How would a French person pronounce "Veuve Cliquot" and "Taittenger"? I'm sure that "veuve" is like "peuple" and "aveugle", but my friend pronounces it voo-ehve. And I say "TATE-en-ZHAY", while she says it "TAT-in-jer". Of the two of us, I have more experience with French, but she looks at me pointedly each time she says them as if to correct me and it's started to drive me slowly insane. Any help, please?

I feel sure that you are right about Veuve. And I am not sure about Taittenger. There are personal names that carry over a pronunciation from some other country, if that family immigrated into France. But either way, I think it would be TET - - and I have a hunch that TET-in-jer actually is right. <BR> <BR>Best wishes, <BR> <BR>Rex <BR>

You're right with Veuve I believe. I'm not sure about TaittEnger, but I've always pronouced Taittinger as TAYHT-een-gher. I'd believe the jer, though. <BR> <BR>Wine Spectator gives us "vuhv" . Can't find a citation for Taittinger. <BR> <BR>Where's a good French-speaker when you need them?

St. Cirque must be sleeping in!

Veuve is definitely to rhyme with peuple and i think vuhv is a reasonable way to try and give roughly the right sound... It's a longer vowel than vuhv suggests. <BR> <BR>I think your friend is pronouncing it as though it were vueve? Or has heard someone she thinks of as knowledgeable and is pronouncing it to copy them? <BR> <BR>Not sure about Taittenger as I think this is one of the exceptions - I dont think it is pronounced as it would be if you just read it as a normal french word. <BR> <BR>

Vuhv Kleekoe. Tett-on-zhay, if you want to have pure, traditional French accent but you can get away with some Brit-overtones on this one (tett-an-zher) in some circules. <BR> <BR>Tell your friend to take 2 courses: one in French and one in manners.

Veuve itself IS a French word and the champagne is pronounced just like that normal French word which you can look up in your French dictionary (last word normal rules, klee KOH. Your friend may be copying someone else who can't pronounce French, that's common particularly with vowels like this. For example, I went out with a guy who was trying to impress me with how worldly he was and how much more he knew about everything than I did, including Paris and French, because he'd lived in France a bit, did business over there, and had a French wife (emphasis on EX-wife), so he orders a wine at this French bistro and pronounced beaujolais as BOO-joe-lay!!! I think that's practically illiterate if you've lived in France, speak French to some degree, have studied it, and don't know basic pronunciation rules for vowel combinations. You friend would probably say BOO.... also from her pronunciation of VOOehve. I'm no big champagne lover so I'm not sure about Taittinger (note the correct spelling which makes your pronunciation wrong to some degree just for that reason, at least the middle syllable--I might quibble and say the first syllable isn't quite that long an a as in TATE because it's not an open final syllable (ie, not like the month of mai), but that's closer than the flat "a" as in TAT. I myself would pronounce that syllable similar to the vowel in the French word lait which may be the same as you mean by TATE. That is a French family from way back (hundreds of years), so I would presume the normal French pronuncation rules which would make all the "jers" wrong. However, that is a funny surname, it just doesn't look real French to me (but could be), so I'm not sure. That family is very rich and owns the Concorde hotel group, including the Crillon, as well as a winery in the US, so if you really want to know, I'll bet you could call up the PR office or customer info or something of Domaine Carneros whatever they are in the US in California. Here is a good bonus question, how does your friend pronounce Moët et Chandon? MOO-ay? If so, that's wrong, but a lot of people mispronounce that (I even heard the guy on the radio program Savvy Traveler, Rudy Maxa, pronounce that wrong once) get that wrong, especially if you don't know French well and ignore the trema which is a clue even if you don't know the "t" is pronounced. That name is from a Dutch family background apparently, so the last syllable is pronounced "et" not ay.

I've studied french for about 12 years now and have a degree in it (for whatever that's worth..lol). I would pronounce veuve, as you have stated. I would pronounce 'Taittenger', as tay-tahn-jay(tait-ten-ger) with no r sound and the end. (looks similar to what you were saying) YOu would not ever say 'tet' as Rex suggested when you have 'Tait' in the word. French usually sticks to its rules as far as pronunciation goes so when you see the 'ai', its usually 'ay' e.g. J'ai, jamais, pais, ecoutais, attendais etc. Hope that settles your debate.

When I was a junior at Dartmouth, I worked as a waiter in a French restaurant in Philadelphia one summer. We always said VOVAY KLEE-KOE and TAT-IN-JAY, but I have heard other waiters in French restaurants pronounce the latter as TAT-IN-JER. It is probably the same as "Louvre." I have heard my French friend say LOU-VRA, while I have heard other French citizens say LOUV.

"Veuve" - no problem. It is pronounced as Andrea and several others have suggested. "Vuhv" is pretty close, voo-ehve - definitely wrong, VOVAY!? - NO WAY! <BR> "Taittinger" poses a bit more of a problem. The family originally came from Lorraine so I suspect some Germanic roots there. "The Taittinger family had its roots in Lorraine, but left its native province in 1870 following the Treaty of Frankfurt and settled in the Paris area in order to retain its French nationality." (from www.taittinger.com ) The pronunciation of the name, however, is French. To be sure I checked with a native French speaker over on the bonjourparis message board. According to Christophe, it is pronounced tai - (rimes with mai, lait, the more open e sound); tin - (rimes with vin, main) je (with an acute accent, as in the last syllable of manger). Now, having said that, I'll bet you can find other native speakers who would pronounce it slightly differently. <BR> <BR>

Well, kel - - nothing sends me back to the books faster than someone calling me wrong. <BR> <BR>"ait" is a very UNcommon combination of letters in French - - in the MIDDLE of a word - - and in well known words, such as maître or connaître, there is a circonflex over the "i". Purists will say that this distinguishes the diphthong "aî" from the sound in "lettre" or "mètre" or "être". I'm not sure I "get" this difference. <BR> <BR>But it is not at all like the sound in "voudrait" or "plaît" (are these different because of the circonflex?) - - despite the tendency for Americans to say "MAY-ter DEE" or "MAY-truh-DEE" - - it is neither. It is "MET-truh-DEE". <BR> <BR>There are several words that begin with the letter "L" which do have "ait" in the middle without a circonflex - - "laiterie" (dairy) and "laitue" (lettuce), for example - - and both of these have the exact same sound as in "lettre" - - namely an "eh" sound. Neither has the same sound as "lait". <BR> <BR>I still don't know how the Taittinger family (or company) pronounces the name - - but it seems as likely to me as not that it starts with TET. <BR> <BR>Oh, and by the way, you, I, Andrea and others misspelled the name - - it has only one "e" - - as their website - - http://www.taittinger.com/introhtml.html- - attests. <BR> <BR>Pedantically yours... <BR>

StCirq was indeed sleeping in today, and attending soccer games and doing laundry. <BR> <BR>Veuve is pronounced like "neuh" ( between "nuh" and "new") plus the "v" which makes it "neuv" Clee-ko. <BR>Tet - ahn - jay (soft "j") <BR> <BR>Transliteration is a terrbly frustrating thing. Youreally need to hear it.

Isn't it funny that Betty is such a know-it-all when it comes to French even though she doesn't speak it. She gets all of her knowledge by asking someone on some message board. Betty probably couldn't even pronounce anything on the tasting menu at Lespinasse. There is a French word that comes to mind when I think of Betty; it is dilettante. Can you pronounce that, Betty? You say it like this:AMA-TURE! Au revoir, John G. <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>

Umm...John G, Betty is a former French teacher, I believe, who adds considerable information to this board in a most gracious manner. That is much, much more than I can say for you.

My goodness, John, why so cutting? Just because I pointed out that “VOVAY” was no where near the correct pronuciation of “veuve”? Si la vérité vous intéresse, j’ai un M. A. en français de Middlebury Collège et j’ai enseigné le français pendant plus de trente ans, y compris un cours de AP French. J’ai passé deux années scolaires en France et j’y ai fait au moins une douzaine d’autres voyages pendant lesquels on m’a quelquefois prise pour une Française. Alors je pense savoir un peu mieux que vous comment on prononce les mots français. If you didn’t understand all that, I’m sorry. But that rather proves my point, too, doesn’t it? <BR> <BR>To Rex et al, the difference between the é sound (somewhat like “ay” but shorter and without the diphthong) and the è sound (more like “eh”) is a difficult one for Americans to make and to hear. The “ai” spelling in French is most often “è”, especially if in a syllable that ends with a consonant. Mettre, mètre, maître are all homonyms. If it is at the end of a syllable it is more often “é”, but not always. Mai, mais and met are also all pronounced alike. As a future tense ending it is supposed to be pronounced “é” as in “je parlerai”, whereas the conditional “je parlerais” has the “è” sound. But in practice I don’t think the French are very careful about this distinction. Context suffices to make the difference. As for those “l” words, lait and laiterie both contain the “è” sound but laitier and laitue should be pronounced with the “é” sound since the t belongs with the second syllable. Frankly, if confusing the “é” and the “è” sounds is the worst mistake an American makes in speaking French, he will be doing very well indeed. And you thought YOU were pedantic, Rex! <BR>

Betty, pour un français de souche qui se targue de parler correctement sa langue, la différence de prononciation entre Mai, mais et met, lait, laitue et laitier, est très nette, quoique très subtile. Vous avez toutefois raison, la majorité des locuteurs ne se donne pas la peine de différencier ces sons dans le parler de tous les jours, et personne n'attend d'un étranger (Américain ou autre) qu'il soit capable de prononcer correctement ces sons. <BR> <BR>Veuve sounds like "peuple" or "aveugle", it means "widow" and you should find its pronounciation in any dictionary with the international phonetic signs. <BR> <BR>Taittinger is originally German or Alsacian, and should be pronounced "Tate-in-gher", but we "French" (francise) it as "Tate-en-jay", like we do with Bofinger "Boh-fen-jay" (I wish there was sound on this forum ...) <BR> <BR>

Je vous remercie de cette reponse. I'll switch to English so that all may understand. We are in agreement on all points except one. According to my Petit Robert, which gives phonetic pronunciations, mai, mais, and met are all pronounced exactly alike. In fact under the word mai, they give as homonyms Maie (don't know this one, is it a city?), mais, mets, Maye (another city?) and formes du v. mettre. Do you think this is a mistake? <BR>BTW, does anyone know how we could find international phonetic symbols to use here or in Word? I had to do my last reply in Word and then paste it here in order to have even the accent marks. Could not find International Phonetic Alphabet anywhere (except to purchase). <BR>xxx, thanks for defending me. I feel as though I've been "baptized" now that I have been "flamed" (that is the term, isn't it?)on this board for the first time.

Betty, keep in mind that most of us think John G. made an utter jackass of himself -- first for suggesting that the pronunciation of college students waiting tables in Philadelphia might be in any way definitive, second for making such a basic error as adding an imaginary accented second syllable to "Veuve" (never mind converting "veu-" to "voo-"), and third for attacking you so clumsily once he'd been shown up to be far from correct. Not sure he ever made it out of sophomore year.... <BR> <BR>Reminds me of the time I was in a restaurant, ordering chablis, and a waiter kept repeating my order saying "chabliss" pointedly, as if I needed badly to be schooled in pronunciation. No tip there, either. <BR> <BR>Thanks, Betty.

Betty: <BR> <BR>Re accent: <BR> <BR>If you're using a Windows machine (probably W95 or more recent) you can install the <BR>United States-International Keyboard through the <BR>Control Panel/Keyboard/Language facility. It's a tad clumsy to use, but much more convenient than any alternative of which I know. <BR> <BR>John, of course, should be ignored. So many good people on here, but just like on the shoulder of any highway, one find a bit of trash also.

Thanks, all. I feel SO much better about Veuve Cliquot. I only have a pocket dictionary & veuve isn't in it. Honestly, we have VC every time we have dinner with this couple, and EVERY time, she's sure to come up with a sentence or two in which she has to say "VOO-ehve" as though she's trying to teach by example. "Fronk", I'll look into the manners class. And I'll continue to mumble Taittinger.