Geneva to Venice
May 30th, 2007 | 12:23 AM
#3
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There are not a lot of low-cost airlines operating out of Geneva or Zurich. You might try Basel airport instead. These flights may require a connection. Basel is about 2.5 hours by train from Geneva so not really that convenient if your destination is Geneva.
There is the super-fast Cisalpino trains which go from Venice Santa Lucia to Geneva in 7 hours. IMO these are the trains to take. Door to door with travel time to Venice airport, check-in, security, etc. the train is really not much more time than flying (and with inevitable flight delays could well be faster), although it may not be cheaper. They certainly are easier, IMO. Very scenic if you do it in daylight. You can have a nice meal on board. For info on the Cisalpino, go to http://www.cisalpino.ch . I believe this train runs every day all year, but check the website. You can reserve and buy tickets directly through the website, or at rail.ch. You could take it instead to somplace like Zermatt (change in Brig) if you wanted to stay in the mountains. The line goes up through the valley next to Zermatt.
I have seen some of your other posts. Are you locked into a flight out of Geneva? If not, you might consider going to the Alps in Austria, which is closer to Italy and cheaper than Switzerland. A fantastic train ride would be from Venice to Salzburg, and then spend a few days in Salzburg which is a lovely town with good Christmas markets and you can go up to the mountains form there as well. The train ride takes about 6-8 hours, but if done during the day will reward you with really wonderful scenery. You might find low-cost flights to Salzburg or Vienna (also has a great Christmas market; Swiss ones are not so great.)
Even closer of course, are the wonderful Italian Alps. You can get to the Bolzano area from Venice in 2-3 hours. You could fly in and out of Venice and have a few days in the Italian Alps in between. The Italian Alps would seem to make a lot more sense on a holiday which seems to be all about Italy.
If you do have to fly out of Geneva, consider staying further down the lake in one of the nicer (IMO) towns like Vevey or even Montreux or Lausanne. Or a really small village like Morges. These are more pleasant than Geneva, IMO, but have the good rail service to get you to the mountains if you want to.
There is the super-fast Cisalpino trains which go from Venice Santa Lucia to Geneva in 7 hours. IMO these are the trains to take. Door to door with travel time to Venice airport, check-in, security, etc. the train is really not much more time than flying (and with inevitable flight delays could well be faster), although it may not be cheaper. They certainly are easier, IMO. Very scenic if you do it in daylight. You can have a nice meal on board. For info on the Cisalpino, go to http://www.cisalpino.ch . I believe this train runs every day all year, but check the website. You can reserve and buy tickets directly through the website, or at rail.ch. You could take it instead to somplace like Zermatt (change in Brig) if you wanted to stay in the mountains. The line goes up through the valley next to Zermatt.
I have seen some of your other posts. Are you locked into a flight out of Geneva? If not, you might consider going to the Alps in Austria, which is closer to Italy and cheaper than Switzerland. A fantastic train ride would be from Venice to Salzburg, and then spend a few days in Salzburg which is a lovely town with good Christmas markets and you can go up to the mountains form there as well. The train ride takes about 6-8 hours, but if done during the day will reward you with really wonderful scenery. You might find low-cost flights to Salzburg or Vienna (also has a great Christmas market; Swiss ones are not so great.)
Even closer of course, are the wonderful Italian Alps. You can get to the Bolzano area from Venice in 2-3 hours. You could fly in and out of Venice and have a few days in the Italian Alps in between. The Italian Alps would seem to make a lot more sense on a holiday which seems to be all about Italy.
If you do have to fly out of Geneva, consider staying further down the lake in one of the nicer (IMO) towns like Vevey or even Montreux or Lausanne. Or a really small village like Morges. These are more pleasant than Geneva, IMO, but have the good rail service to get you to the mountains if you want to.
May 30th, 2007 | 12:57 AM
#4
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Before someone accuses me of not being correct, I should point out that Bolzano and Cortina, etc are part of the Dolomite mountain range and are not technically part of the Alps. I don’t think you would notice the difference.....they are high, beautiful snow-capped mountains.
Cortina is pretty expensive for hotels IMO, but pre-Christmas (don’t know when your trip is) should be not so bad. It would be about 5 hours by train from Venice, and about 6.5 from Florence.
Cortina is pretty expensive for hotels IMO, but pre-Christmas (don’t know when your trip is) should be not so bad. It would be about 5 hours by train from Venice, and about 6.5 from Florence.
May 30th, 2007 | 01:09 AM
#5
Joined: Feb 2006
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>I should point out that Bolzano and Cortina, etc are part of the Dolomite mountain range and are not technically part of the Alps.
I realize that it is a technical discussion, but the Dolomites range is OF COURSE a part of the Alps! Unless you want to forget the Alps as such and speak about "Northern Chalk Alps, Central Alps, Berner Oberland, Mont Blac Massif" etc. as separate mountain ranges too.
I realize that it is a technical discussion, but the Dolomites range is OF COURSE a part of the Alps! Unless you want to forget the Alps as such and speak about "Northern Chalk Alps, Central Alps, Berner Oberland, Mont Blac Massif" etc. as separate mountain ranges too.
May 30th, 2007 | 02:51 AM
#7
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Thanks, Cicerone. Once again you have been a great help. There is no particular reason why I would need to go to Geneva other than wanting to give the kids a bit of an Alpine experience. I have had a look at the Cisalpino website and must say that I really like what I see. At this stage, a trip from Venice to Zurich sounds good and I can fly out of Zurich on Emirates on my way home. I also quite like the suggestion about Salzburg. Is there a particular train to take to Salzburg as it seems that Cisalpino does not go there?
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May 30th, 2007 | 06:57 PM
#8
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For Venice to Salzburg I think that you really want the train that goes via a change in Villach (Austria) , as I believe it is more scenic than the one that goes via a change in Porta Nuova which takes the Brenner Pass (which I think goes through a tunnel, others may have more precise info on this route). I have taken the one via Villach and it really has some great mountain scenery. There is no super-fast Cisalpino, but there are nice EC trains which have dining cars and are very comfortable. From Venice in early December there is EC #32 which departs at 8:45 am and arrives at 3 pm. This would mean the whole trip is in daylight which would give you maximum viewing and you could have lunch on the train (book a table would be my recco, dining car comes on after the connection). You can see departure times on the rail.ch website. If you are travelling on a weekday and NOT during Christmas week I think you could wait to purchase tickets until you arrive in Europe, otherwise you could buy them through RailEurope (which charges a fee). You may also be able to buy them through the rail.ch or treinitalia.com or http://www.oebb.at/vip8/oebb/en/index.jsp
websites. You might look at first class cars for Italian trains, you do get nicer/newer cars and more leg room and you can reserve seats (although on EC trains you generally have to make a reservation ahead of time which often includes a seat reservation). Note that train times sometimes change slightly from time to time so you should check again as your dates get closer.
You can fly with Emirates to from Vienna to J-burg via Dubai, which appears to be the same routing as if you went from Zurich, so staying in Austria may be a more attractive option than going to Switzerland. It’s only a 3 hour train ride between Salzburg and Vienna, and the Emirates flight is in the afternoon so you could easily depart Salzburg in the morning and make the afternoon flight. Vienna of course has the Lipannzaer horses, the Vienna boys choir, wonderful pastries, some very interesting palaces, and really excellent Christmas markets. A great place pre-Christmas IMO if you wanted to spend time there as well. (I have been assuming your trip in not during Christmas week, if it is, you should book trains well ahead of time, as loads of people will be traveling then. First class would definately be a recco for that week.)
For Zurich, trains are going to take longer from Venice (8 hours), but you could consider getting off at an intermediate stop and heading to the mountains for a few days first and then going to Zurich for the flight out. This may make your initial train trip from Venice longer, however . You could get off in Arth-Goldau and then take a train for a little village like Engelberg, which is 2 hours further by train, or to the Jungfrau valley, which is another 3.5 hours by train. Towns like Wengen, Murren, Grindelwald, Lauterbrunnen. You could also go a bit further to a place like Gstaad, or Kandersteg. These are wonderful because they are really in the mountains, esp Engelberg, Wengen and Murren, IMO. (Salzburg is surrounded by glorious mountains and you can get to them for the day, but the town is not up in them. However, you could also get off the train on the way to Salzburg at a village like St. Johann which is in the mountains and spend a few days there to get the Alpine experience.) Or stay at a place along the big lakes in the valley like Thun or Speiz. From any of these place, you need about 2-4 hours to get to Zurich for the flight out. I like Zurich a lot (used to live there), but it does not compare to a place like Vienna (or even Salzburg) for Christmas markets, palaces, churches, etc. And with the longer train ride to Swizterland, I think Austria may be a better choice actually. I still think the Italian Alps may be the most logical place for you, can’t you just take the Emirates out of Venice to J-burg via Dubai? You could go to the Bolzano area first and then to Venice. Without knowing how long your trip is, it is hard to say whether these longish train rides are “worth” 2-3 days in the mountains, or if you have a week or more to spend.
websites. You might look at first class cars for Italian trains, you do get nicer/newer cars and more leg room and you can reserve seats (although on EC trains you generally have to make a reservation ahead of time which often includes a seat reservation). Note that train times sometimes change slightly from time to time so you should check again as your dates get closer.
You can fly with Emirates to from Vienna to J-burg via Dubai, which appears to be the same routing as if you went from Zurich, so staying in Austria may be a more attractive option than going to Switzerland. It’s only a 3 hour train ride between Salzburg and Vienna, and the Emirates flight is in the afternoon so you could easily depart Salzburg in the morning and make the afternoon flight. Vienna of course has the Lipannzaer horses, the Vienna boys choir, wonderful pastries, some very interesting palaces, and really excellent Christmas markets. A great place pre-Christmas IMO if you wanted to spend time there as well. (I have been assuming your trip in not during Christmas week, if it is, you should book trains well ahead of time, as loads of people will be traveling then. First class would definately be a recco for that week.)
For Zurich, trains are going to take longer from Venice (8 hours), but you could consider getting off at an intermediate stop and heading to the mountains for a few days first and then going to Zurich for the flight out. This may make your initial train trip from Venice longer, however . You could get off in Arth-Goldau and then take a train for a little village like Engelberg, which is 2 hours further by train, or to the Jungfrau valley, which is another 3.5 hours by train. Towns like Wengen, Murren, Grindelwald, Lauterbrunnen. You could also go a bit further to a place like Gstaad, or Kandersteg. These are wonderful because they are really in the mountains, esp Engelberg, Wengen and Murren, IMO. (Salzburg is surrounded by glorious mountains and you can get to them for the day, but the town is not up in them. However, you could also get off the train on the way to Salzburg at a village like St. Johann which is in the mountains and spend a few days there to get the Alpine experience.) Or stay at a place along the big lakes in the valley like Thun or Speiz. From any of these place, you need about 2-4 hours to get to Zurich for the flight out. I like Zurich a lot (used to live there), but it does not compare to a place like Vienna (or even Salzburg) for Christmas markets, palaces, churches, etc. And with the longer train ride to Swizterland, I think Austria may be a better choice actually. I still think the Italian Alps may be the most logical place for you, can’t you just take the Emirates out of Venice to J-burg via Dubai? You could go to the Bolzano area first and then to Venice. Without knowing how long your trip is, it is hard to say whether these longish train rides are “worth” 2-3 days in the mountains, or if you have a week or more to spend.
May 31st, 2007 | 11:59 AM
#9
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Thanks again Cicerone. I can't believe how much trouble you have gone to to be of assistance. It is really really appreciated. The other side of it is that, just as I thought that I had the plans pretty much sorted, you have now given me so many other better options. I really like the sound of the train trip to either Zurich or Vienna. I think that I have now decided that Geneva is not an option. My wife and I have been to Vienna before (18 years ago) and really loved the city so that is really an option. As far as the rain trips are concerned though, which one of Venice Vienna or Venice Zurich is likely to offer the better Alpine scenery? It seems that the Zurich trip may be more through the Alps than the Vienna trip, or is that incorrect? Also, how much of the respective trips are likely to be through tunnels and will there still be quite a lot to see on the way?
On the question of time, our time will be rather limited in that we cannot leave South Africa before 4 December and have to leave to come home again on 18 December and we want to visit friends in London for a few days at the beginning of the trip. As a result, we will probably have no more than a day and a half (two nights) in Zurich or Vienna.
Again, I just want to say thanks for all the help so far.
On the question of time, our time will be rather limited in that we cannot leave South Africa before 4 December and have to leave to come home again on 18 December and we want to visit friends in London for a few days at the beginning of the trip. As a result, we will probably have no more than a day and a half (two nights) in Zurich or Vienna.
Again, I just want to say thanks for all the help so far.
May 31st, 2007 | 06:58 PM
#10
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Is my understanding correct that the most time you can spend in either Austria or Switzerland is 2 days out of the entire trip? If so, my honest advice really is to skip this entirely. IMO neither is worth an 8-11 hour train ride, no matter how pretty. Neither place is IN the Alps, and the train rides will give you some views, but NO “Alpine experience”. With 2 days, IMO you really should take the 2-2 hour train ride from Venice to Belluno or Bolzano and spend the 2 days actually IN the mountains rather than viewing them from a train. Your kids can play in the snow rather than just looking at it from a moving train. Then train back to Venice and take the Emirates flight out. Do some reading on the Dolomites, they really are a lovely area. I always say the Swiss don't have better mountains, just a better PR machine...
I have not taken the train from Venice to Vienna. From the routing, for the faster trains at least of third of it is the same routing as to Salzburg (i.e. it goes via Villach) so I can say that it would be quite scenic for that portion, I can’t speak for the rest. Some trains take a route via Innsbrck which I think would be pretty as well, but this also via the Brenner Pass, which I believe is through a tunnel, but don’t know for sure. You might want to post a question on that specifically. I do think that the Venice-Salzburg route is a more scenic route that the Venice-Zurich route. (I have only done portions of the Venice-Zurich route in daylight, from Bologna to Zurich, Florence to Zurich and Como to Zurich on various occasions, I have gone Venice-Zurich by night trains only.) The only mountain portion of the Venice-Zurich route will be at and after Lake Como and even that portion is not nearly as pretty as Venice-Salzburg, or as many other train rides in Switzerland. You will also go through a tunnel at Gotthard. But really, I would not do EITHER trip if I only had 2 days out of a 3 week trip that was focusing on Italy and London. (There are dozens of excellent Alpine train rides in Switzerland, save it for another trip....)
I have not taken the train from Venice to Vienna. From the routing, for the faster trains at least of third of it is the same routing as to Salzburg (i.e. it goes via Villach) so I can say that it would be quite scenic for that portion, I can’t speak for the rest. Some trains take a route via Innsbrck which I think would be pretty as well, but this also via the Brenner Pass, which I believe is through a tunnel, but don’t know for sure. You might want to post a question on that specifically. I do think that the Venice-Salzburg route is a more scenic route that the Venice-Zurich route. (I have only done portions of the Venice-Zurich route in daylight, from Bologna to Zurich, Florence to Zurich and Como to Zurich on various occasions, I have gone Venice-Zurich by night trains only.) The only mountain portion of the Venice-Zurich route will be at and after Lake Como and even that portion is not nearly as pretty as Venice-Salzburg, or as many other train rides in Switzerland. You will also go through a tunnel at Gotthard. But really, I would not do EITHER trip if I only had 2 days out of a 3 week trip that was focusing on Italy and London. (There are dozens of excellent Alpine train rides in Switzerland, save it for another trip....)
