After researching Train fares and AutoEurope alternative I am a bit puzzled and would appreciate your opinion/input with such an experience.

First: I understand our family can purchase a 27E ticket to train within Bavaria that covers our family of 4. I can understand how this works with the exception of: what if your destination is one town outside of the map of Bavarian rails? We have 2 rail trips in this itinerary to get from point A to B, not a day trip. In each case either
the destination or departure city is inside of Bavaria. We also have one trip planned from Strasbourg back to Stuttgart. I used
www.bahn.de to calculate those fares.

While we had not really considered renting a vehicle because using the train system seems such a logical choice after adding up the fares and converting to US dollars, using the trains is about double the cost for an auto rental. I understand this does not reflect the cost of fuel or the frustration involved in driving, and what driving could be like in December. Gosh it looks like over a 14 day period train fare runs between $750-$830 vs. AutoEurope basic rate for 4 dr Opel Wagon of $458 US. There were 2 rates for the same vehicle, Inclusive and Basic, the basic does not cover Collision Damage Waiver which I need to educate myself on (Did not deal with this when we rented in Italy) but it does almost double that $450 rate.

Anyway, am a bit surprised how these numbers add up (using the the rails) and didn't think we would be considering renting a car. Please share your knowledge with us!

Thanks,
Tiller

If you go to BudgetEuropeTravel.com, you can get their 800 number and call them for advice. They will know how the Bayern pass works in your case. They are extremely knowledgeable and helpful.
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Bavarian ticket would only cover to the Bavarian border and then you'd need a point-point ticket to use from there or another Lander pass of same price or about to continue on into that Lander

Lander tickets for all over Europe can be bought in Munich and other station at the newer automatic ticketing machines.

Or consider the German Rail Pass where for about $180 or so per adult you get 4 days unlimited travel all over Germany - including Strasbourg for all practical reasons (need to buy a few euro ticket to cover French portion)

The pass can be used anytime on any train, unlike Lander tickets such as Bavarian one where you can only use regional trains and not the much faster and much nicer ICE trains and other express trains.

Kids under 12 pay 50% of the adult German Pass price

It's not clear from your exact expected train trips whether pass could be viable or not - depends on your out of Bavarian destinations and how quickly you want to get there.

There is also a Germany Rail and Drive pass that is really good priced - gives a certain number of days of unlimited train travel all over Germany and then you can pick up cars at stations and drive them thru rural areas or cities of course to another station and return them to hop back on the train. This could be the best option of all of mixing train and car - it terms of economics

Anyway as they are like to say in Germany - Have a Gute Fahrt (have a good ride or journey)

I'm not surprised.

Train certainly makes a lot of financial sense for 1 or 2 people - but by the time you get to 4 people - even assuming a reasonable size car - the car costs can be the same or even less.

For insurance - you need to look at your credit cards and see what insurance they provide for free. You might not need any more - depending on what type/level of card you have.

you'll need a very large and more expensive car for 4 - kids may be happier on the train where they can move around.

keep distance low if car is my advice.

Also: I am using the website www.bahn.de to estimate cost of train tickets. Is this the best site to use? I have used this site to calculate tickets for: 3 adult-1 child

Stuttgart to Nurnberg: 86E-$119US
Munich to Strasbourg: 196E-$271US
Strasbourg to Stuttgart:127E-$175
Total: 409E-$566US

If there is a better website please let me know. A few years back when estimating rail travel in Italy, I used RailEurope to calculate fares instead of Trenitalia, big difference, so just wanted to know if above website is "authentic".

Thanks
Tiller

none better than bahn.de

also look for online advance discounted SPAR type tickets - if available should say in info on right

you are quoting full fare tickets i think

I've done Germany (and Austria and Switzerland) twice in the past 3 years entirely by train.

While a car may look to be a reasonable deal, parking can be a nightmare, expecially in Munich or Nürnberg. PalenqueBob's probably right about getting a bigger car considering 4 full-size humans and their belongings. The "train-only" method will (at least I hope it will) get you to pack lighter than the typical way we do it in the states, taking a month's worth of stuff for a 3-day tour. I also find it to be a most interesting way to travel, I considered it part of the cultural experience. A compromise might be to use the train for major moves and rent a car for day trips to out-of-the-way places.

That said, I considered renting a car for our trip this May, the financial part worked-out just slightly better by taking the trains, but I just felt renting a car wasn't worth the hassle. We like to enjoy the many fine wines and beers in Germany which would have rendered the car useless on far too many occasions. Consider also that the driver will not get to focus on and enjoy the marvelous sights and view as carefully as if sitting back and allowing the train to whisk you to your next destination.

Better yet...dump the family and rent a motorcycle! OK, just kidding!

MvK

Having a car is a luxury, but speaking for my wife & kids when they were younger, they prefered the car. My wife loved the fact that all their supplies can stay inside the car instead of dragging them in the suitcases through the flight of stairs in the smaller train stations. My kids enjoyed having their personal space with no stranger around. They listen to their music and sing along in the car when they were younger.

I personally prefer the train because I don't have to drive. My wife also dislikes having to follow the train schedule.

On our last trip we had the car till the last two days because I didn't want the long drive from Germany to Vienna. We went to the wine country by train and missed the train by 3 minutes so we ended up waiting an extra 3 hours for the next train.

no question do the car....it offers full flexibility and allows you to go whereever you want.....driving is very easy in germany....just get a good road atlas---buy at any gas station....this is a book full of localized maps....

try working with these people: www.gemut.com

andrew bestor the owner's son handles the car part and he can give great advice to you....you can't beat their rates or service....they are in either washington state or oregon....they specialize in germany....they can also help with hotels and trains...rely on them, i have and have come away pleased each time....

buy your gas at grocery stores to save money.....get a diesel car....

pack light!! trunks are small...

auto europe is very good also

I will be glad to share with you what I know. We rented a car in Munich this summer and accepted the insurance that was offered in the package deal. The difference between the insurance price and the basic price was not as great as the figures I am seeing now on Auto Europe.

Bear in mind, however, that even if you accept the collision/theft insurance, it does not cover you 100%. I think the deductible for a small wagon is something like $950.

If you decide to rent a car, I think you need to consider two factors:

1. If you rent in Munich, cars from the airport or the train station are more expensive because of the tourist tax.
I rented mine from the office on Denningerstrasse which was a short cab ride from my hotel. (The Astoria)

2. If you decline the damage insurance, you will need to rely on your credit card to cover the damage costs. I have not personally experienced any damage to a rental car for which I had to submit a claim. So I am not personally familiar with what happens if you smack up a car in a foreign country.

3. More than likely you will need to rent a standard shift. If that 3rd pedal baffles you, be prepared to search for an automatic and pay much more for it.

The Bavaria Ticket is a good way to travel, if you accept its limitations.
Bear in mind that the ticket is good to a few destinations outside of Bavaria.
For example, Salzburg is included as is Kufstein. Both cities are in Austria but Die Deutsche Bahn serves both.
In fact, if you travel from Salzburg to Munich, for example, you buy your ticket from Die Bahn rather than the ÖBB, the Austrian rail system.

I think another factor here is where you intend to drive the car. Inside Munich itself, a car is a problem because of parking. You either pay for it, or park well away from you want to be. In the Schwabing area where I visit mostly, parking is at a premium: restricted and costly.

When it comes to parking, just about all inner cities in Germany have parking restrictions and high cost parking lots.
They are no different than US cities in that respect.

I think others have described what to do if your destination is outside of Bavaria AND the destination is not part of the Bayern Ticket network.

You can download a good description of the Bavaria Ticket at this location:
http://tinyurl.com/22has3

It is a PDF file and the description is in 4 languages. Scroll down a bit to find English, unless of course your German is up to speed. It is easy reading in German I might add if you have some knowledge of the language.

The tradeoffs involved are many in this case.
You must weigh several factors:

** car versus train costs.
Car costs include gasoline as well as parking fees.

** car convenience versus train convenience Car is often faster and, for 4, it can be more economical.

** risk assesement for insurance

oops Make that 3 factors.

One final thought. If you want to buzz around the towns of south Bavaria, I recommend a car. They can be reached by bus and/or train, but convenience suffers greatly if you are town hopping.

One other factor is that if you rent for a week, keeping the car for only 5 days is about the same price with Auto Europe contracts in many cases.

I think you might want to consider part train and part car like I have done in Switzerland. For the Berner Oberland, I needed no car. Last year we drove all over the Alps, so a car was a great convenience.

Thanks for all the helpful information-

Will have to contact AutoEurope about the Basic vs Inclusive coverage; as I posted above the $458 auto rental for 14 days includes taxes and is about the same price as two days of travel by train; Munich to Strasbourg and then Strasbourg to Stuttgart. Would probably pick up and drop off Stuttgart, beginning and end of visit. We traveled each with a carry-on to Italy so understand limited interior car space and dragging bag to train station. Driving in Italy just about drove my dh crazy a few days, so don't know if we are up for that again, but
he was stationed in Germany long ago and perhaps would feel more comfortable with driving than myself.
Driving and stopping along the way for lunches or interesting towns is a nice idea, just don't know if December would be a good idea to be driving with winter road conditions. Definately would not want to after dark, which I am guessing would be five-ish.

Thanks again, have alot to consider in the info posted,

Tiller

If you're renting in the winter, you may want to request for winter tires. If you rent in Austria/Switzerland, the car will automatically come with winter tires, but in Germany there's no law requiring them to give you winterized tires. We & our friends got caught in a snow storm in a December month and were stuck in Austria.

SIXT rental car took our car back in Austria and gave us credit since they realized it's dangerous for us to drive it to Munich without winter tires, but our friends who rented from a cheaper rental car company had to pay an extra 300 dollar for not bringing it back to Munich even though the summer tires wouldn't allow them to drive it back in the snow condition.

DAX is right, you do need to request snow tires in Germany. We rented a car from EuropCar for a family trip down the Romantic Road in December 2005 and had to request snow tires. It really surprises me that they aren't included automatically, because there are severe consequences if you cause an accident in the winter in Germany and you don't have snow tires. The law became stricter last year although some people still drive without snow tires. I just wouldn't risk it if I was taking a vacation in Bavaria in December.

On the other hand, don't let the prospect of winter driving discourage you TOO much. We are living in Stuttgart and have driven all over southern Germany and into the Austrian Alps in winter. The roads have typically been cleared and salted promptly. In general we find driving in Germany to be FAR less stressful than, say, England, France, or Italy. But it is true that it will get dark early (about 5 pm) and it's a bit more difficult to navigate at night. It really comes down to whether the places you want to visit are convenient to reach by train versus having the flexibility and comfort of your own vehicle.

I believe that the law has changed in Germany and now requires winter tyres. Certainly if you are involved in an accident in the winter months, and do not have winter tyres fitted you are automatically deemed responsible for the accident. So check that the car will have winter tyres.
WHat model of Opel wagon are you talking about? Generally you will not need a huge car for two adults and two children. It may feel small initially compared to your US vehicle but we Europeans fit in small European cars with our families and drive them all over the continent without feeling that they are too small.
It really depends on how confident you or your partner is in drivning in possible winter conditions, and whether you prefer the flexibility of a car whether you go for that option. Not driving after dark will severely impare your trips though.

Ironically, the rental car company is not required by law to equip their cars with winter tires as in Switzerland & Austria. From what they told me, in Germany snow tires are a rental option and there is a surcharge.

The car rental rate is most expensive for Americans, but if you have a secondary citizenship or residence from any other country, you can take advantage of the much cheaper rates, up to 50 % less at Hertz or Avis online reservation. You just have to show proof that you are a resident of another country or possess a passport from another country if you use an American driver's license.

Thank you to last few posts and all the info on auto rentals and the law in Germany: I went back to the AutoEurope website and they do not offer snow tires as an option:Hertz does. Guess we are outa luck on that dual citizenship discount however, thanks again for all your help here!All is appreciated.

Tiller