The book is titled, Learn to Speak French in 10 Minutes a Day (or something like that). So, in anticipation of a trip to Paris this fall, I'm trying.

Then, from the "Where were you when you were yelled at" thread, I read, "Paris..when I would speak French asking for goods or services. Having a reasonable accent and little command of the language, I would be yelled at when I stared blankly at the Parisians asking for more specifics (like so you want oeufs..do you want ham with that?)"

I can imagine it now. Do I need new reading material?

The problem with speaking just a few phrases of any language, and speaking them fairly well, is that you will elicit a response in that language, which will then be incomprehensible to you. Learn to say the basics like good day, please, thank you, and where's the toilet, or learn to speak well enough to understand the reply. Everything in between may very well get you yelled at.

Maybe it's just my terrible accent, but I find that French people can tell that English is my first language, and will be sympathetic to that, speaking more slowly etc.

There are a few times that I've been yelled at but it's never spoilt my day.(The most memorable was when I asked for 'une bouteille d'eau minerale' and the lady claimed not to understand for at least three repetitions despite me pointing at the evian too. I'd been pronouncing it 'boo - tay' and eventually with heavy sarcasm she said 'Ah, une 'boo-tie'' and sold us the water. Despite my mistake I really don't believe that she couldn't understand me (the d'eau minerale and the pointing was surely enough information to work out what I wanted), she just seemed to like humiliating tourists.)

What usually happens when I speak in french is that the person I'm addressing responds in English--makes it hard to practice.

I would strongly suggest getting a copy of Polly Platt's "French or Foe." She tells you just what you need to know to get a pleasant response.

>...Despite my mistake I really don't believe that she couldn't understand me ..<

Au contraire, mon ami(e).

When your ear is well attuned to your own language, mispronounciations can be unintelligble.

For example, here in Georgia we pronounce "Rain Tree" Rhine Tray; change is given in "pinnies" and tomatoes are "maters".

How intelligible is
"I want to the zow and saw a brawn beer"?

I think Marilyn is right. Plus, the book is titled Learn to "Speak" French, not Learn to Understand French. Big difference. Further, even when I was living in France, I was outside Paris, and there are different accents. It was much easier for me to communicate and UNDERSTAND what was being said in the south of France, where people speak slower and I guess what I'd consider more textbook French. I found in Paris I always had to really concentrate, since so much slang was used and all the words were thrown together. For example, je ne said pas became chez pas.

I don't think, even with several years of college French under your belt you're going to be understood or understand all the time everywhere. A book on slang and oral French (i.e. the way it is actually spoken vs. textbook French) might help, but knowing the basics and being able to laugh at yourself is probably the most important tools you could have.

I want to the zow and saw a brawn beer wouldn't even make me stop to think. Maybe here in the UK there's more diversity of accents and dialects in a smaller area, but pronunciation has to be spectacularly odd before I can't at least guess from context what someone is saying.
I think it was comparable to someone who is obviously a foreign tourist going into a food shop and asking for a 'bootle' of mineral water - not exactly difficult to comprehend.

Papagena: the correct pronounciation of "bouteille" IS pretty much "boo-tay," definitely not "boo-tie," so that woman was spoofing you.

Beachbum: learn as much as you can, but don't expect to be able to understand what is being said back to you all the time. That takes years. Don't expect to be yelled at, either. Just make a good effort and you will in most cases be rewarded with kindness and appreciation.

Bonjour Beachbum

"Paris..when I would speak French asking for goods or services. Having a reasonable accent and little command of the language, I would be yelled at when I stared blankly at the Parisians asking for more specifics (like so you want oeufs..do you want ham with that?)"

In such a case, a very useful reply is a big smile and "ouh, la, la, pas si vite !" ;-)

Merci y'all. I'm sure my wife prefers the French to Sports Illustrated anyway.

To reverse the process: When first married, my wife and I went to see a friend of French background in SF. He had a fantastic English vocabulary and was absolutely fluent except for his accent. One day he took us to the ranch of Jacqueline Dunn, who must have been some type of radical, but my wife had never heard of her and couldn't figure out who she was. I had no clue that she had a problem because I knew who he was. Jack London's ranch is a place to be visited. The spoken story is better.

Papagena, I'm saying "boo-tay" to myself to figure out whether a Frenchman should have been able to understand you, and I think although your pronunciation of "bouteille" was not far off, perhaps your having left off the "uh", which is barely pronounced at the end of "boo-TAY-uh," made it harder to understand. Perhaps the waitress was also being rude, correcting a customer in that way.

Thanks, StCirq. When I read papagena's post I found myself saying both pronunciations over and over again, developing severe frown lines. Was my memory that faulty? Because I, too, would have pronounced it "boo-tay(eh)" rather than "boo-tie."

I do think, of all the people in the world, the Parisiens are the most offended by hearing their language mangled, and they don't hesitate to let you know. I once had a hotel desk clerk ask me in English, in a voice dripping with scorn, after I had practiced the sentence for 10 minutes before speaking it, "What eez eet you weesh, madame?" I'm sure he'd be happy to know I still remember this incident after 35 years!

You're not helping me here, Marilyn. I feel caught between offending for not trying to speak the language and offending for butchering it, or not understanding the response.

StCirq's advice fits me best, maybe with a little help from Polly Platt (thank you, Underhill).

beachbum, maybe it will help if I add that on our trip to Paris last year I had a different attitude and just spoke French as best I could. I was met with nothing but kindness and helpfulness, and to my amazement, was actually able to carry on limited conversations. Not one single person was rude or unpleasant. The worst I can report was a certain hauteur on the part of the salesclerks at Laduree.

In my several trips to France, I have generally found people very willing to help with my limited knowledge of their language. In fact, I can think of many times when people went out of their way to help me. The only exception was a rather rude person at an information booth at a railway station. However, even there I was rescued by a French couple who had overheard the exchange, and gave me the assistance I needed. As far as I'm concerned, these generalizations about all French people being rude are nothing but myths.

Papagena wrote "Bootle", not "Bootie". I thought he just mis-spelled "bottle".

Papagena is probably "she," from the character in The Magic Flute.

I have had various waiters/clerks etc either not understand my French or correct me or simply wanting to speak in English, even without asking if that's okay. The woman was just being rude, no doubt. I'm sure she understood perfectly well.

I have an American accent, of course, no one would mistake me for a Frenchwoman, but I have had some French persons ask if I was British. It is surprising how I can be in France and have 80 pct understand me perfectly well, and even converse with me, and then have some clerk or waiter claim they don't when I need help or want something they don't want to give or do. They are nicer almost anywhere than Paris, in that regard.

I'm not saying that all people you are likely to encounter as a tourist are like that, most are not, but there is definitely a subgroup who do. It isn't because they are "offended" by someone pronouncing something not quite they way they do, I think it's because they like to put you down and that it makes them feel important. I think it's like a game to them. I encounter foreigners in my home city who can't speak English that well or certainly have a pronounced accent (including French), and I don't do that to them.

However, I have never been yelled at regarding pronunciation and think they may have been a slight exaggeration.

I think it's fine to learn please, thank you, etc., but you won't learn to converse in 10 min a day or understand the language very well. Since you have until Fall, you might want to spend more than 10 min a day. Actually, I think longer and more concentrated study, even if not every day, would work better (ie, 30-60 min).

Oops, I thought Papa > he. Underhill thanks for enlightning me!