Rex

Tthis could be a lively thread - - or it might be a yawn. You'll have to go erad the complete article - - if I try to cut and paste anything more than snippets, Fodors will delete my post, or the entire thread (they do at least warn that they don't allow copyrighted material quoted here).<BR><BR>I'll try to give you some of the flavor of the debate.<BR><BR>=================================== ======<BR><BR>Here's the URL:<BR><BR>http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/06/business/06TRAV.html<BR><BR>"Animosity Over Different Fares for Different Travelers"<BR><BR>By JOE SHARKEY<BR><BR><BR>Two weeks ago, Mr. Robert C. Julian fired off a letter to Delta Air Lines...<BR><BR>Basically, he contended, Delta and its competitors have devolved into impersonal commodity suppliers who employ "ticket price roulette" to try to fill planes...<BR><BR>Even more troublesome is the fact that your prices and rules seem to change by the hour, and that you promote highly variable prices through obscure distribution channels (Internet, discounters, consolidators), practices guaranteed to enrage your best customers....<BR><BR>The airlines' breathtakingly complicated yield-based pricing structures, in which most customers are unaware of how fares change literally by the hour until the plane door closes, "is antithetical to everything we do in a normal business environment"...<BR><BR>=========================== ============ <BR><BR>What do you think. I feel like I would come down more on the side of the airlines. Instant information has made the world - - and commerce - - a diffeent animal. And Mr. Julian is having trouble adapting to the change. The Internet is NOT an obscure distribution channel. It is the Main Street for selling many travel services. And it will continue to evolve.<BR><BR>An airplane seat is a very perishable "product" - - and as with fish, high fashion, or newspapers - - those with the pickiest demands for exactly such-and-such product, with exactly this-or-that level of service to go with it (no change penalties, upgradeability, etc) will always pay the highest price.<BR><BR>The opinions at odds, I guess is whether "full fare" represents a "gouging" price - - or simply, the full FAIR price.<BR><BR>I hope others will join in on this issue.<BR><BR>Best wishes,<BR><BR>Rex<BR>

my

Without knowing all the ins and outs of the debate, I'd say let the airlines price their tickets differently if they want to. If they can find people who will buy them at the higher end and the lower end, more power to them. It's not like it *doesn't* happen in other markets. Certainly buyers more in the know will get better prices than someone unfamiliar with a market. If they have seats that haven't been sold for an upcoming flight, why shouldn't an airline try to arrange, however they can, to fill the seats they have and make some money.

Philip

Airline travel has become more like a utility rather than a convenience. We saw that in the U.S. when the airline industry was begging Congress to bail them out. (Is Congress bailing out K-Mart?) So if we treat it as a utility then the price should have some stability for every person, much like your electric bill.<BR><BR>Unfortunately the airline industry knows that it has the best of both worlds. It can make huge profits yet go running for bailouts when it isn't doing so well.

Rex

Hmmm... this isn't likely to generate much lively debate here. Too few people concerned about the spectrum of prices offered by the airlines.<BR><BR>It might be argued that the low-price travelers actually subsidize the high-price "business" (inflexible) travelers. Let's say it costs $20,000 to fly a plane fom point A to point B at a certain precise time. 10 people really need/want that route, at that time, on that date. Another 100 people could take it or leave it - - flying at a different time, on a different time, to or from a different city.<BR><BR>The 10 people could pay $2000 each.<BR><BR>Or they could be grateful that 100 people - - who don't really need/want that particular flight - - are willing to join them, and fly for $100 each, thus driving their cost down to only $1000.<BR><BR>Inflexible travelers have two choices: private aircraft, or become a little more flexible and find ways to avoid paying the &lt;&lt;full ("FAIR") fare&gt;&gt;.<BR><BR>I've been on both sides of this issue - - traveling a lot for business and not.<BR>

xxxx

Rex, <BR>Haven't taken the time to read the article, just your excerpt. I agree with the airlines. ON a recent trip I had a business man sitting next to me. Somehow the discussion lead to the price we paid for our tickets. When I told him I paid $200 RT to fly from TPA to PDX he was shocked and irritated b/c he paid more than twice that to fly from PDX to IAH.<BR>I planned well in advance, and made the arrangements to conform to the rules for the lowest possible ticket. I did not have the luxury of changing dates, times, etc. You pay for that luxury. <BR>I travel for leisure all the time, and I let the prices dictate where I go. For instance, if I notice incredible deals to a certain city then I will choose for my next visit. <BR>It is the same in ALL aspects of life!<BR>If you want to stay at a hotel on Santorini in late June you will pay more than staying in March. You may go to a store and see a great sweater for $60, come back as spring rolls around and now you pay $35.

Sue

Phillip, I hear what you're saying about treating the airlines as utilities, but even utilities are starting to charge variable rates. For example, electricity consumed at times of peak demand costs more per KWHr, in many instances, than if it is used off-peak. So, when airline seats are purchased at times of least demand - well in advance of departure - the same principle applies.<BR><BR>Airlines can make big profits - or they can get squeezed when cash flow drops below sustainable levels in a market crunch and go belly up (think Swissair, Sabena, etc.) I think customers who contribute the most to an airline's cash flow - leisure customers who pay nonrefundable fares weeks in advance - are the 'best' customers of an airline. They (we) have every right to expect to pay lower fares than a customer who wants a seat "On demand" at virtually the last minute, which is the case of most business travellers. Frequent flyers they might be (and they get the points in compensation) but cash flow contributors, they ain't.<BR><BR>

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KenCT

I can see why some business travelers get annoyed when they pay considerably more than leisure travelers, but the bottom line hee is supply and demand. Get over it. Leisure fares are in the same category as happy hour drinks, early bird specials, and post-season clothing sales.

Sue

xxxx, thanks for the sweater analogy. I get hot when I book months in advance and then a month before departure, the price drops significantly. But I am paying for the security of knowing I can leave when I want to leave, just as you pay more for the sweater in season (or when you find it) rather than wait for sale time and hope it will be there.

Rex

Well, as was clear yesterday, this is not a barnburner topic - - too many people on this forum in favor of leaving the bewildering spectrum of fares unfettered.<BR><BR>When I did do more business travel, I did ownder what benefits the airlines - - and frequent travelers alike - - might get out of selling a "pass". $1000 a year (for example) - - and it entitles one traveler to get the lowest available fare - - coming and going, without those crazy Saturday night stayovers etc.<BR><BR>An effort to eliminate the game of nested flights, unused round trip (return) tickets, etc. I suppose that only small business, self-employed etc (somwehere between leisure travelers and "corporate" travelers in psychology) would be interested in this. But don't many of us fall in the category of only "semi-flexible" often times?<BR>

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