Valerie Giscard d'Estang was President of France and also a noble and was criticized for using 'vous' with his kids.

The Socialist President of France, François Mitterand, was once asked by one of the party faithful, "Je peux te tutotoyer?" to which he is said to have responded, "Si vous voulez".

It is not recorded whether he used "vous" with his children, legitimate or illegitimate.

PatrickLondon wrote "It might be Sunday morning, but it's a bit early to get into the metaphysics of theology."

It's more theeology than theology; Nikki was making a grammar point.

The Irish language has singular and plural second person pronouns and no tradition of the respectful plural. That creates a small complication in Hiberno-English, where "thee" and "thou" have fallen out of use. In carrying over our Irish language mindset, we often use "you" as a singular and "yous", "yiz" or "ye" as a plural.

Back to French: I recently re-established contact with a French female correspondent with whom I last exchanged letters when we were in our teens 48 years ago (thanks to Google). My opening email was "Vous etes la meme .... ?" (with the proper accents, which I can find on my home computer). She responded using "tu": the passage of time, careers, marriages, retirement - none of these seems to have altered the choice of pronoun.

>>Nikki was making a grammar point.<<

I know, but is God the subject or object of a prayer (if you're a believer)?

I know, but is God the subject or object of a prayer (if you're a believer)?>

Easy since God can be everything God can both be a subject of and object of prayer - that is IF there were a God and since there is not it is irrelevant - like if a tree falls in a forest and there is no one around to hear it does it make any noise?

Can God make a tree he cannot lift, etc.

I always thought that the Christian god is "thee-ed" and "thou-ed" and thy-ed" because God is supposedly a single entity? If god were multiple, then wouldn't they be "ye-ed"?

To give one example (lovely hymn by the way):

<i>Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art.</i>

But I assume it was a slip of the virtual pen and kerouac meant to say God gets thee'd rather than you'd.

Here's a pretty good basic overview of the different forms and uses of thee etc.
http://cummingsstudyguides.net/xThou.html

I am astounded with the obsession with the proper use of tu and vous in France...It has become a convoluted super post. Keep it simple: with adults you don't know use Vous. With children use Tu. There is no mystery to it.

>>Nikki was making a grammar point.<<

Patrick got it. I got that he got it. I've been pondering his point since yesterday. It's a day for me to do that.

Easy since God can be everything God can both be a subject of and object of prayer - that is IF there were a God and since there is not it is irrelevant - like if a tree falls in a forest and there is no one around to hear it does it make any noise?>>

we have a saying in our house about god - omnipotent, omniscient, and omnivorous.

or something like that.

I don't know about god, but I am getting tu'ed more and more by young sales people working in trendy clothing stores for teens. Never offends me, but Mlle French didn't like it one bit this weekend in Deauville, and she's only 30.

Phread: Interesting that you are going shopping with your daughter (or is it granddaughter?).

Why you need to know this stuff. Just had a call from a friend, asking 'si vous pouvez venir chez nous' An invitation to lunch to which I responded, 'avec plaisir,' and then realised that these are very good friends, whom we tutoyer all the time - she was inviting both of us, and obviously hadn't realised that my husband was still away. So luckily I thought to point out that it would indeed be just me, and even better, the invitation was still good.

So, sometimes 'vous' does mean two of you!

voulez vous couchez avec moi! Why not tu here like toulez tu avec moi?

<i>Why not tu here like toulez tu avec moi?</i>

Because the phrase probably comes out of GI French where the <i>vous</i> form was undoubtedly emphasized for the few phrases that a soldier might learn. A native speaker would never use this phrase, whether in the polite or the familiar form; unless it is a prostitute soliciting, in which case she would use the familiar form.

What's " toulez tu " ?

Good question, kappa. Must be what Pal's "French son" uses. An actual French person would use veux-tu, but as Michael points out, this is fictional French out of a GI handbook anyway.

<i>What's " toulez tu " ?</i>

fractured French.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...oi%20ce%20soir

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irjbAudhIYc

what's touez-tous - satire!