Getting around Amsterdam: bike v. tram

Jun 26th, 2014, 11:31 AM
  #41  
 
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Just like cars, if someone is caught without insurance or a license, the penalties would escalate.

For skateboards, I think social pressure should be applied so make people feel stupid to pick up your date on a skateboard over the age of 12.
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Jun 28th, 2014, 03:02 AM
  #42  
 
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PalenQ: "I think you can just walz thru Museumplein and catch the # 9 tram at the southern end of it - a very short pleasant stroll."

There isn't a #9 tram at the southern end of Museumplein.
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Jun 28th, 2014, 03:07 AM
  #43  
 
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IMDonehere: http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/

It's all to do with the infrastructure. Of all cities, Amsterdam is the city perhaps least designed for bike traffic. Modal share of bike travel in Ams, is about 30%, but in Groningen, a city that did entirely adapt to bike travel it's close to 60%.

Every statistic proves that the Netherlands is the safest country for biking. In NL, biking is seen as a slightly faster mode of walking. And many people are insured through their liability insurance.
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Jun 28th, 2014, 08:12 AM
  #44  
 
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. And many people are insured through their liability insurance.>

as they are in IMD's town I'm sure and many are not as in IMD's town.
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Jun 28th, 2014, 08:19 AM
  #45  
 
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These are false comparisons. The population of Ams is under 800,000 and the total population for the entire country is less than 17 million. The total population for the NY metro area is approximately 22 million people. The population for just Manhattan is 1.6 million ( 66,940 people per square mile) and that increases every work day by app. 250,000 commuters. And although I only spent a week in Ams, a huge difference is the amount of truck traffic we have.

And Americans, are unfortunately a highly litigious people making liability insurance just the first step.
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Jun 28th, 2014, 09:37 AM
  #46  
 
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I don't quite know what is being compared with what, and why such comparisons should be false. It's easy to work out how many fatalities per km cycled.

http://drawingrings.blogspot.co.uk/2...therlands.html

Of course, much condemned behaviour by cyclists stems from having to use an infrastructure that is car centric. As the infrastructure changes, so does the behaviour.

I can well imagine that cycling in Amsterdam looks chaotic to those encountering such mass cycling for the first (or even second and third) time.
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Jun 28th, 2014, 12:48 PM
  #47  
 
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I understand that each country and city has its own logic, written and unwritten rules. I found the cyclists in Ams to be aggressive and have a sense of entitlement as if they owned the streets. Maybe that is a wrong impression. Manhattan has the lowest car ownership in the US and younger people are shying away from cars for many reasons. Before more people ride bikes and more get hurt, it would be an appropriate time to start with licensing and insurance requirements.

NY'er are probably the most aggressive jaywalkers in the country, it could be an Olympic sport and now NYC is looking at other cities to see how to curtail pedestrian deaths.

As I tell tourists, if they are not going to jaywalk, get out of the way so others can break the law.
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Jun 28th, 2014, 01:44 PM
  #48  
 
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Before more people ride bikes and more get hurt, it would be an appropriate time to start with licensing and insurance requirements>

and again - same requirements to skate boarders, inline skaters in Central Park - wheel chairs - and on and on... nice idea but proverbial pie in the proverbial sky. And even pedestrians like those jay walkers should also be licensed and have mandatory third-part liability insurance.

Well Mayor Bloomberg in his zeal to play Big Brother perhaps but not De Blasio (sp?).
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Jun 28th, 2014, 01:46 PM
  #49  
 
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What about dogs - should they have to have insurance if they go out in public - they could cause an accident or bite someone or even peeing on a lawn could cause damages - ah the Nanny State if alive and well in IMD's mind.
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Jun 28th, 2014, 02:16 PM
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Certain people require nannies at every age, Palenq.

99% of bikers do not adhere to the rules of the road or common courtesy, thus like all small children who can't take care of themselves, they do need a nanny.

For dogs, the law used to be "one bite free" but in your case we will make an exception.
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Jun 29th, 2014, 06:42 AM
  #51  
 
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The average dog bite damages I read here in Michigan at least if taken to court resulted in several thousand of bucks in damages - but like when a pit bull viciously bit me I sized up that the owner - who said to the cops 'that ain't my dog - he just showed up' - well he was living in a tattered trailer in a clearing in the woods - obviously like getting blood out of a turnip - but if all dog owners were required to have insurance I would have collected for my medical bills and damages.

So I see where you are coming from...
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Jun 29th, 2014, 06:55 AM
  #52  
 
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I would rather see you go.
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Jun 29th, 2014, 08:05 AM
  #53  
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I've lost track of what you all are arguing about.

We survived biking in Amsterdam and I am glad we rented bikes. It was fun!

It is true that they bike fast and you need to be very aware.

But I think some of the advice here could scare some people away from a fun experience. just my opinion.
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Jun 29th, 2014, 08:14 AM
  #54  
 
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But I think some of the advice here could scare some people away from a fun experience. just my opinion.>

I've biked around Amsterdam for years and years and I believe some of the advice here may save injury to life and limb and a pretty scary adventure IF you are not a biker experienced in hectic city biking - of course it depends on where you bike but in the city itself outside of parks it's a zoo on the bike lanes, especially at rush hours - locals will yell at you if you do not know the etiquette of say sounding your horn to pass in tight quarters, etc.

No IMO the best advice is to leave the biking to the locals unless used to congested urban biking. That's may take after decades of biking in Amsterdam and walking incessantly around it, viewing bike travel.
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Jun 29th, 2014, 08:14 AM
  #55  
 
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Philly Fan

Once they are in Ams they can judge for themselves, whether they want to rent a bike or not. Obviously different people have different criteria.
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Jun 29th, 2014, 08:35 AM
  #56  
 
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"99% of bikers do not adhere to the rules of the road or common courtesy, thus like all small children who can't take care of themselves, they do need a nanny. "

coupled with the remarks about "sense of entitlement".

Point is, in NL, if someone on a bike is on a marked bike path, it's compulsory for them to be there. I've often biked in Amsterdam: groups of tourists will leisurely congregate on the bike paths, making themselves a nuisance and a danger to the bike traffic that must be there, it can't get out of the way. I've shouted people off the bike path many times. If you have to do that constantly in the centre, because of the presence of many, many tourists, you don't sound too friendly. I apologize for that.
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Jun 29th, 2014, 09:20 AM
  #57  
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Someone did call me a f****r, but I am 90% sure in the situation I wasn't wrong - I was all the way over on the right and he wanted me on the left.

I've biked in center city Philadelphia and no one ever called me that, LOL. I've also been mountain biking down a mountain in Colorado. Amsterdam is easier.
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Jun 29th, 2014, 09:20 AM
  #58  
 
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As you know, the United States has a car culture, so this is a transition. The other thing, as you probably know, many people, especially college graduates come to NY for fame and fortune and many come from the suburbs or small cities and do not know the unwritten rules of NY nor care to learn them.
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Jun 29th, 2014, 11:57 AM
  #59  
 
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menachem's last post makes me rest my case for why naive tourists may be the bane of the bike paths and be in for verbal and physical abuse - much like pedestrians who dare stray, naively, into the marked bike path and off the marked foot path - if wanting to do the insane IME thing of biking around Amsterdam - learn the rules of the path and etiquette - PhillyFan illustrates this well - he/she did not know they were violating the etiquette but obviously did - Dutch bikers don't yell at you unless you are acting like a hazard or a path hog IME.
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Jun 29th, 2014, 09:46 PM
  #60  
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Physical abuse??

You make a lot of generalizations, Pal.

I stand by my opinion. Our B&b owner recommended we rent bikes and declared it "perfectly safe".
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