Family of 4 (2 teens) going in late Aug-9/2. Rome. Florence, Venice. I was hoping not to make any dinner reservations and just eat where and when we chose at the moment. Is this a dumb idea? Any general advice on chosing a restaurant, and/or ordering would be appreciated. Thanks

1. Don't go to tourist traps--usually along streets busy with travellers, have "tourist menu" in at least five languages.
2. Don't order pasta as a main course
(unless you're ordering an appetiser).
3. Don't order salad as an appetiser. Side dish veggies come AFTER the main course.
4. Default after-dinner coffee is espresso. Latte is for breakfast (or before noon), it's getting easier to get de-caf, but you still get de-caf espresso.
Very general, but it's hard to give more specific advice without knowing how much you want to spend/what your family like eating.

Our family of 5 (kids ages 15, 13 and 10) took the same trip earlier this summer. Amazingly, we were quite disappointed with the food. We had some bad experiences at restaurants that were highly recommended and some bad experiences at places we "happened" upon. Most of these were restaurants where the majority of the guests were Italian. We had a few good meals, but not many. I had studied these boards and knew to avoid the "tourist trap" restaurants, etc., but the food was not as good as I expected.

One thing we finally figured out is that you have to pay quite a bit more for a meal than in the US to get "quality." (Others on this board will passionately dispute this.) I was surprised at the cheap ingredients used at "reasonably" priced restaurants. For example, of the four meals where olives were a part of a salad, appetizer, etc., on three of those were cheap canned black olives. Here we are in a restaurant on the Campo dei Fiori in Rome, being served cheap black olives, where a few feet away in the marketplace, they are selling beautiful olives. On another occasion, at a restaurant that was highly recommended, I ordered veal with mushrooms, and the veal was covered with CANNED mushrooms! I don't remember when I've ever been served canned mushrooms in a restaurant. At the same place, DD13 ordered the roasted 1/4 chicken. The waiter later came and said they'd be serving her a chicken breast. And that is just what they served...a plain chicken breast. However, at the next table 5 minutes later, a lady ordered, and was served, the 1/4 roasted chicken. We never understood that.

Back to the prices...when we were willing to pay in the $130-$150 range (for 5 of us) we got a meal of good quality, for which we'd normally pay in the $80 range at home.

The pizza was pretty good and we ate at quite a few pizzarias, once we were discouraged by other types of resturants. However, we never got that quite right either. When we'd order other courses (appetizer, etc.), all the food would arrive at once. Maybe that is the custom in a pizzaria...again, we never quite figured that out.

Lots of folks will tell you that because the pizza is so thin, you need to order one pizza each. We did that the first time and had WAY too much left over.

I will probably be flamed for not loving the food in Italy. We are not backwoods folks who expected Chef Boyardee spaghetti. I followed all the recommendations posted on this board, and we still had lots of pretty bad meals; few "great" ones. The reason I'm going into this is that I had heard that the food was so good in Italy that you could get a great meal almost anywhere. If I had to do it again, I would pay a lot more attention to where we ate, and to seek out certain restaurants that got universally great reviews.

We were a group of 12 and never made a reservation for a meal (just got back from Italy). We found a great restaurant in Rome - Trattoria Da Giuseppe, via Principe Amedeo, (a few blocks from Termini and off of Via Gioberti). Tell them that Vincenzo from NY sent you. Yellow Bar and Za Za's in Florence were great too. Don't eat anywhere near the Vatican!

My experience (limited) was similar to missypie on two trips to Venice. that even at recommended restaurants i wasn't all that impressed.

That said, what i DID love are the casual meals. There are fantastic sandwiches in the small cafes around Venice. Usually pre-made in a glass case... roasted vegetables, sliced boiled eggs and tomatoes, like that. And pizza by the Grand Canal was one of our favorite meals, honestly.

Missypie -

Not sure where you're from - but that may be the cause of your sticker shock in restauants.

Here in NYC there's no way you would get a dinner for 5 for $80 - unless it was in a coffee shop (ie diner) - and even then you could have only soft drinks - and not order the most expensive items.

In an actual restaurant - casuale neighborhood, definitely nothing fancy - a dinner for 2 adults and 3 kids (salad for each, a chicken dish, soft drink for kids and 1 glass wine for adults) would be in the neighborhood of $150/$160 with tax and tip. Dessert and coffee would be extra.

That said, I have never had a bad meal in Italy (except Venice) including sandwich shops, pizzerias, tavola caldas, etc. We have always had the freshest of ingredients - and sometimes in the least expensive places they would tell you the incredibly delicious tiny strawberries for dessert came from the farm of uncle Guiseppi.

Perhaps you just had bad luck in choosing places. But - for 5 people for a real dinner - and given the pitiful state of the dollar - I would be surprised at anything under $200.

And back to the OP - many times we did not make reservations for dinner. Somtimes during the day we would see a place we liked and go in and ask about dinner - but as often as not we just wandered and found somewhere. We did reservations only for the one night in each city we did a "special" dinner at a highly recommended place.

Yes, I admit that we had sticker shock. We live in Dallas and eat out a lot. A few weeks ago we went to Texas Roadhouse, a Texas-based chain, I believe. I ordered the sirloin brochette, at $8.99. For that price I got (a) unlimited fresh rolls with sweet butter, (b) an okay but fresh salad, and (c) lovely tender chunks of sirloin cooked with fresh peppers, onions and mushrooms, served over rice (in true Texas form, a larger portion than I could finish). I admit that we are spoiled by prices that low, but I would have thought that in Italy, if paying twice as much, the ingredients would be fresh rather than canned.

I'll admit that I'm obsessive about restaurants on vacation; not that I reserve them all in advance, I just do a lot of research and reserve some in advance.

But for those less obsessive people (!), I would suggest that you make some plans in advance. While just eating wherever and whenver can sometimes be easier, it can be very stressed out to be in a group of people (especially one that includes teens or kids) standing in front of a restaurant, staring at the menu, and having that conversation that goes, "Well, what do you think?" "I don't know; what do you think?"

So I would suggest that you collect (from here or guidebooks) some names of restaurants that sound good to you (i.e., if you like seafood, then seafood places), particularly for dinner near where your hotel is. Then you have some possibilities for when the group can't decide. You can ask your hotel to make reservations for you, either the day of the dinner or the day before. Also, if you're walking past a restaurant at 3 pm and it looks like a good place for dinner, just walk in and make a reservation for dinner.

Many restaurants only have one seating a night, and/or won't have a waitlist, unlike in the U.S. If all the tables are full, the restaurant staff will just say, "we're full," and you're off to find another restaurant.

Another bit of advice, many restaurants are closed on Sunday, and a number are closed on Sat and/or Mon. So for Sunday at least, you might want to make a reservation.

For more general advice, if your teens like to drink soda, keep in mind that it's very expensive in Europe. If they drink soda, encourage them to try European or Italian brands. My son now loves limonata!

Missipie, I totally understand and relate to your experience with food, except this is how I felt this summer in Paris. Where was all the fabulous French food, I have no idea, and some of the restaurants raved about on this board, were like 'Emperor's new clothes,' if you know what I mean. We had a few nice meals, but the rest were just passable, regardless of the price of a meal.

We did, however, hit some great restaurants in Italy: Rome, Venice and Florence. Some rather reasonable, or at least they were in 2004.

ccs, if you want to drop me an e-mail at [email protected], I will be happy to provide you with a list of our Italian "winners." I am not really a 'foodie,' but am very demanding in terms of quality of what I eat, so am comfortable recommending places.

Anna Roz

I have had wonderful luck at medium to inexpensive restaurants in Rome, and have never encountered canned olives or mushrooms on my food. I think I'm pretty picky about food and preparation. On the other hand, I doubt very much that I would be at all happy at a Texas Roadhouse eating an $ 8.99 sirloin brochette with a house salad. We all have different tastes and appreciate different things.

Meanwhile, css, if you're in the same area for several days, my favorite thing is scouting out one place one night for the next night. When you go to dinner see what places look particularly busy and if possible how the food looks. If you try to eat at a place and they tell you it is all booked, then consider booking there for the next night. One of the best things about searching in Italy is that the vast majority of restaurants have their menus posted.

I'll also confess to something that I was so stupid about, given what an otherwise obsessive planner I am. I'd read trip reports and restaurant reviews, mostly on this board, and copy them into a Word document, which I put in my beautifully organized trip notebook. Most of us don't put the address of a restaurant in our trip reports (we're doing good to even remember the name!). So I ended up with these pages of recommended restaurants with "addresses" like "two blocks off the Piazza Navona"....well, duh! There are about 10 streets that feed into the Piazza Navona...we could have walked for several hours going to all the locations that were a couple of blocks off the Piazza!

So, don't be like me. If you're interested in a restaurant, get the street address!

Neopolitan, you'd be surprised at the quality of food we have here for a low price. The steak at the lowly Texas Roadhouse is twice as tender and flavorful as sirloin I had in Italy for which I paid well over twice the price. That was really the point of my post. I don't know where css is from, but if he or she is used to paying "Dallas" prices, he or she needs to get over that to have good meals in Rome, Florence and Venice.

Hi C,

Don't be discouraged by Missypie's dining experiences. I've had quite the opposite!

In three trips to Italy I can could the bad meals on one hand -- and 3 out of 2 of those I knew what I was in for since they were directly across from the Vatican museum and in Assisi's main piazza respectively.

I do like hearing the restaurant recommendations on the board, however, I find that once I'm there it's just too much trouble to make reservations and hunt down addresses.

I have had great luck asking for recommendations from my hotels, once I explain that I am looking for authentic, local specialties and would like to dine somewhere where they would go!

I also will choose a restaurant just by walking by and checking out the menu and other diners.

I travel on a somewhat limited budget and my last trip was solo. I tend to spend more on great meals than hotel rooms. Most of my meals on the last trip were 20 - 60E with good wines, not counting a quick panino or pizza lunch/picnic.

Buon viaggio!

Hope this helps!

CSS, are your teens the type who will "eat anything", or are they more particular?

I had never eaten a bad meal in a French speaking country until we took our kids to Paris. One daughter, in particular, is pretty picky. When traveling without kids, we would stop at some little place, populated by locals, and eat there, even if there were only 6 things on the menu and even if we didn't quite know what those 6 things were. The meals were always great. When traveling with a child ho is not a very adventurious eater, we did eat at slightly larger places with larger menus. That may explain some bad food in Paris and more in Italy.

That is why I told the OP to gather some recommendations; they might have the same issues as we did, because they are traveling with kids.

We were in Rome, Florence and Venice this past May. I think you can easily find good food if you look further than the touristy traps, obviously. (We did not see a single canned olive!!)

I posted trip reports for each city, which you can find if you click on my screen name above. My reports include names, addresses, phone numbers, and prices at good restaurants we liked. They were recommended by my daughter, who had lived in Italy the previous semester and had eaten in most of them. (Except in Venice, where we were at the mercy of guide books and our hotel's recommendations, etc.)

I'm not good at this, but I'll try to post my thread links here:
For Rome
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34813272

For Florence
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34813784

For Venice
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34814606

One thing to note, especially since you have two teens along, is that restaurants virtually close down between 3 pm and 7 pm. So, if you want to eat between those hours, you might pay a lot if you can find a tourist joint open. So be aware and stock up on snacks prior to that time-frame.

For the most part, except the special restaurants I note in my reports, we did not have restaurant reservations. I think you'll do fine without them. Have fun!

I find dining out at home fairly expensive. $80 would not buy me much even for two people. Our wine prices are a killer here in Canada. You can only expect house wine at $28-30 a bottle and go up from there.

On my last business trip to Orlando, Florida I found the food terrible. It seems that some restaurants get quantity and quality mixed up. Entrees averaged $12-19 at most places. I know Orlando is a tourist trap so you would not expect any different.

I have been to many touristy places in Europe and find the food quality and prices to be in line with what I would expect to pay for a meal at home. The Euro has increased prices but the price of everything at home has gone up as well.

On my trip to Tuscany and Umbria in May...Tuscany won out on best meals. I had a pasta in Spello, Umbria that was covered in can peas...yuck.

Overall, I have had more good meals than bad in Italy.

I usually stick to the Trattoria type establishments and stay away from formula menus. Eat where the locals eat. If the restaurant looks empty, move on.

In Florence, I'd also recommend Yellow Bar on Via del Proconsolo. Although it's a touristy area and lots of tourists in the restaurant, the food was excellent. House made pastas were really good. Fun atmosphere for your teens, too. They do not take reservations and open at 8pm.
In Venice, I had two really delicious dinners at Restaurant Giorgione which is actually next door to the hotel of the same name in Cannareggio (very close to Strada Nuova at the Ca'd'Oro vap stop). Their linguine con vongle (clams) was made with fresh ginger! a revelation. A warning - in Italy certain foods (fin fish, steak) are charged per "etto" which is 100 grams (I think)so the price on the menu may not be the ultimate cost depending on how many ettos it weighs.

I took my first trip to Italy in March of this year. I have to admit that I too was a little diappointed with some of the meals I had while in Italy. I think that there is a tremendous amount of hype regarding the food in Italy and I'm sure that was part of the disappointment for me. I found that not every trattoria or restaurant serves the freshest ingredients and that was a surprise to me. But that wasn't the norm. I also had some fantastic meals. Perhaps because I come from an Italian family that was in the restaurant business and is very into cooking I may be a little harder to please. I'm not a Foodie, I'm just used to a more simple way of Italian cooking that lets the flavors of the food come out instead of adding a lot of seasonings. So what I consider very good food is only my taste. With that said, I don't think that "winging it" with your restaurant picks is a great idea if food is important to you.

Here is what I would do if you want to increase your odds of having good meals:
Find a restaurant or two in the areas that you know you will be at during the day and will be eating lunch near (i.e. the Vatican, Colosseum) and several places for dinner near your hotel. Do a search on this site to see which ones have been highly recommended. There are several people on this site that have compiled excellent restaurant and trattoria lists (compare what people have to say and see which ones seem to appeal to you). Make sure you know the addresses and keep the list in your purse/pocket with a detailed map!!!!!!! I thought that it would be easier than it was to ask for directions to trattorias on my list (mostly a problem in Rome). This led to a lot of extra walking and getting lost.

I made the mistake of "winging it" for lunch near the Vatican (not the place to not have a recommendation) and had the worst lunch of my life! I never knew it was possible for pizza to be that bad But we were hungry and in a hurry, so there you go.

Overall, the best meals I had were at the places recommended on this site (even better than the hotel recs).

Missypie - I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, where we pay more for EVERYTHING. It sure would be nice to have Texas prices here!!

css- have a great time with your family.

CVerga, you'd die if you knew how little I paid for my 2300 square foot, 4 bedroom, 2 1/2 bath house. Low prices are our reward for being willing to live where it is flat, landlocked and brown.

I think the mediocre-to-bad meals that we had in Italy were mostly at our hotels, once with a half pension hotel and twice when we were too lazy, too unimaginative, or too tired to go elsewhere.

When we made any kind of effort to find recommended restaurants, the food was good, but I'd certainly never wax enthusiastic over Italian food.