julianafoster7038

Hello everyone,

My husband and I are new to this forum. We are excitedly planning our long awaited honeymoon to France (we had to postpone our wedding and trip last year due to COVID).

We are have booked our flights for September 11-18. So far, our itinerary is:

September 11:
Arrive in Paris at 8:10am, take train to Annecy. Arrive around 4:30pm.
Stay in Annecy

September 12:
Visit Massif des Bauges and Charteuse Mountains
Stay in Annecy

September 13:
Visit Chamonix/Mount Blanc
Stay in Annecy

September 14:
Depart Annecy, take train to Avignon. Arrive around 3:50pm.
Stay in Avignon

September 15:
Take rental car from Avignon to Arles
Visit Arles and Camurage
Drive to Saint Tropez in afternoon
Stay in Saint Tropez

September 16:
Spend half day in Saint Tropez
Drive to St Paul de Vence in afternoon
Stay in St Paul de Vence

September 17:
Drive back to Avignon in afternoon
Take train to Paris. Arrive around 5:21pm.

September 18:
Fly to Croatia for second leg of trip, leaving at 12:05pm

We will be staying in Split, Hvar and Dubrovnik for the second week of our trip. Luckily, we were able to solidify our plans here a little bit more.. so are mainly looking for suggestions on our France leg.

My question is.. are we trying to do too much at once? Is there anything you would recommend removing or rearranging about our trip? We are open to any suggestions.

Thank you so much for all of your help!

Best regards,
Juliana Foster

AJPeabody

Welcome to Fodors.

It looks like your itinerary starts to go sideways (not in a good way) Sept 14. You seem to use Avignon as a bedroom, no sightseeing. That's odd. Then Sept 15 is not practical unless your idea of touring is saying "I was there" without actually seeing a place. It also looks like you rent two different cars and take several trains in only a few days.

What are your goals and interests? Hiking? Photography? Culture? Museums? Food? Hotels and railway stations? Have you looked at guidebooks or online information? Why have you picked the places you list?

The posters on this site are always eager to help people adjust and refine their plans. Give us something to work with and get plenty of often useful advice.

julianafoster7038

I completely agree with you. That is the section of our trip where we both feel a bit lost.

We are renting one car for our time in the Alps, and will be renting another car once we arrive in the Provence region.

We love hiking, culture and food. As we were mainly planning to hike in Chamonix, we were looking for something different by visiting Provence/Saint Tropez/St Paul de Vence. In this leg, we were really hoping to explore cities/culture and see the beautiful views in the South of France we have read about. We have read guidebooks and searched online, but are truly quite stuck as they all seem to be absolutely amazing. I guess the good part here is we probably can't go 'wrong' with whatever we choose.

Have you been to the latter three areas of France? Is there one or two that really sticks out to you?

I am a big animal lover which I why I selected Camargue for Wednesday. The thought of seeing wild horses was so exciting to me! I have tried to research if this is something that is worth it (i.e. is this like a dolphin tour where you don't always see the horses? Is it as spectacular as I imagine it to be?)

Thank you again in advance for all your help. We truly appreciate it so much!

bilboburgler

ChartReuse Mountains had me fooled for a second, then "Camargue"

I think you are rushing the Camargue and I suggest St Tropez is a waste of time. I'd try to do less and enjoy more but if you love running from sight to sight then fine. Use the money saved on the St Tropez visit to hire a tour guide for the Camargue as otherwise it might be a waste of time.

tomboy

You might consider using google.maps or viamichelin.com to get an idea of drive times.
Avignon to Arles to the Camarague in one morning.....whew!!! consider watching videos of the same: you'd see more, and use less gas

Then there's 'spend the morning in St Paul de Vence, have lunch, then drive to Avignon to catch the train that arrives in Paris at 5:21...... as I recall the train's about a 3 hour + ride, and it's more than 2 hours from Vence to Avignon.

apersuader65

A whole lot of travel time and not a lot of vacation/seeing the sites. First day is all travel. Then the 14th is all travel. Then the 15 and 16 are 1/2 day travel and the 17th is all travel. Thats four days of travel of a total of 7 days in france.

julianafoster7038

Hi everyone,

We do realize this is too much. If we didn't, we wouldn't have posted on this forum asking for help.

Do you have any recommendations on where to cut down?

I fully understand the criticisms, but am just looking for some guidance..

julianafoster7038

Whew. Thank you so much for providing a recommendation. I really, really appreciate it.

As for the spelling errors, I apologize. I was typing this message at midnight and had been wedding planning for hours.

My brain is a bit scrambled at this point so I appreciate all the assistance I can get.

As far as Camargue, is this something you really enjoyed? Were you able to get a glimpse of the wild horses? (this was the main reason it peaked our interest)

laurie_ann

I would stay the three nights in Avignon (or another town in Provence) and plan to do day trips. Then you have more flexibility to do on any given day based on what you feel like, what the weather is, etc. and less fixed itinerary based on where you will have reserved to sleep each of those three nights in a different place. For example based on rome2rio.com from Avignon to the Camargue is only a one hour drive, Aix-en-Provence only 45 minute drive, the hilltown of Gordes only 45 minute drive etc. Even if those times are underestimated and are really twice as long, any would still be a reasonable day trip.

bilboburgler

Don't worry my spelling is terrible I just thought it was worth getting right as these are foreign places and you might have meant somewhere else.

https://about-france.com/tourism/camargue.htm is not a bad little site. I admit that the idea you can ride the wild horses is so much BS. I might look into the bull-fighting which is nothing like the monstrous bull-fighting of Spain.

https://www.getyourguide.co.uk/arles...ivate-t221223/ might be interesting

AJPeabody

I think you are getting the idea: Base and daytrips rather than daily re-basing. In the general south of France area, a base could include any one of the following: Avignon, Aix-en-Provence, Marseilles, St. Remy, or Nice. You should also consider finding a way to Croatia without returning to Paris, gaining a day for vacation.

Christina

I'd cut out St Tropez. To be honest, I'd cut out St Tropez and St Paul de Vence. I'd concentrate on Avignon, Arles, Luberon, etc. Might cut out Camargue.

I really like Avignon but since it's a decent sized city, I personally wouldn't choose it for a base with a car. you could do day trips by train, easily, to Arles, but that might not be the experience you want. Now Avignon isn't really all that bad with a car for visiting as a day trip, as you just kind of drive along the river road and go into the underground parking garage under the main square. So it's actually fairly easy for that. If you were staying in a hotel there, you'd want one more on the outskirts of it I think.

I think you should cut the riviera, and maybe stay in some smaller town closer to Avignon/Luberon and then maybe do car day trips from there. When I go there with a car, I have a wonderful country hotel I stay at near Pernes-les-Fontaines. I've done day trips to Avignon from there, Gordes, etc. I would not do a day trip by car to Arles from there as it's so easy by train. but you probalby could.

I also would not go back to Paris just to fly to Croatia. There are plenty of flights from southern France, I'm sure (like from MRS). My favorite budget airline within Europe is Easyjet and they do have flights from France to Split or Pula. They have flights to Split from LYS (lyon), which is easier than going all the way back to Paris in several ways, including the airport).

https://www.easyjet.com/en/routemap

I hope you realize how hot it may be at that time. If you have to do the Camargue, you could maybe stay in some town west of the river (like maybe Nimes) with a car.

Michael

Check with autoeeurope.com for rental rates. It might be more convenient to drive to the Provence rather than turning the car in and taking the train. The longer rental might reduce the daily rate on the rental.

From Annecy there are several options to get to the Provence. You could drive to Briançon and then follow the Durance river to the Provence, or continue through the Alpes Maritimes to Menton and when you reach the sea, turn right to get to the Provence.

https://flic.kr/p/279HKws
https://flic.kr/p/29PPV8S
While in Annecy, visit the Col de la Forclaz, and if you feel adventurous, take a ride with an instructor on a paraglider.

https://flic.kr/p/8pww7R

geetika

Congratulations on your upcoming wedding and honeymoon!

As the others say, you could base in St Remy or Nimes, which is closer to the Camargue. Parking, etc will be much easier, also getting in and out of town. Many hotels have on site parking, either free, or at a nominal charge, check when booking.

In June 2018 we spent two weeks in the Luberon east of Avignon and drove to several of the towns and villages in the area. We spent a couple of hours visiting the Pope’s Palace, then wandered around the old town and walked to the unfinished bridge or Pont d’Avignon. It made for an interesting day trip, we parked at a garage near the town walls.

The Camargue is another lovely region, though I won’t bank too much on seeing wild horses. There are several stables though where you can ride if so inclined. I’d definitely spend some time at Aigues Mortes, have lunch in the old town square maybe.

Gordes and the hilltop villages are also stunning, as is Nimes with its Roman amphitheater. St Remy also has a lot of Roman ruins, plus of course the asylum where the Vincent Van Gogh admitted himself for his mental illness. Many of his famous landscapes were painted there and there’s a short walk which follows the vistas he brought alive on canvas. A visit to the asylum and tiny room where he was interned is very moving, especially if you’re an art lover.

You might want to get a couple of guide books and read a bit about Provence. Remember driving times are longer than what you’d imagine, given the winding country roads!

tomboy

What attracted you to the Annecy area? the mountains? the villages? something else?
Likewise, the St Tropez area? the beach? the sea? something else?
Have you looked at any travel books on France...Fodors? Frommers? other?

artsnletters

I agree with the others about skipping the Riviera and sticking with Provence.

I was in the Camargue for three days and I didn't see any wild horses. There are stables everywhere with white horses (which the wild ones are too) that you can rent for a ride, and I would guess that you are likeliest to see wild horses if you go riding. But I didn't see any when I did that either. Riding is fun, if you like to ride, but I saw better landscapes driving around there. Aigues Mortes is worth a stop - a walled crusader town.

I would not miss the Luberon, if you like great scenery. You could easily hike there, too. Lovely landscapes and charming little villages.

Also check out Les Baux de Provence. Cute if very touristy hillside town, ruined castles on the top of the hill, and unbelievable territorial views from the top. On a clear day you can see the Mediterranean. Wear your sneakers if you go so you can go up in the castle - the steps are fairly frightening even with good, non-slippery shoes. It was one of the best stops I made in two weeks in Provence.

Arles or St-Remy would be easier bases with a car and equally convenient for all the places mentioned here plus Avignon.

Sassafrass

The Camargue.
I personally loved the area and want to return. Is it spectacular? Depends on your point of view. This area is not dramatic like the Amalfi Coast with towns hanging from cliffs (my favorite coast that I have seen) or Croatia, which is stunning. It is subtle. It is flat and marshy with soft, muted colors, white salt flats, canals, birds and pale light. We did see horses wandering around, but I loved the pink clouds of Flamengoes rising out of the wetlands. We saw a lot of those. I loved seeing the cowboys and cowgirls working with the bulls. Perhaps because of the work they do, they looked so healthy and robust and beautiful. The leather gaucho pants, beautiful boots and great hats did not hurt. We took some tours and I think they knew where to take us to be most likely to see horses and birds.
We stayed inside the walls of Aigues Mortes. Imagine staying in a place 800 years old. This is probably one of my very favorite, small walled cities. It is unique in design, being built on such flat land, so authentic, and the history of how it was developed specifically to launch the crusades, which for good or for bad, affected the entire world is really so interesting. During the day, the city is crowded with tourists, making some areas unpleasant, but spend the night and your footsteps are the only sound breaking the silence. St Louis Square is one of the loveliest I have ever seen in the evening, and I dream of eating there again one evening.
However, many will find the area dull, old and uninteresting. If you have seen the swamps and bayous of the Southern US, you might find it boring. Only you know how you will respond.

You mentioned wanting to see a pretty City. For my money, Aix en Provence is one of the most charming you can find. The first time I was there, I cried because I had not gone earlier in my life. The Main Street, Cours Mirabeau, is wide, lined with giant Plane trees and decorated with a large fountain, and is simply the most beautiful you will see in France. Just off it is a warren of narrow streets lined with cafes straight out of an impressionist painting, window boxes dripping with flowers. You mentioned food. There is a huge Moroccan influence here and the food is amazing, The Tagine dishes had me dreaming all day of what I would eat that night.

Arles is interesting also, for the Van Gogh connections and especially to see the wonderful Roman Arena, which is still in use. We stayed in Arles for a few days because it has easy train and bus connections to Les Baux (opportunity for a tiny bit of hiking and a four star sight) and Avignon. Both are worth seeing, depending on your interests. Arles also has one of the biggest Saturday markets in the area. It will make you wish you were staying there to buy food.

Les Baux, a “dead” city with grand views. It did not seem dead to me. It had restaurants and shops and was filled with people. Worth hiking up just for the views.
Avignon is interesting and pretty, has the Palace of the Popes and a nice river to walk to, worth the time if you have it, but not as worthwhile to me personally as other places.

We, unfortunately, did not get to the Pont du Gard Roman Aqueduct and you might find that interesting and a place walk or hike. Read about it and decide.

Sadly, we also missed the hill towns of the Luberon, which look so beautiful.
St Remy is often recommended as a good base for day trips.

As others are recommending, there are such a plethora of truly great sights and places in a small area, concentrate on those and skip the travel to St Tropez.
If you go to the Camargue, stay at least one night.
The airport that serves Avignon, Marseilles and Aix is very good. If you can change any flights and depart from there to Croatia, do it. It could save you a day of travel, even if you lose a bit of money.
I hope some of these personal experiences help in your planning.

Sassafrass

Just took another look at your trip.
Unfortunately, the 11th, 14th, 15th, 17th and 18th are mostly travel. Every travel day is costing as much or more money than the sightseeing days and eating up most of your time. Are you getting your time and money’s worth?
The 12th, 13th and 16th are the only days you have planned enough time in one place to see or do anything. Fast travel is one thing, and perhaps just constantly moving from place to place like the Amazing Race is what you enjoy rather than the experiences that Europe offers. Only you know what suits you both, based on your past travel experiences together.

However, if you do not want your honeymoon to be a race, these are truly meant as positive suggestions.
How much time do you have in Croatia?

1. If the mountains are of most interest, perhaps cancel time in Provence, add it to Croatia, and go directly to Croatia from Annecy, or
2. Cancel Croatia and increase time in Provence.
3. The mountains and hiking seem to be of great interest, but if they are not, take a fast train straight from Paris to Avignon, visit Provence and fly from Provence to Croatia.

At the very least, you have to really cut back in Provence.

It would be interesting to know your schedule for Croatia. I do hope you have allowed some relaxation time. Dubrovnik was super crowded during the day when I was there in September. Be prepared. Have sunscreen, a hat and water to walk the walls. Walk in reverse if you can. Sometimes it feels less crowded that way, at least for part of the way.

Even advice that seems critical can add to your planning information. I believe everybody does want you to have a wonderful trip.

julianafoster7038

Hi everyone,

I am so thankful for all your helpful comments over the past few days! I truly appreciate your help more than I can express. It seemed like everyone had the same general idea, so we altered our trip to match the suggestions.

The only thing we were (sadly) not able to change were the flights. However, we were able to find later trains on Friday to help us spend more time exploring Provence.

There are a few options we are still deciding on, but here is our updated itinerary:

September 11:
Arrive in Paris at 8:10am, take train to Annecy. Arrive at 2:27pm.
Stay in Annecy

September 12:
Hike in Massif des Bauges (37 min)
Stay in Annecy

September 13:
Visit Chamonix/Mount Blanc (1 h 8)

One idea we thought of here. We can either depart Annecy on September 13th afternoon at 4:44pm and arrive in Avignon at 9:17pm (adding another night to Avignon) or depart Annecy on Tuesday morning at 9:00am, where we arrive in Avignon at 12:42pm.

September 14:
Spend the day/evening in Avignon (what time we arrive depends on the above)

September 15:
Take a rental car from Avignon to Arles (44 m)
Take car from Arles to Camargue (19 m)
An option here is to cut the tour in Camargue for more time in Arles.
Spend the evening in Avignon

September 16:
Explore the Luberon/Gordes
Spend the evening in Avignon

September 17:
Last option here: we can either explore Aix en Provence in the morning/early afternoon, or we can spend time in another, smaller area.
Depart either Aix en Provence or Avignon at 4:40pm, arrive in Paris at 7:50pm

Again, I cannot say thank you enough. I feel as though you saved us from a disaster trip. We both had a feeling we were doing too much, but I don't think we realized HOW much until we read through all of your comments. So again, thank you!!

We are still flexible and have not made any bookings, so please feel free to add or change where you think we should.

I did not want to include too much in this post, but when we work out our France itinerary, we are happy to post our Croatia one. Luckily, our Croatia trip is a lot slower place. Our friend goes to Croatia often and created it for us.

julianafoster7038

Also, we are looking to stay in a smaller town outside of Avignon as suggested. Any hotel recommendations are welcome!