Getting Euros in US
Apr 11th, 2004, 06:57 PM
#41
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Actually Budman, I'm afraid your terminology is incorrect.
Technically, a credit card is a device used to obtain credit from somebody or something. When you obtain credit, you promise to pay it back usually with a stated amount or rate of interest.
Strictly speaking, MC and Visa credit cards can be used to obtain credit and are issued on the assumption people will not pay their bills back immediately and incur finance charges.
However, many people use their MC and Visa cards as charge cards. That is they pay back their bills in full upon receipt and the only credit incurred if you will is the float between the time of the purchase and the receipt of the bill. American Express originally was not a credit card but a charge card although they have penetrated the area of credit with their Optima cards.
The check cards with visa and mc logos are not credit cards; no credit is extended. As soon as the transaction clears through the bank card system, the account tied in with the card, usually a chequing account but it can be a savings account, is debited for the purchase. Hence this feature of the card make it a debit card, your account is debited no credit is extended. The transaction goes through the system and the money disappears from the account the card is tied into with. Although you and the merchant may think you are using a credit card, you are most certainly not.
When you use such a card to access cash in an ATM then it is also an ATM card. Some people prefer vanilla ATM cards so to speak without the visa or mc logo because these cards can ony be used with a PIN number either in an ATM or sometimes at a POS (Point of sale) terminal for purchases if a merchant accepts cards on that system Some of the debit cards referred to above i.e. those with mc or visa logos also contain the logo of a POS network such as maestro. To make a long story short, that is what a whole law suit was about between Wal Mart and Visa. Visa was pushing people to use their debit cards with mc/visa logos as if it was a credit card that is with a signature and Wal Mart wanted, since the fees were lower, to insist that such transactions clear through their POS terminals with a PIN number which costs them far less in processing costs. Wal Mart won the suit and if you use wal mart you may be aware that you may no longer use a debit card (a MC or Visa cheque card so to speak) with a signature nut rather must use it with a PIN number.
So there are charge cards (Amex and people who don't roll over purchases on MC/Visa), there are credit cards (Optima and what MC/Visa were originally intended to be), there are debit cards (MC/Visa check cards, Maestro and NYCE) which can be used as if they are credit cards if the merchants allow it but in many cases can only be used with a PIN number and finally there are vanilla ATM cards.
Most all of the credit cards can be used to access cash in ATM's throughout the world but there are sometimes obscenely high fees to be paid for this, interest begins to accumulate the instant you remove the bank notes from the ATM but that doesn't make them ATM cards. Just like just because you can use a debit card with a MC or Visa logo at a merchant with a signature does not make them credit cards.
I hope this unclutters peoples' minds who just can't seem to fathom the differences.
Technically, a credit card is a device used to obtain credit from somebody or something. When you obtain credit, you promise to pay it back usually with a stated amount or rate of interest.
Strictly speaking, MC and Visa credit cards can be used to obtain credit and are issued on the assumption people will not pay their bills back immediately and incur finance charges.
However, many people use their MC and Visa cards as charge cards. That is they pay back their bills in full upon receipt and the only credit incurred if you will is the float between the time of the purchase and the receipt of the bill. American Express originally was not a credit card but a charge card although they have penetrated the area of credit with their Optima cards.
The check cards with visa and mc logos are not credit cards; no credit is extended. As soon as the transaction clears through the bank card system, the account tied in with the card, usually a chequing account but it can be a savings account, is debited for the purchase. Hence this feature of the card make it a debit card, your account is debited no credit is extended. The transaction goes through the system and the money disappears from the account the card is tied into with. Although you and the merchant may think you are using a credit card, you are most certainly not.
When you use such a card to access cash in an ATM then it is also an ATM card. Some people prefer vanilla ATM cards so to speak without the visa or mc logo because these cards can ony be used with a PIN number either in an ATM or sometimes at a POS (Point of sale) terminal for purchases if a merchant accepts cards on that system Some of the debit cards referred to above i.e. those with mc or visa logos also contain the logo of a POS network such as maestro. To make a long story short, that is what a whole law suit was about between Wal Mart and Visa. Visa was pushing people to use their debit cards with mc/visa logos as if it was a credit card that is with a signature and Wal Mart wanted, since the fees were lower, to insist that such transactions clear through their POS terminals with a PIN number which costs them far less in processing costs. Wal Mart won the suit and if you use wal mart you may be aware that you may no longer use a debit card (a MC or Visa cheque card so to speak) with a signature nut rather must use it with a PIN number.
So there are charge cards (Amex and people who don't roll over purchases on MC/Visa), there are credit cards (Optima and what MC/Visa were originally intended to be), there are debit cards (MC/Visa check cards, Maestro and NYCE) which can be used as if they are credit cards if the merchants allow it but in many cases can only be used with a PIN number and finally there are vanilla ATM cards.
Most all of the credit cards can be used to access cash in ATM's throughout the world but there are sometimes obscenely high fees to be paid for this, interest begins to accumulate the instant you remove the bank notes from the ATM but that doesn't make them ATM cards. Just like just because you can use a debit card with a MC or Visa logo at a merchant with a signature does not make them credit cards.
I hope this unclutters peoples' minds who just can't seem to fathom the differences.
Apr 12th, 2004, 06:37 AM
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<xyz123 is right-on (I work for a bank ).>
Well, do you think that a thief is going to give a rat's arse whether the funds come out of your checking account or from a credit card company???
The bottom line and point that I'm attempting to make is that if you lose your VISA/ATM check card, a thief can use it at any merchant that accepts VISA, who could care less whether or not it is a VISA or a check card/debit card, and could wipe out your checking account. While down the line you could probably get the funds restored to your checking account after the fraud was reported, but it would be one hell of an inconvenience, don't you think?
If you lose your ATM card, it is virtually worthless without the Pin.
Since you work for a bank, is this correct, Travelnut?
Well, do you think that a thief is going to give a rat's arse whether the funds come out of your checking account or from a credit card company???
The bottom line and point that I'm attempting to make is that if you lose your VISA/ATM check card, a thief can use it at any merchant that accepts VISA, who could care less whether or not it is a VISA or a check card/debit card, and could wipe out your checking account. While down the line you could probably get the funds restored to your checking account after the fraud was reported, but it would be one hell of an inconvenience, don't you think?
If you lose your ATM card, it is virtually worthless without the Pin.
Since you work for a bank, is this correct, Travelnut?
Apr 12th, 2004, 06:48 AM
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Certainly there is a lot of loose usage of terms with respect to this matter. The banks don't help, either. When I activated my debit card with my local bank, their instructions were that I was to select the "credit" option when I used the card. I don't understand that, but it works.
Apr 12th, 2004, 07:35 AM
#46
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Very basically, you are liable for a stated maximum loss depending on when you report the lost/stolen card or card number. Sometimes even that liability is waived. It is usually $50 for a credit card, and can vary among institutions and depend on the elapsed time for a debit/ATM card.
I definitely agree that money taken out of your checking account will take more effort /red-tape to get replaced by the bank than having unauthorized charges removed from your credit card account.
If you want to use a debit/ATM card for cash advances (no cash adv fee like w/credit cards), then only leave the minimal amount you might want to spend in the account; or even better, have a special account just for this purpose so your own bank account will not be disrupted. Or, just go for the protection of the credit card and suck up the transaction fees (which might be minimized by withdrawing fewer-but-larger amounts). It all amounts to whatever you feel best doing, right, Budman?
ClevelandBrown, on the POS box you select 'credit' simply so the transaction will not require the PIN. The difference is that the 'credit' transaction is more expensive for the merchant, while historically the PIN transaction has been cheaper to process and free for the consumer. Some banks may start (or have already started) charging the consumer a fee for PIN transactions, so consumers will prefer the credit option while the merchant may push for the PIN option.
Anyway, there are many choices and combinations for how to access funds for travel, and to each his own method!
I definitely agree that money taken out of your checking account will take more effort /red-tape to get replaced by the bank than having unauthorized charges removed from your credit card account.
If you want to use a debit/ATM card for cash advances (no cash adv fee like w/credit cards), then only leave the minimal amount you might want to spend in the account; or even better, have a special account just for this purpose so your own bank account will not be disrupted. Or, just go for the protection of the credit card and suck up the transaction fees (which might be minimized by withdrawing fewer-but-larger amounts). It all amounts to whatever you feel best doing, right, Budman?
ClevelandBrown, on the POS box you select 'credit' simply so the transaction will not require the PIN. The difference is that the 'credit' transaction is more expensive for the merchant, while historically the PIN transaction has been cheaper to process and free for the consumer. Some banks may start (or have already started) charging the consumer a fee for PIN transactions, so consumers will prefer the credit option while the merchant may push for the PIN option.
Anyway, there are many choices and combinations for how to access funds for travel, and to each his own method!
Apr 12th, 2004, 08:05 AM
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Travelnut - I agree with what you said. But I think the merchant actually pays higher fees for debit card than credit card in most occassions. That's part of the basis of Wal-Mart's suit against VISA/Mastercard. VISA/MC wants all merchants to take both debit and credit cards with their logos, but Wal-Mart wants to take only credit cards and not debit cards because of the higher fees charged by VISA/MC for debit card transactions.
At least that's the way I understand it.
At least that's the way I understand it.
Apr 12th, 2004, 09:03 AM
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<It all amounts to whatever you feel best doing, right, Budman?>
Yupper!!!
The main reason I have posted on this link is to help educate some travelers, as this forum has helped to educate me.
I'm going to Ireland next month, and my main source of cash will be my ATM card, drawing against my checking account, because most of the B&B's that I am staying at prefer cash (Euros) and for other misc entrance fees and expenses that I cannot use my regular credit card for.
Since my current ATM Card can also be used as a VISA, I would have hated to lose it and have someone wipe out my checking account along with the cash reserve. For this reason, I am going to cancel the VISA portion before I depart on my trip and only have it as an ATM card. If it is lost/stolen, my account can't be accessed without the Pin.
I don't pay any fees for the use of any of my credit/debit cards. I closed those fee accounts for that very reason. When I get my statements and if in fact a 1% transaction fee is wrapped into the exchange rate, it is not visible to me as it appears that I have gotten very close to the current market rate.
Yupper!!!
The main reason I have posted on this link is to help educate some travelers, as this forum has helped to educate me.
I'm going to Ireland next month, and my main source of cash will be my ATM card, drawing against my checking account, because most of the B&B's that I am staying at prefer cash (Euros) and for other misc entrance fees and expenses that I cannot use my regular credit card for.
Since my current ATM Card can also be used as a VISA, I would have hated to lose it and have someone wipe out my checking account along with the cash reserve. For this reason, I am going to cancel the VISA portion before I depart on my trip and only have it as an ATM card. If it is lost/stolen, my account can't be accessed without the Pin.
I don't pay any fees for the use of any of my credit/debit cards. I closed those fee accounts for that very reason. When I get my statements and if in fact a 1% transaction fee is wrapped into the exchange rate, it is not visible to me as it appears that I have gotten very close to the current market rate.
Apr 12th, 2004, 10:42 AM
#49
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Back to the original question which was how to get Euros, not "Shout I get euros" - If you belong to triple AAA they will sell you Euros without a fee.
I have an apt in Italy and they want the cash up front and I don't want to go around to different ATMS so I plan to travel with a wad of Euros in my neck pouch...
Joelle
I have an apt in Italy and they want the cash up front and I don't want to go around to different ATMS so I plan to travel with a wad of Euros in my neck pouch...
Joelle
Apr 12th, 2004, 10:53 AM
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Not to jump all over the previous poster, if you have to, you have to for things like apartments which don't take cc's and want cash but do understand when a company such as AAA says there is no fee, the fee is hidden of course in the exchange rate.
As of Friday, the Euro was trading at €1=$1.208 US. As cc's and ATM's mark up with a 1% surcharge on everything, the best you would do would be €1=$1.22. With some bank cards charging extra fees, it could go as high as €1=$1.243 or thereabouts. AAA might (you can call them) charge you in the vicinity of $1.32 which is where the fee is.
But aqgain if you have to, you have to.
As of Friday, the Euro was trading at €1=$1.208 US. As cc's and ATM's mark up with a 1% surcharge on everything, the best you would do would be €1=$1.22. With some bank cards charging extra fees, it could go as high as €1=$1.243 or thereabouts. AAA might (you can call them) charge you in the vicinity of $1.32 which is where the fee is.
But aqgain if you have to, you have to.
Apr 12th, 2004, 10:59 AM
#51
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Actually, the original question was more than that and did have a question about "the best/cheapest solution" in reference to euros in US/ATMs/credit cards.
Any bank will probably charge you some fee to get you a check made in euro, if they will. I have gotten some at a currency exchange service, Travelex. They charge a lot, also, but if you have to for some large payment, you have to (mine was school tuition and room/board so the fixed fee wasn't so bad in comparison).
Their are various places online to get currency (Chase is one, I think) and you can find them with a few words in a Google search. The answer to the original question was that getting euros in Europe is going to be cheaper than getting them in the US, regardless of method.
I belong to AAA and they do charge a fee for foreign currency, it's in the rate they quote. They don't do anything for free. I know because I'm a AAA member and have compared their conversion rates to the bank rate.
Any bank will probably charge you some fee to get you a check made in euro, if they will. I have gotten some at a currency exchange service, Travelex. They charge a lot, also, but if you have to for some large payment, you have to (mine was school tuition and room/board so the fixed fee wasn't so bad in comparison).
Their are various places online to get currency (Chase is one, I think) and you can find them with a few words in a Google search. The answer to the original question was that getting euros in Europe is going to be cheaper than getting them in the US, regardless of method.
I belong to AAA and they do charge a fee for foreign currency, it's in the rate they quote. They don't do anything for free. I know because I'm a AAA member and have compared their conversion rates to the bank rate.
Apr 12th, 2004, 06:57 PM
#52
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On the debit vs. credit option on your ATM card...
The merchant pays a fee for accepting either a credit card or a debit card. If they accept a debit card, they will pay less for a PIN-based debit than a signature-based debit (otherwise known as "the credit option). From a customer point, there is no charge for using a debit card, whether it is signature based or PIN based. The difference is usually in the liability you have. You are usually responsible for all charges done with a PIN, but your liability is limited to a max of $50 if it is signature based. The concept is that you had to give someone your PIN (or were incredibly careless), so you are responsible. Many banks waive the liability for credit-based to zero, and a good bank will give you immediate provisional credit if you report a stolen/lost card.
The Walmart suit was about the different fees for PIN or signature based, and now they can refuse signature-based debit transactions (so they only take PIN based, which has lower fees).
Did that muddy the waters any?
Anne
The merchant pays a fee for accepting either a credit card or a debit card. If they accept a debit card, they will pay less for a PIN-based debit than a signature-based debit (otherwise known as "the credit option). From a customer point, there is no charge for using a debit card, whether it is signature based or PIN based. The difference is usually in the liability you have. You are usually responsible for all charges done with a PIN, but your liability is limited to a max of $50 if it is signature based. The concept is that you had to give someone your PIN (or were incredibly careless), so you are responsible. Many banks waive the liability for credit-based to zero, and a good bank will give you immediate provisional credit if you report a stolen/lost card.
The Walmart suit was about the different fees for PIN or signature based, and now they can refuse signature-based debit transactions (so they only take PIN based, which has lower fees).
Did that muddy the waters any?
Anne
Apr 12th, 2004, 07:06 PM
#53
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okay, somebody "splain" this to me in REALLY simple, math challenged way...
When I go to an online currency converter, as of tonight, 1 euro = 1.20 (US)
Now I'm assuming you aren't going to get that pure rate, anywhere, even from an atm. So the cheapest I figure I can get it now in the US is 1.30. (that's AAA, but I didn't see anything better from a bank or online exchange)
So can someone tell me about what kind of a rate you can get from an ATM? I need about 1100 Euro for my apt in Rome and I'm really more nervous about trying to collect that much from ATMs than just carrying it close to my heart but if someone can convince me in REAL simple terms that I will save A LOT of money (like more than $100?) I might be pursuaded...
When I go to an online currency converter, as of tonight, 1 euro = 1.20 (US)
Now I'm assuming you aren't going to get that pure rate, anywhere, even from an atm. So the cheapest I figure I can get it now in the US is 1.30. (that's AAA, but I didn't see anything better from a bank or online exchange)
So can someone tell me about what kind of a rate you can get from an ATM? I need about 1100 Euro for my apt in Rome and I'm really more nervous about trying to collect that much from ATMs than just carrying it close to my heart but if someone can convince me in REAL simple terms that I will save A LOT of money (like more than $100?) I might be pursuaded...
Apr 12th, 2004, 07:18 PM
#54
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Joelleinitaly - xyz123 has answered your question in an above post. Most ATM cards (but not all) charge a 1% fee, so the rate you'll get is about 1.212, if the official rate is 1.200.
1,100 euros at 1.212 is US$1333.2. If you get a rate of 1.300, then 1,100 euro will cost you $1430. So, you lose about US$97.
1,100 euros at 1.212 is US$1333.2. If you get a rate of 1.300, then 1,100 euro will cost you $1430. So, you lose about US$97.
Apr 12th, 2004, 07:26 PM
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Okay. Thank you for your patience. When I took math I always had to have the teacher "splain" it to me more than once. It just sounds hard to get a straight answer from the bank if the fee really is only 1%. I live in smallville and when I had to wire my deposit it was the first time they had ever wired money internationally so you can see why I'm not real confident about what they tell me.
Joelle
Joelle
Apr 12th, 2004, 07:43 PM
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I learned alot about debt and CC, thanks. Here's our story We generally stay in small hotels that only take cash. We found it was very difficult to gather 800 euros from ATMs to pay our hotel bill in Paris. This time we are taking TC in euros to cover our hotel bills. BTW, even in Los Angeles it was difficult to get euros (we needed to send a deposit to hold a hotel room). We found our AAA did not have TC in euros, but we could get them at an excellent rate from American Express Travel (bring cash or an AX card). Also, we and everyone else had alot of trouble in Costa Rica accessing ATMs. It was a real bummer going to the bank to get a credit card advance. If you are going to be dealing alot in a cash culture, I would be weary of just relying on ATMs. Also, if we were having fun, everyday we had to run to the ATM to get more money. I was always thinking about my next withdrawal. So, now we mix it up. A little cash, some TC, credit card and atm card. We charge everything that we can and sleep well knowing that we can always play and pay.
We generally stay in small hotels that only take cash. We found it was very difficult to gather 800 euros from ATMs to pay our hotel bill in Paris. This time we are taking TC in euros to cover our hotel bills. BTW, even in Los Angeles it was difficult to get euros (we needed to send a deposit to hold a hotel room). We found our AAA did not have TC in euros, but we could get them at an excellent rate from American Express Travel (bring cash or an AX card). Also, we and everyone else had alot of trouble in Costa Rica accessing ATMs. It was a real bummer going to the bank to get a credit card advance. If you are going to be dealing alot in a cash culture, I would be weary of just relying on ATMs. Also, if we were having fun, everyday we had to run to the ATM to get more money. I was always thinking about my next withdrawal. So, now we mix it up. A little cash, some TC, credit card and atm card. We charge everything that we can and sleep well knowing that we can always play and pay.
Apr 12th, 2004, 11:27 PM
#57
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For me the wisest way is to take enough euro from my AAA in USA to cover my cash expenses for the first day or two then get the rest by collecting the highest limit at a local ATM as I need it.
When I am jet lagged and exhausted and looking for my driver the last thing I want to do is linger at the airport looking for a working ATM w/o all the people who just grabbed their luggage before me waiting to use it.
This theory has worked for me for the last few years, if I am spending alot of money on a vacation trip a few extra dollars to the AAA doesn't bother me.
Also here in LA a few B of A's carry euro dollars on hand or they can order them for you.
When I am jet lagged and exhausted and looking for my driver the last thing I want to do is linger at the airport looking for a working ATM w/o all the people who just grabbed their luggage before me waiting to use it.
This theory has worked for me for the last few years, if I am spending alot of money on a vacation trip a few extra dollars to the AAA doesn't bother me.
Also here in LA a few B of A's carry euro dollars on hand or they can order them for you.
Apr 13th, 2004, 12:08 PM
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McAudie, to answer your original question, I happened to be near an AAA Travel Office and inquired.
You could buy Euro Travelers Checks for their current daily rate, without any fees. Their current daily rate as of today at the office I went to was $1.30 for 1 Euro. The international exchange rate is about 1.20 (rounded off).
If you wanted to buy just Euros, that AAA Office had packets of 78 Euros for $118.00. That comes to about $1.51 per Euro.
SeaUrchin - I knew exactly what you meant.
You could buy Euro Travelers Checks for their current daily rate, without any fees. Their current daily rate as of today at the office I went to was $1.30 for 1 Euro. The international exchange rate is about 1.20 (rounded off).
If you wanted to buy just Euros, that AAA Office had packets of 78 Euros for $118.00. That comes to about $1.51 per Euro.
SeaUrchin - I knew exactly what you meant.
