Heidi

I was told that gas prices in Germay currently are equating to about US $8/gal. Can anyone confirm that? <BR> <BR>Also, with four adults traveling together for two weeks to Germany, Austria, Paris and maybe Switzerland, would renting a car (with the gas as expensive) still be a better deal than buying train tickets. I hear they are very expensive too.

Jochen

<BR>Heidi, <BR> <BR>it's not that bad. Currently, one liter of standard gas costs slighly less than the equivalent of 1 USD. Since a gallon makes roughly four liters, you'll end up with about 4 USD per gallon. Gas prices in Austria are about the same as in Germany. France is more expensive, Switzerland is, surprisingly, cheaper. <BR> <BR>With four adults, renting a car might be cheaper than buying regular train tickets. However, each country has special low price tickets. For Germany, go to http://bahn.de and click on "International Guests" to see what is possible. <BR> <BR>Hope that helps. <BR> <BR>Regards, Jochen

maggi

We have traveled extensively in Germany and we always rent a car. I admit filling the tank does give you sticker shock, but it is offset by buying train tickets, especially for four people. I enjoy the freedom of stopping when and where we want. Parking in cities can be a problem, but we park at the hotel and use mass transit when in the city. Driving on the Autobahn worries some people, but we have never had a problem. There are some stringent rules about passing: you can never pass on the right, ever. The right lane is the slowest, left lane is for speeders. Never drive in the left lane except to pass - you will get run off the road by all those Mercedes's! The Autobahn is great, easy to find where you're going, and fabulous cheap food at the numerous rest areas.

Russ

Driving in Europe is alright, and it's relatively simple in Germany, but trains have many advantages that usually get lost in the discussion once price comes up. They can also be cheaper, even for four adults, depending on how you plan your trip. <BR> <BR>As someone who has travelled by both car and train, I often wonder whether those who push cars have even tried the train. <BR>You are driving some long distances, and 4 adults cooped up in a little car-box can be uncomfortable. You will have to negotiate when to leave, what route to take, and where to stop for potty/food breaks. You'll need to navigate unfamiliar territory in a language you're probably not too familiar with, deal with parking, traffic, tolls, and unfamiliar local driving habits. One of you will, of course, have to drive. <BR> <BR>With the train, about the only work you have to do is buy a ticket. You'll enjoy the asphalt-free scenery without worrying about missing a turnoff, you'll socialize face-to-face with your travel companions and others on the train, you'll get up and wander if you get stiff, and you'll spread out a picnic lunch at your train table or slip down to the cafe car for some refreshments. You'll arrive right in the middle of your destination city, and you'll probably feel a lot more like you're on a vacation than like you're back home, commuting on the expressway. <BR> <BR>Departures are usually so frequent that convenience is really a minor issue. <BR> <BR>It's hard to say what the train will cost not knowing your route. In two weeks, I imagine you're looking at maybe 3-4 days in Paris, 6 days in Germany, and 3 days in Austria/Switz. I'll assume a "typical" journey across southern Germany. For tickets, figure about $45 each from Paris to Germany's border at Saarbrücken; about $85 from there to Munich with a stop on the Rhine (via Mainz?) For short daytrips from Mainz and Munich to the Rhine castles, to Salzburg (in Austria, but opn the border,) to the Alps, or to small towns nearby, all 4 of you could travel on one daypass good for up to 5 people ($14-$18 for all per day) on the regional trains, so if you did 4 days of daytrips, add a whopping $16 or so to your other tickets, bringing your total per person to about $146. Add on whatever you'd need for Austria travel. Fly into Paris and out of Munich (or vice-versa) to minimize your ground expenses. <BR> <BR>If you're travelling north to Berlin, Hamburg, or ???, or criss-crossing Germany because of your flights, consider getting a GermanRail pass (4-days unlimited travel, $130 each on twin-flexipasses) to avoid high ticket prices. <BR> <BR>Hope this helps. You can e-mail me if you want any specific help with this or have questions. <BR> <BR>Russ <BR> <BR>

Patrick

I have traveled extensively in Germany and other countries by both train and by car (usually only two of us, however). If mainly doing big cities, then the train has the clear advantage as it will take you to the heart of the cities and you won't have to deal with the traffic and parking problems. On the other hand if you are mainly visiting the countryside and smaller towns the car has a distinct advantage. A couple of things to consider: <BR>1) although the cost of fuel is high, I am used to getting 12 miles to the gallon at home, I usually get a diesal or turbo diesal car in Germany and average something like 40-50 miles per gallon, so the fuel price averages out. <BR>2) We seldom have a hotel near a train station, so adding to the cost of the train is a taxi ride to and from the hotel and the train station especially to handle luggage. With four people and luggage you are likely to need two taxis each way, so think about that when you are price comparing. Of course if you are in a city for three or four days, that only counts once, but if you are doing a lot of overnight stops, those prices add up quickly. <BR>3) I have usually found that we spend very close to the same money with train as we do with car; I keep a very accurate expense journal. That is with either a train pass or discounted tickets (although, we generally do 1st class tickets on the train), so I would imagine that with four people instead of two, the savings of using a car would be considerable. This again factors in the variables: parking costs, fuel, tolls, and car rental, as opposed to train tickets and taxis.

Jim

Heidi, <BR>Go to: http://www.theaa.co.uk/motoringandtr.../motfue001.asp <BR>You will find the current gas/diesel prices for the countries in Europe.You will see that diesel is much cheaper.

Russ

Patrick is correct about the taxi issue -- it can become expensive if you have to use one. If you use the train, you need to plan a bit to avoid this expense. I've made over 10 trips to Europe, several with my wife and daughter, without ever using even one taxi. See Rick Steves' packing tips and you should be okay if you're in reasonably good shape. Don't pack more than you can comfortably carry. You don't need it. If you pack so much that you need 2 taxis, you've seriously botched things. You could rent two cars, too, if you want to tote around that much stuff! Book places within a half mile or so of the station (this is seldom a problem in small towns, which are often no bigger than a mile across.) In small towns, it's common practice for lots of B&B owners, especially those a bit further from the station, to drive down to the station to give you a lift if they know when you'll be there. <BR>Generally, I disagree that small towns require a car. There are thousands of small German towns that are worth visiting and that are connected by rail. Along the Rhine and Mosel, even a teeny place like St. Goar has a station and 1-2 trains that stop there every hour. Just check your itinerary against the DB website (www.bahn.de) to make sure you can reach the towns you want to see by train. If not, the same site will also indicate bus connections, usually timed to coincide with train arrivals. But like I said, you're unlikely to pick a place to stay that doesn't have a station. In Germany, about the only time I would want a car would be to explore the alps and Voralpen areas, and then only if travelling from east to west a substantial distance; most train lines run north-south here. But if you're daytripping from Munich, the train connections are usually excellent. <BR> <BR>