gregs317

Hey, I'm planning my 1st trip to Europe in June 2011. I probably won't be able to go again for a long time after this, so I want to get a taste of 2 or 3 cultures. So far this is what I'm looking at.

Fly to Florence, hang out for about 5-6 days here. 2 of those days will probably be bus tours out of Florence: wine-tasting somewhere in Tuscany and a trip to some other town - Siena maybe?

Train to Lucerne, Switzerland to get a small taste of the alps - I have some Swiss-German heritage also. Stay about 3 days, with possible day trip - not sure where yet.

Train to Lyon, France to do some wine-tasting and possible day-trip to Dijon. About 3 days here. Then fly home from Lyon.

Or begin in Florence then to Rapallo, Italy to be near the ocean for a few days before going to Lucerne. Last day and night in Zurich. Fly home from Zurich.

I'd kinda like to itinerary #1 the most, get a little sample of each Italian, Swiss-German, and French cultures. Do you think this itinerary sounds good for a first-timer? Not too ambitious? I'll probably be in a bit of culture-shock when I first get to Florence, but I'm sure it'll be fine once I get adjusted. About 2 weeks total, first/last days being travel days, so 12 full days on the ground. Thanks for any advice for a first-time Europe traveler. Greg

oldmacdonald

If this is your first trip, you only have 12 days and you won't be back for a while, I would focus my trip on 2 places and not move around as much. Maybe a Paris-London trip would suit your needs, with a side trip to Ghent or Bruges for a night? They are different cultures, easily accessible from one another via the Eurostar, are truly great cities and they both have great day trips.

While Florence is a fine city and I enjoyed it, Paris is much better in almost every way. While I have not been to Lyon, I am guessing London will hold your interest much longer. Save the Swiss/Italy trip for you next holiday - Switzerland could eat up a good week or two and Italy really needs more time to explore its gems (Rome, Venice, villages, seaside towns, lakes, etc). After Paris-London, you'll want to come back sooner than later.

gregs317

I definitely want to keep Switzerland and Italy. I know I can't see all of 'Italy's gems' on this trip, but I would love to see some of the work by Michelangelo (David) and Brunelleschi (Florence Dome). I also really want to view some ceiling frescoes. I'm taking an Art History class now, and can't wait to see these things in person.

How about Florence-Venice-Lucerne - fly home from Zurich? Greg

swandav2000

Hi gregs317,

With your interests, you should definitely plan to see the Kloster Einsiedeln near Luzern. Here's a link to their site:

http://www.kloster-einsiedeln.ch/neu/fs_english.htm

Click on "abby" and then "history" to get an idea.

If you want to see some mountains, you can easily ascend the Rigi, Pilatus, or Titlis, all nearby Luzern. I think that Titlis is also close to Einsiedeln, so you may be able to do those two in one day.

You can check the train schedules at the rail site:

www.rail.ch

Have fun!

s

swandav2000

Ooop, sorry. I just checked, and Einsiedeln isn't close to Titlis at all! Sorry for the mis-information!

s

Trav_Eller

On every travel forum you will always find the butterflies and the bees.

The butterflies - like me - want to flit from place to place, staying just long enough to sample a little nectar, meet a few locals, enjoy a brief interlude, then move on to the next place, and the next and the next. The bees like to find a lovely place full of nectar-laden flowers and settle down to absorb the ambience, understand the culture, load up on nectar and then fly home. Yeah, I know the metaphor is a little laboured but I think you'll get my drift.

Neither is wrong; both have a marvellous time travelling.

Those suggesting that you see only two countries have given very sound reasons for that. If you are a bee by nature, that is the right plan for you.

But if you're a butterfly, you might not only see three regions, but more in that short time. Which are you?

On my first trip to Europe I, like you, also thought it might be my only one. I decided to see absolutely everything I possibly could because I honestly believed I would never return so I leased a car and drove 11000km through every country in Western Europe over 9 weeks. Ignore what follows if you're a bee

I proved the doctors wrong and I'm going back again. This time I won't be driving. Here is my own plan, still in development, for the French-Swiss-Italian section of my next trip including some of the great scenic rail trips of Europe for next May:

Wednesday Rail Stansted to London, continuing on Eurostar to Paris.
Thursday Stay Paris
Friday Stay Paris
Saturday Rail to Zermatt or Visp. Stay overnight
Sunday Glacier Express to Chur. Stay overnight
Monday Bernina Express to Milan via Tirano
Tuesday Stay Milan
Wednesday Milan to Ljubjlana
Thursday
Friday Ljubjlana to Rijeka

That's just the first week and a bit The second week is wandering down the Dalmatian coast on buses. Of course if you don't like buses or trains that would be a nightmare - but I enjoy the journey as much as the destination. Especially journeys as spectacular as those.

If I wished to see Florence instead, it would be a simple change to go there instead of Milan on the Wednesday. But I saw Florence a couple of times since that first "once in a lifetime" trip. In your case, it would also be simple to include some extra time in Switzerland to see your relations.

Rather than set times at this early stage, make a list of what are the "must see" and "must experience" things to be included on your trip. Then connect the dots to see if you have time to do it all and what sequence you would need to do or see them in.

And never plan to do anything important in the first 24 hours - that is "adjusting the body to Europe time" day.

Cheers, Alan
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/

Trav_Eller

A postscript. There are many good rail planning sites for Europe, but these are the two I am using most at the moment as a reference:

A detailed site listing information on almost every rail system in Europe:
http://www.seat61.com/

The German booking site which also includes detailed schedule information for other European rail systems:
www.bahn.de

The Swiss site for the Alpine express trains:
http://www.rhb.ch/Bernina-Express.33.0.html?&L=4

Cheers, Alan
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/

zeppole

gregs317,

Hi, I live in Italy, not far from Rapallo, and I like your first itinerary. It appears to be what you really want to do, and it will give a great feel for 3 very different places. Lyon will be easier to see in a short space of time than Paris, and many people think the food and wine is much better!

I don't recommend bus tours out of Florence, if by that you mean organized tours. Just take buses on your own. Siena is a fine choice. Another wonderful bus trip is the 15 minute bus ride up into the hills above Florence, to the town of Fiesole, where you'll also find Roman ruins plus lovely views of Florence and the Duomo amid the olive trees. (And you can catch a cool breeze if Florence is hot). There are a couple of smaller places in Florence I hope you won't miss. One is the museum of the Duomo, which is really a beautiful extension of seeing the Duomo itself. THe other is the Museo San Marco. I also urge to see the freschi in the Cappella Brancacci, the Palazzo Medici Riccardi, the cloisters of the church of Santa Maria Novella. Fortunately Florence is a compact place and all of these places are within walking distance of each other.

I wouldn't bother to leave Florence to go wine tasting, since there are so many great wine bars inside Florence with huge selections of wine. If you want to see some of the countryside, take a bus to Panzano in Chianti, and from there you can take another bus to Siena, through the wine country.

Have a great time!

zeppole

PS: I need to correct a typo in my last post. I should have typed "affreschi" instead of "freschi" -- meaning, in English, "frescoes".

Viajero2

I think your first itinerary (Florence-Swiss Alps-Lyon) is great. You will find out by doing what type traveler you are. Settle on that plan and move on to the logistics. Get very familiar with Italian online trains sites and plan to do as much independent as you can; it is cheaper, you see more, and you also learn more in the process. Look for an apartment in Florence (many have a min of 3 days). Evaluate splitting up the Florence stay with another nearby region; Cinque Terre, Umbria, Rome. I am reading a book called "The Stones of Florence" which was recommended on this site and it is absolutely wonderful as background info on Florence. I discovered Florence on my fourth trip to Italy and I so regret not thinking on going to Florence earlier. There is not a day that goes by that I do not dream on going back again!

Have fun planning!

Michel_Paris

I've been to Lyon and think it is a good choice, based on the geography of your other locations.

I landed in Paris and took TGV from CDG to Lyon, and the reverse going home. I spent 4.5 days there. Old town, Fourviere, Roman arena, Gallo-Roman museum, Croix Rousse, Places des Terraux, Palce Bellecour, opera district,etc.. I also tried to eat well, so went to some recommended restaurants. I also had a little business to do, so took train through base of Alps to go to Chambery, a neat little trip, and not far.

I felt I got a nice overview of the city in that time, but I still need another trip to see some more of the sites.

gregs317

Thanks everyone. I think I'm gonna stick with the 1st itinerary. Probably will do 5 days Florence, 4 in Lucerne, and 3 in Lyon.

Regarding train tickets from Florence to Lucerne and Lucerne to Lyon, do I need to buy tickets in advance or just arrive at the train station an hour or 2 early? Greg

zeppole

Some of the answer depends on whether you will be traveling on a weekend, or a holiday -- or especially a holiday weekend!

In Italy, June 2 is a holiday.

However, you should check the train schedules to see how many options you have from Florence to Lucerne. You might not have all that many, and you might as well reserve a seat in advance if the only option to getting there at a reasonable hour is a particular train on the day you want to go. You can buy tickets from travel agents as well as at the train station

zeppole

PS: I should add I only know about train travel and holidays for Italy.

charnees

Another often-overlooked museum in Florence is the Bargello. It's right in the same area as Palazzo Vecchio. It has interesting architecture on it's own, inside, and has lots of great sculpture. And it's never as crowded as the biggies in Florence.

if you got an apartment, that would be great, if you don't mind buying some groceries and at least making your own breakfasts. Look in the Oltrarno (across the Arno from the main part of inner Florence). you are still in walking distance of everything and I think younwould like the atmosphere there.

suze

I think your first itinerary is great. When someone wants to see Italy/Switzerland I don't understand a poster suggesting London/Paris)!

Train stations aren't like airport that you need to arrive 2 hours early. As long as it's not a holiday and you have the train schedule, you need arrive only with enough extra time to purchase the ticket and walk yourself to the platform.

zeppole

While suze is essentially correct in that you don't have to pass through security, a long train ride from Florence to Lucerne can be popular, and you want to be sure you have a reserved, comfortable seat.

suze

It's not only passing through "security". Airlines require passengers to be present at a certain amount of time before your flights leaves. This is not true of trains.

zeppole

Yes, I don't think the issue is about when to arrive at the station. It's when to buy the ticket. Once you have the ticket, you can show up anytime before the train leaves. But I'm reluctant to tell gregs that he can wait until an hour or two before the train leaves to buy a ticket for a ride from Florence to Lucerne. Were he just going to Pistoia or Pisa, I'd say, show up a half-hour ahead of time. But for Lucerne, I say buy the ticket as soon as you are sure which train you want to be on, and reserve a good seat for the long ride.

gregs317

What about the red/black signs in Florence for differentiating between a residence/business - are house numbers and businesses still identified with red/black signs? Or have things changed? The red and black system sounds like it could get confusing trying to find your way around. Is Florence difficult to get around without getting terribly lost (when walking). Thanks, Greg