and check guidebooks like Lonely Planet or the Rough Guide to see if you have reasonable alternatives for day tours.

You might find some useful information in my trip report, even though I was not traveling on a tight budget and I had the luxury of a longer trip.
https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...-in-greece.cfm

Hope that helps!

P.S. IMO, solo travel is wonderful!

Heimdall

I agree with kja that with your interests you don't need so much time on Santorini. The island has a good bus system, so if you base yourself in Fira you could get to most other places from there. Accommodation tends to be expensive on Santorini, but I believe there are one or two hostels.

I am another solo traveler and don't like to rent a car. The KTEL bus system in Greece is excellent, and there are express buses to most major towns and cities. There are also local buses, but it may be more efficient to hire a car locally to visit outlying sites.

You could hire a car at Athens Airport for your trip to the Peloponnese, that would allow you to make the stops you've planned on the way to Nafplio. Not sure of the best way for you to get to Delphi. I've been there, but it was with an organised tour.

cirwin50

Hi there, I'm also planning for first trip to Greece as well and I found some great tips on a website that I'll pos the link to below. They've also got links that you can click to find AirBNB prices, finding tours,tips for saving money when travelling, etc. Hope this helps you the way it's helped me.http://www.pausethemoment.com/how-to...-on-the-cheap/.

cirwin50

Thanks Kja for the great tips and information on travelling to Greece

cirwin50

Hi Heimdall, do you have a link where I can find more information the KTEL bus sytem?

cirwin50

Hey Michael, I just spoke to my friend who's also giving me tips and advice on how to plan my trip and I told him that you wanted to travel on a budget and it looked like you'd been developing an itinerary of your own so far. He recommended a website to me that offers organized tours along with itineraries depending on what kind of experience you're looking for. Not sure about the budget but check it out, you might find what you're looking for. Best of luck, Charles. https://www.stridetravel.com/greece-tours.html

Heimdall

Cirwin, the KTEL buses are operated by separate regional companies, so you would have to do some Googling to find the right ones. I'll give you a few examples, though.

The KTEL service for the Nafplio area is KTEL Argolidas:
http://www.ktelargolida.gr/?module=d...s_id=3&lang=en

The KTEL service for Messinia (Kalamata) is:
http://www.ktelmessinias.gr/?module=...s_id=3&lang=en

The KTEL service for the port of Rafina (from central Athens or the airport) is:
http://ktelattikis.gr/en/

Islands have their individual KTEL services as well. A few in the Cyclades I am acquainted with are:
Paros: http://ktelparou.gr/en/
Naxos: http://www.naxos.gr/en/naxos/practic...on/bus-routes/
Santorini: https://ktel-santorini.gr/ktel/index.php/en/

The mainland KTEL services operate more or less the same timetables year-round, while island KTEL services vary according to season. In winter the island bus schedules serve locals, while in summer the schedule is expanded to accommodate tourists as well.

kja

You'll have to price things out, but in general, organized tours will NOT be less expensive that what you can do on your own, and anything you do on your own has the advantage that YOU decide what, when, for how long, etc. As a rule (and there are exceptions!), an organized tour is a good budget recommendation only if (a) public transportation won't work for your needs and (b) traveling with others is an even higher priority than saving money.

MoBro

Quick thoughts:

We were in Greece mid-September. It’s less crowded. Probably less expensive than high season.

The weather on Santorini does start changing then, to windy/raininess, but our weather was great for the most part. We were there 5 nights, and loved it. I would avoid going any later in the season than mid- to late-September, though.

For a budget traveler, I recommend moving around less, because transportation gets expensive.

Price out the different islands. Santorini is awesome, but expensive.

We were not wild about staying in the center of Athens. Just didn’t appeal to us. One night we stayed at a fabulous hotel, right in the ancient center. Then we returned on our way back to the States, and were one night at a waterside resort. Night and day difference between the two.

I would spend fewer nights in Athens, and more nights on the most cost-effective island you’re interested in.

Be sure to look at ferry schedules that time of year. There was actually a ferry strike for three days while we were there. We lucked out, because our hotel advised us it was going to happen. Local news will cover such things, so tune in while you’re there. We had to fly to Athens to catch our next day flight home, but lots of people were stuck on islands because of the strike. Big inconvenience.

kja

To each his/her own! I found myself hard pressed to see / do what I wanted in Athens with 5 nights there. I was very happy to leave Santorini after just 1 night, although if I had been there off-season, I might have enjoyed a 2nd night there.

michaelpianko

Thanks for the links to the bus schedules.

My last two trips were in July; I am guessing that I want to see Greece in October or late September-October because I think the temperature will be too hi in July.

I would prefer to mainly travel on my own, possibly with one or more walking tours that last a few hours to part of a day. I ma a hypochondriac; my great grand father with my same last name had a heart attack and died when he was 39; I usually prefer to buy my own food at fruit markets or grocery stores.

I have a small preference for public transportation and not renting a car; my choice might be based on the cost of renting a car versus not renting one (total cost - quoted cost + gas + tolls + parking + any other fees or insurance, and so on). I am not afraid to drive; I only drive under 6,200 miles a year while insurance companies think the average American drives 12,000 miles a year. I drive a dar with automatic transmission, like most Americans; I understand that you can request a car with automatic transmission in Europe, but most rental cars are manual transmission; I never learned to drive a manual transmission. I live in a city/suburb next to Detroit, the motor city, where almost nobody uses the meger bus system; I drive on Michigan freeways sometimes, not every day.

kja

If you can meet your needs using public transportation, it can be a great way to travel as you get to see local people in non-tourist-y settings.

michaelpianko

If you were traveling alone, with my same ~$3,000 budget, would you feel sillier riding the KTEL buses or renting a car?

Would you buy any tickets in advance online? Some round trip tickets can only be bought in person.

Does my budget feel or seem strangly low to you? I probably am not as rich as some of you; I realize there may be a taboo about not mentioning money or costs.

I am happpy that Heimdall found the links for the inter-city buses in Greece that I somehow had not seen before; I am more leaning toward taking the buses now.

My mother thinks I am nuts or worse for traveling alone but she is less bothered by the possibility of me traveling with a whole-trip group tour. I am a health nut or hypochondriac; I usually would prefer to buy my own food instead of eating restaurant tood; a whole-trip guided tour would cost about just under to over $5,000 in my estimation; I might feel out of place or silly if a tour was all older mrried couples; my standards in loging places are lower that average, and so on.

l may still want one or more walking tours in Athens or other locations.

kja

When public transportation suits my needs, that's what I prefer -- I like the chance to see the scenery without having to watch the road, enjoy watching how local people interact with one another, and prefer to travel in "greener" ways when possible. I don't feel "silly" when I ride a bus or when I rent a car.

I can't speak to your budget or whether / when / how to buy tickets. No "taboos" involved -- I simply have no relevant information to share.

I would note that the link I gave you above to rome2rio.com should take you to the relevant KTEL websites.

I'm firmly committed to solo independent travel, have never traveled with a tour group, and - after 19 successful international trips averaging over 3 weeks each -- have no intention of beginning to do so now. Fodor's has a whole forum devoted to solo travel; you (and your mother) might find some inspiration from a thread devoted to trip reports involving solo travel:
https://www.fodors.com/community/tra...collection.cfm

I don't see any obstacles to managing your diet as you choose if your travel independently. I would think you would face greater difficulties -- and possibly greater costs -- If you join a tour, but I could be mistaken in that. At the minimum, I would think you would need to have some very clear discussions with any potential tour guides / tour organizers, and I would think you might want to have written confirmation of any agreements you reach about your meals should you join a group tour.

Walking tours can be a great option. As already noted, I think you would do well to consult the Lonely Planet and/or Rough Guide.

Good luck!

kja

BTW, most people I encounter when traveling solo are busy with their own lives -- whether I'm alone or not holds no interest for them. The few who do comment are almost invariably pleased and proud that I would have traveled some distance on my own to see their country.

Heimdall

Hi Michael,

Glad I could help with the KTEL links, but that was just an example of the many different bus services around the country. In most cases you can just show up at the bus station and buy your tickets on the spot.

Frankly I don't know if US$3,000 is enough to cover air fare from Detroit and 15 nights in Greece. Lets assume you pay $1,000 for air fare, that leaves you $2,000 for 15 nights, or looking at another way, $125/day for 16 days. That's about 100 euros per day at the current tourist exchange rates.

To stretch your budget you should limit transportation costs by travelling by bus on the mainland and using conventional ferries whenever you can when going to the islands.

Late Sep-Oct is a good time for budget travellers, because hotels on the islands reduce their room rates in low season. Limit your time on expensive islands like Mykonos and Santorini. If you go to Santorini, stay on the beach side of the island rather than the caldera side, where rooms are cheaper. there are some backpacker hostels in Athens, but not many on the islands.

Travelling around by bus on the mainland will be cheaper than taking ferries to the islands, and you will see much more. Most important archaeological sites and museums are on the mainland anyway. Limit the number of islands you visit, because even conventional ferries are expensive. High speed ferries are twice the price as conventional.

It is possible to eat cheaply in Greece if you avoid the tourist traps. Always look at the prices on the menu before sitting down. Greek food may be different from what you are used to at home, but is delicious and usually made with fresh ingredients. A good way to save is to order one or two starters and skip the main course. One typical Greek salad starter (tomato, cucumber, onion, feta cheese, etc), for example, is enough to fill me up. Many restaurants have display cases where you can see the food before ordering.

Athens has a free walking tour, which I understand is very good. Many of the major historic sites are in a small area in the middle of the city, and it is easy to walk between them. For other sites, there is a good metro system in the city.

michaelpianko

Thanks for your replies.

I prefer to buy my food from grocery stores or fruit markets. Do they have stores that sell fruit? I am sure they do. Nobody eats every meal at a restaurant, except maybe some travelers expect to eat every meal at a restaurant while traveling.

~ $15 average grocery bill per day for food x 15 ~ $225
Even if I wanted to break my diet and eat a few portions of cooked food, I would still buy it from a deli counter at a store or some kind of low end restaurant; as a sisngle person even if I had an unlimited budget, I wouldn’t let myself sit at a fancy restaurant with table service. Maybe some solo travelers like the idea of getting table service in hi class restaurants.
~ $1,500 airplane tickets
~ $200 or less round trip airplane tickets to santorini
~ $35 or less per day on buses and subway trains ~ $455
~ $40 or less per night for spots in hostels or low end loging places ~ $600 or less
$2,880 so far.
$20 or less per day on museum and site admissions ~ $260 or less
$3,140 so far

I might be over-estimating on these costs. I should still have money for one or more guided tours. I doubt I can get airplane tickets to Athens for under $1,400 but maybe the prices will decrease before I buy my tickets.

A “free” tour is not free because you will feel like a freeloading douchbag if you don’t give the guide a €10 or €15 tip.

kja

Of course you can buy fresh fruit at groceries and markets.

If the guidebooks you are consulting don't cover that, please get yourself a better one. The cost of a guidebook will be minimal in comparison to the cost of your trip, and you will end up with a wealth of information at your fingertips -- including cost saving information.

Heimdall

<i>"A “free” tour is not free because you will feel like a freeloading douchbag if you don’t give the guide a €10 or €15 tip."</i>

Tipping isn't as big a thing in Greece as in the US. I think €10 or €15 euros for a volunteer guide on an Athens walking tour would be overly generous, but I would like to hear what other experienced travellers think. It would certainly be easy enough to guide yourself around Athens if you wish, though.

<i>"Even if I wanted to break my diet and eat a few portions of cooked food, I would still buy it from a deli counter at a store or some kind of low end restaurant; as a sisngle person even if I had an unlimited budget, I wouldn’t let myself sit at a fancy restaurant with table service."</i>

In my 20 or so trips to Greece (I've lost count) I don't recall ever eating at a "fancy restaurant". There are many family-run tavernas that offer wholesome food at very reasonable prices, and you can sit at the table as long as you like. My typical evening meal would cost around €12-15, and that includes a starter, main course, and small carafe of house wine. If I just ordered a large Greek salad and a small bottle of water it would cost around €5. The secret is to avoid tourist traps and look for places where locals are more likely to eat.

The nice thing about sitting down at a table in an inexpensive cafe or taverna, especially for solo travellers, is that you are around other people, have a chance to chat, and learn about the area you are in. You can buy fruit and other food in grocery stores or buns and sandwiches in bakeries, but it wouldn't be much fun if you always eat alone. Try to have a least one meal a day in a cafe or taverna.

If your budget is $3,000 and you spend half of that on air fare to Greece, then you don't have much left for discretionary spending. I would want to have something in reserve for unforeseen expenses, or at least a credit card you can use for emergencies. Before the trip, be sure to get yourself a good travel insurance policy that includes medical expenses and repatriation to the US.