Global Travel Warning...
Jan 12th, 2015, 10:01 PM
#41
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This is really an interesting article about why Al Qaeda has a new relevance for terror threats against the West
http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog...da/?insrc=wbll
In response to IMDonehere's post, I think it is quite silly to decide 30 years in advance or 3 years in advance when and where you are going to travel. Things change all the time.
This "I have a frozen world view" is no way to live. This accusation that people who read the news and act accordingly are some how acting out of fear is nonsense. What on earth is wrong with paying attention to the news and learning?
The "struggle for religious and political power" is not just "within the Muslim world." If it was, nobody here would be discussing it. There is a struggle for power directed at citizens of Europe and the US because they have involved themselves in lives of the people of the Middle East for a century in violent ways that abuse human rights and use these people as pawns within their own ideological and greed-driven power plays. "Shock and awe" was done to show how cruel, powerful, and clever the US could be. The same can be said of several "mowing the grass" wars against Palestinians conducted by Israel.
There is no truth to painting Muslims as uniquely violent, terror-prone or cruel.
Go where you want to go for your fun, but if you want to understand the world, try reading a few history books as well.
http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog...da/?insrc=wbll
In response to IMDonehere's post, I think it is quite silly to decide 30 years in advance or 3 years in advance when and where you are going to travel. Things change all the time.
This "I have a frozen world view" is no way to live. This accusation that people who read the news and act accordingly are some how acting out of fear is nonsense. What on earth is wrong with paying attention to the news and learning?
The "struggle for religious and political power" is not just "within the Muslim world." If it was, nobody here would be discussing it. There is a struggle for power directed at citizens of Europe and the US because they have involved themselves in lives of the people of the Middle East for a century in violent ways that abuse human rights and use these people as pawns within their own ideological and greed-driven power plays. "Shock and awe" was done to show how cruel, powerful, and clever the US could be. The same can be said of several "mowing the grass" wars against Palestinians conducted by Israel.
There is no truth to painting Muslims as uniquely violent, terror-prone or cruel.
Go where you want to go for your fun, but if you want to understand the world, try reading a few history books as well.
Jan 13th, 2015, 02:45 AM
#42
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Compared to kids raised in a ghetto, or kids raised in the hamlets of Mississipi, Barack Obama had the life of a prince. He had a single mother, and his family wasn't wealthy, but his mother was an anthropologist, and his grandparents were middle class and very suppportive of him. He graduated from an elite private high school in Hawaii. Maybe to those of you from rarified social circles, that's deprivation.
Even compared to my working class immigrant family he had a privileged youth. My parents' highest aspirations for us was that we might work as bank tellers or something else that didn't leave dirt under our fingernails.
Even compared to my working class immigrant family he had a privileged youth. My parents' highest aspirations for us was that we might work as bank tellers or something else that didn't leave dirt under our fingernails.
Jan 13th, 2015, 05:38 AM
#43
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In response to IMDonehere's post, I think it is quite silly to decide 30 years in advance or 3 years in advance when and where you are going to travel. Things change all the time.
______________________
Of course you would, but you look for the faults rather actually reading what is read.
This situation is going to last a long time and if you want to travel, you should be of the mind, that you will have to endure this because there will horrible, senseless murders for the next 30 years. I did not say when where or when, because that is the nature of terrorism.
______________________
Of course you would, but you look for the faults rather actually reading what is read.
This situation is going to last a long time and if you want to travel, you should be of the mind, that you will have to endure this because there will horrible, senseless murders for the next 30 years. I did not say when where or when, because that is the nature of terrorism.
Jan 13th, 2015, 09:26 AM
#45
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What "situation" is going "last a long time"? There are features of the "situation" in Paris that are quite different from the "situation" of terror threats elsewhere, and no one really knows what will happen in the next few weeks in Paris.
I realize that many people will want to have an all-purpose thing they can tell themselves to tamp down their own anxieties, and they will want to pretend that all terrorist activity is the same, so therefore there is no need to think about it. Just call it senseless and keep booking one's travel tickets. But of course that is not true -- and some people actually don't need those psychological security blankets.
I am reminded of stories I read about the years of the late 1920s and early 1930s when there was a huge amount of evidence in plain sight that Europe was headed to war, and that some populations would be at tremendous risk. And many people did nothing to protect themselves.
I am not suggesting that Europe is headed to war, or even anything close. I am just asking people to question the mindset that says "I can't live with situations in flux, where details make a difference."
Speaking of details, I was struck by this statement I read which was spoken at the funeral of the four men killed in the Kosher supermarket. They were buried in Jerusalem, and the president of Israel, Reuven Rivlin said in his eulogy:
"“We cannot allow it to be the case, that in the year 2015, 70 years since the end of the second world war, Jews are afraid to walk in the streets of Europe with skullcaps and tzitzit.”
I think that is true but it is also true that in 2015, Muslim women are not only afraid to walk the streets of Paris wearing their religious garb, they can even be arrested for it.
It doesn't take 30 years to see that is wrong and end the bigotry and offense.
I realize that many people will want to have an all-purpose thing they can tell themselves to tamp down their own anxieties, and they will want to pretend that all terrorist activity is the same, so therefore there is no need to think about it. Just call it senseless and keep booking one's travel tickets. But of course that is not true -- and some people actually don't need those psychological security blankets.
I am reminded of stories I read about the years of the late 1920s and early 1930s when there was a huge amount of evidence in plain sight that Europe was headed to war, and that some populations would be at tremendous risk. And many people did nothing to protect themselves.
I am not suggesting that Europe is headed to war, or even anything close. I am just asking people to question the mindset that says "I can't live with situations in flux, where details make a difference."
Speaking of details, I was struck by this statement I read which was spoken at the funeral of the four men killed in the Kosher supermarket. They were buried in Jerusalem, and the president of Israel, Reuven Rivlin said in his eulogy:
"“We cannot allow it to be the case, that in the year 2015, 70 years since the end of the second world war, Jews are afraid to walk in the streets of Europe with skullcaps and tzitzit.”
I think that is true but it is also true that in 2015, Muslim women are not only afraid to walk the streets of Paris wearing their religious garb, they can even be arrested for it.
It doesn't take 30 years to see that is wrong and end the bigotry and offense.
Jan 13th, 2015, 05:06 PM
#46
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There was a heartening show of multicultural acceptance in Berlin today, where German leaders of all backgrounds and beliefs and non-beliefs linked arms at the Brandenburg Gate (which was lit in the blue, white and red of the French flag) to reaffirm that all have a place in free Germany. Angela Merkel was front and center, saying all the right things, including that Islam is welcome in Germany
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...erance-attacks
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...erance-attacks
Jan 17th, 2015, 05:27 AM
#48
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It's ridiculous to think that these murders in France and other places are due to people being poor. What a croc! Can they possibly be leading miserable lives? Yes. Is that an excuse for murdering innocent people? No. Stop giving them excuses. My parents were very poor, first generation Americans. I can't remember the last time they held hostages and became terrorists.
Jan 21st, 2015, 06:11 AM
#49
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"http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/alertswarnings.html
Interestingly it does not specifically mention France, Germany, Italy or Greece. Since it is about World Wide travel I assume it includes the USA."
Agree with bilboburgler on the alerts above, nothing to stop me from heading to Europe.
AND as NYT says "I'm not heading into a war zone - but terrorists can strike anywhere. We know, NYC is a favorite target - and I refuse to be intimidated."
Interestingly it does not specifically mention France, Germany, Italy or Greece. Since it is about World Wide travel I assume it includes the USA."
Agree with bilboburgler on the alerts above, nothing to stop me from heading to Europe.
AND as NYT says "I'm not heading into a war zone - but terrorists can strike anywhere. We know, NYC is a favorite target - and I refuse to be intimidated."
Nov 24th, 2015, 01:29 PM
#50
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My mom has a trip booked with Grand Circle Travel. They are a bunch of jerks and smirked at me when I asked if she could postpone her trip. I didn't ask for a refund. I asked for a CREDIT. They had absolutely no sympathy and told me it was her fault because she didn't take insurance out. I'm sorry I know this is hurting their business but the news specifically said that they are hunting Americans and to stay away from public places markets etc. She is going on a Christmas RiverBoat cruise and they admitted to me when I told them there is no security screening on the boats and it is very easy for anyone to jump aboard. She said. I know. I also asked about screening food carts, luggage etc and she quickly changed the subject. Do not travel with Grand Circle Travel. You would think being based out of Boston who has experienced a bombing would especially be more sympathetic. I think they are opening themselves up for several lawsuits. I did call Gate 1 Travel and they are helping their passengers out whom are fearful. The lady was rude and had no empathy towards my situation.
Nov 24th, 2015, 03:16 PM
#52
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Cbgetaway2015-
This thread has gone a bit off topic. Getting back to your original post...
I've had the same concerns as you lately. My trip to Europe isn't until July, so I have some time to wait and see how things pan out. For now, I have no plans to cancel. But I might make some changes to my itinerary depending on how the world looks in July.
For instance, I probably will be avoiding the Metro in Paris. We will take cabs or walk. I'm hoping things in Paris have stabilized, but if not, I might choose to rent a car and drive to Switzerland, rather than take trains.
I don't have many concerns about Wengen, Switzerland.
I think major cities and tourist attractions are more of a concern.
We are flying from DC to Paris and we had planned a tour of the White House before we fly out. If there is still a heightened security warning, I might rethink my tour.
It's very easy for many Fodorites to say "don't let fear stop you from traveling", but I think it's an individual decision.
I myself am a mother of 2 young kids, and I think when you are responsible for the safety of your kids and not just yourself, it changes your thinking process about the whole situation. Even if I were traveling alone, I would have more concerns because if something happened to me, my kids would not have their mother. So I don't think those posters who are retired with grown children or no children can relate.
With that being said, I realize the U.S. has more gun violence than Europe in general. However, as Sandralist said, you're more likely to be hit by lightning if you're walking through the desert in a thunderstorm.
This thread has gone a bit off topic. Getting back to your original post...
I've had the same concerns as you lately. My trip to Europe isn't until July, so I have some time to wait and see how things pan out. For now, I have no plans to cancel. But I might make some changes to my itinerary depending on how the world looks in July.
For instance, I probably will be avoiding the Metro in Paris. We will take cabs or walk. I'm hoping things in Paris have stabilized, but if not, I might choose to rent a car and drive to Switzerland, rather than take trains.
I don't have many concerns about Wengen, Switzerland.
I think major cities and tourist attractions are more of a concern.
We are flying from DC to Paris and we had planned a tour of the White House before we fly out. If there is still a heightened security warning, I might rethink my tour.
It's very easy for many Fodorites to say "don't let fear stop you from traveling", but I think it's an individual decision.
I myself am a mother of 2 young kids, and I think when you are responsible for the safety of your kids and not just yourself, it changes your thinking process about the whole situation. Even if I were traveling alone, I would have more concerns because if something happened to me, my kids would not have their mother. So I don't think those posters who are retired with grown children or no children can relate.
With that being said, I realize the U.S. has more gun violence than Europe in general. However, as Sandralist said, you're more likely to be hit by lightning if you're walking through the desert in a thunderstorm.
Nov 24th, 2015, 06:23 PM
#53
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"Even if I were traveling alone, I would have more concerns because if something happened to me, my kids would not have their mother. So I don't think those posters who are retired with grown children or no children can relate."
Think again.
--Annie
Think again.
--Annie
Nov 25th, 2015, 12:05 AM
#54
Absolutely, everyone should make their own decisions about their own safety, which I what I told Mrs B after I stopped hang gliding just before she smashed both her arms on the thing.
On the good side, she learnt to tat while in hospital
On the good side, she learnt to tat while in hospital
Nov 25th, 2015, 01:21 AM
#55
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Is the OP still out there?
I read the entire updated Global Warning. The new warning has changed the names of the groups of people whom the government believes are planning to cause mayhem. Other than that, there is nothing new since the attacks on the World Trade Center - same precautions, same advice to pay attention to what goes on around you.
But the government wants to make certain that citizens don't forget that there is evil amongst us - now you just have a better idea of who might be held responsible the next time something happens.
For all of you people who do not live in Paris, it's easy to just toss off cavalier remarks about what you would do if you were here, how you refuse to be intimidated, etc. Blow smoke all you want to, but your remarks are not based in reality because you are not in Paris at this moment.
I'm a fairly calm individual, but at the moment, most of the people I know in Paris feel intimidated, nervous and even slightly hysterical. Things are not normal. Non-stop police sirens have not yet faded into the background noise level. There are too many armed soldiers everywhere, too many security guards checking - or worse, not checking thoroughly. Pharmacists are running out of anxiety and sleep medications. I had to mail a simple package at the Poste Office yesterday, and was treated like the UniBomber - nobody took their eyes off me until I was safely outside on the sidewalk.
In the trendy neighborhoods, where Anglophone expats congregate, life goes on as usual. But that's because these people - like some of the rest of you - live life inside a bubble.
I read the entire updated Global Warning. The new warning has changed the names of the groups of people whom the government believes are planning to cause mayhem. Other than that, there is nothing new since the attacks on the World Trade Center - same precautions, same advice to pay attention to what goes on around you.
But the government wants to make certain that citizens don't forget that there is evil amongst us - now you just have a better idea of who might be held responsible the next time something happens.
For all of you people who do not live in Paris, it's easy to just toss off cavalier remarks about what you would do if you were here, how you refuse to be intimidated, etc. Blow smoke all you want to, but your remarks are not based in reality because you are not in Paris at this moment.
I'm a fairly calm individual, but at the moment, most of the people I know in Paris feel intimidated, nervous and even slightly hysterical. Things are not normal. Non-stop police sirens have not yet faded into the background noise level. There are too many armed soldiers everywhere, too many security guards checking - or worse, not checking thoroughly. Pharmacists are running out of anxiety and sleep medications. I had to mail a simple package at the Poste Office yesterday, and was treated like the UniBomber - nobody took their eyes off me until I was safely outside on the sidewalk.
In the trendy neighborhoods, where Anglophone expats congregate, life goes on as usual. But that's because these people - like some of the rest of you - live life inside a bubble.
Nov 25th, 2015, 02:15 AM
#57
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As I read it, the latest warning is fairly common-sense stuff about being vigilant, making sure you're aware of local warnings and instructions as situations develop, and that your nearest and dearest have ways to get in touch with you if need be. Which is pretty well what you'd do anyway, isn't it?
It does say, somewhat unrealistically, to avoid crowded places, but I would read that more as "Make sure you know how to get away quickly", rather than "Freak out if anyone stands within ten yards of you".
But maybe I'm an incurable optimist.
It does say, somewhat unrealistically, to avoid crowded places, but I would read that more as "Make sure you know how to get away quickly", rather than "Freak out if anyone stands within ten yards of you".
But maybe I'm an incurable optimist.
Nov 25th, 2015, 06:58 AM
#58
I live in DC and have family and friends in NYC. Different types of attacks, but terrorist attacks nonetheless. Some reacted as fuzzbucket describes. I remember the articles about people seeking medical help and anti anxiety. People had trouble sleeping etc. Others did not. I am in Paris and while I'm sure her descriptions are accurate, this is not my experience. We have Parisian friends here and have been out with groups of locals. We have discussed with them and strangers that we meet the attacks, I would not describe any of them as living in a bubble. Of course, it's scary, and one modifies one life as they see fit, We all react differently to life events. right now the world is a pretty dangerous and scary one which is very sad.
