Well I have spent lots of time refining my April 2017 trip after being told I was driving too many miles a day and that wouldn't leave any time to actually see the sights--so have listed below my proposed itinerary complete with mileage and listed times from AA road trip planner. Coming from the US each days driving below seems like a snail's pace but was told to double the times listed on the AA road trip planner and include at least an hour for each sight on the driving portion. Can I have my experts opinion of the England portion of my trip--thanks so much for your advise!!

S Fly out from LA
Su Arrive in London
M London
T London
W London
Th London
F train to Croydon-get rental car—Croydon(Waddon station) to Canterbury to Dover 82mi/2 hrs.
S Dover to Rye to Bodiam to Hastings to Eastbourne 82 mi/ 2 ½ hrs
Su Eastbourne to Beachy Head to Brighton to Portsmouth 75 mi/ 2 ½ mi
M Portsmouth to Winchester to Stonehenge to Salisbury 72 mi/ 1 ¾ hrs
T Salisbury to Wells to Bath 63 mi/2 hrs
W Bath to Avebury to Windsor to Slough-return rental car- Burnham train station to hotel in London 91 mi/2 ¼ hr
Th Train to York
F York via train to Durham (get rental car) to Newcastle upon Tyne to Hadrian ’s Wall to Carlisle 81mi/2 hrs.

Continue on to Scotland (itinerary still being fine tuned)

>>and listed times from AA road trip planner.<<

You do need to add time -- not as much as with googlemap but still probably 25%-nearly 50% to each journey.

For instance >>Croydon(Waddon station) to Canterbury to Dover 82mi/2 hrs. << is more like a 3 hour drive, and your Dover to Eastbourne day is more like a 3 to 4 hour drive.

I'm sorry - but I don;t think your problem is the mileage. I think the problem is that you are trying to do 2 or 3 days sightseeing in each day you have listed. It's not like you can pull into a mall parking lot, dump a car, race around for an hour to see everything and then go back and jump in the car.

You're right the distances are not great. But for instance you have Winchester, Stonehenge and Salisbury in one day. This is rally at least 2 days and possible 3.

Bath definitely deserves a complete day for itself. Not small parts of 2 days coming and going.

Have you even looked at the list of sights in each of these places? As well as how long it takes to actually see them? Strongly suggest you get a Michhelin green guide and look at each city - then check out the 3* ad 2* sights and see how long it takes to visit each one. Either you don;t really want to see these places or have no idea of what they are/their significance.

We have done several rod trips in various parts of the UK and while local roads will force you to limit your speed the majorhighways (from which you see nothing) are similar speeds to the US. But the difference is we spent 2 nights in Bath (so one full day and 2 half days - and still didn;t see everything).

You aren;t even giving a day to York - but what appears to be small parts of 2 days. And Hadrian's wall is also the best part of a day to see Housesteads and the various other sights.

If you are just checking off places on a list - then your trip is fine. If you want to learn anything about what you are seeing - the history, what happened there, the importance of various sights - you just need way more time in each place.

For reference -- here is the OP's original thread

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...d-182494-2.cfm

I do agree w/ nyt -- this is really fast paced.

Take this day: >>Portsmouth to Winchester to Stonehenge to Salisbury 72 mi/ 1 ¾ hrs<<

First of all it will be more like a 2.5 hour drive. Then say you spend just 2 hours in Winchester, Stonehenge really can't be visited in less than 2 hours- -- OK that is about 7.5+ hours (including lunch) without visiting anything in Salisbury. Salisbury Cathedral closes at 5PM so you would want to be there well before 4PM. Just not enough hours in the day unless you are running full tilt the whole day (and don't hit any traffic or road construction)

And that is one of your easier days.

I agree with above.

And who said allow an hour for each sight on the driving portion? You need almost an hour just to find the lot, park, get into whatever the site is, and get back out. You need several hours in Canterbury. You need a LONG day in Dover. You need at least 2 in Hastings (and we spent about 3 in Bodiam but took lots of pictures and ate lunch). You need at least 3 to wander Winchester. At least that long in Salisbury. Who knows how long in Stonehenge. At least 3 or so in Wells. Another LONG day in Bath. I mean if you want to wave at things, or park, walk up to something, say I've seen it and leave, then maybe--

And please don't short yourself on time along Hadrian's Wall--that's a full day's worth.

I TOTALLY get trying to see all you can. But I really think you will enjoy your trip better if you cut something out. (I'd drop the Portsmouth area stuff; Rye is cute but not as great, to me, as Bodiam and Hastings; if I had to pick between Canterbury and Dover, I'd keep Dover (and I teach Canterbury Tales!--but Dover has best castle--which needs a long time to enjoy.)

Also maybe go to Windsor for half day FROM London and don't use part of your "road trip" time for that.

Mantra on this forum--everyone has his own style of travel and only you know you really, and what you want and are capable of.

But, I hope you take advice of those who've gone before--and cut some things out so you have time to actually enjoy some of those places.

Back to the drawing board-- I so appreciate all of your comments and suggestions. I have read lots of different travel books but they really didn't give suggested times that are needed in each place so what you have mentioned really helps. Also have taken the ideas of cutting out Rye and Canterbury. When reading the travel books I basically made a list of those places that were highly recommended that I though we would like. Regarding York we are taking an early train from London so should have pretty much the full day to see the sights there. Our method of travel is pretty much full tilt as one mentioned...we are not the "sit down for lunch" crowd but more the picnic lunch along the side of the road in a scenic spot. Any other suggestions--we have 2 weeks to visit England and 2 weeks to see Scotland.

I'm reminded of my first driving tour in England. It was for research purposes with lots of stops in local records offices & libraries, loads of ground to cover, much of it in small towns down narrow roads. Part-way through I realized it was hopeless so lopped off the entire northern half of the itinerary and breathed a sigh of relief. I enjoyed myself very much from that point onward.

bornintheusa: while you are reconsidering things -- consider this: A continual series of one-night stops really doesn't work all that well. You have breakfast, check out (when the landlady can take a break from serving other guests) pile in the car, spend all day in the car hopping from one place to another, spend half an hour looking for your next B&B, check in, find someplace for dinner, partially unpack, only to jump out of bed, dash through breakfast, check out, pile the bags in the car and . . . repeat.

It is just too easy for the whole itinerary to fall apart because of one road works or (yes - really) sheep in the road. Decide which places/regions are most important to you . . . then work out a plan where you can base for at least a couple of nights -- so you can unpack and relax a bit . . . and breathe . . .

Thinking about York, you have a world class railway museum (even if you hate trains, it is free and some of the things are pretty fascinatin), you have two long shopping streets of medieval houses, which need a stroll, you have a Cathedral (worth buying the guide for this as well as strolling around), you have the merchant ventura's hall (only a short visit but fascinating in itself) you have the support buildings behind the Cathedral worth poping into. If you are staying over there are ghost walks etc. Then there are the walls and you might like some food/drink.

I've excluded York Museum (which is good) just because I guess you have to let time off for good behaviour. The castle (cause it small, expensive and a waste of time). The yorvik tour because it is disney with smells. Betty's, the market and any larger shopping opportunity.

Now I've done the top part with a rushing family and we just about did it in a full day (only one exhausted tantram). It was a very full day

1.SOOO wise to be planning ahead; gives lots of time for re-doing and getting advice.
2.In my experience, SOOO wise to listen to the experts here (I'm NOT one, but will share from my 6 trips to the UK experience) and make adjustments.
3.The one-night-per-hotel/room can be doable--especially since you aren't doing that at the beginning and I hope not at the end of your trip. HOWEVER (and we, too, are definitely the pack-the-itinerary full/no sit down lunches/early start type) it can be wearing. See if some other base or 2 would allow you to see a lot with less movement.

What if you spent 2 nights each in ?Dover, Salisbury, Bath?? and saw those particular towns/cities and also took a day trip or so from each?

Also looks like a bit over 4 hour train ride Bath to York. Could you do something different about car return? Windsor is nice, but as I said above, maybe squeeze that in as a half day from London (although after seeing it for the first time last summer, I wouldn't put it above most of the places you have on your list). It all comes down to what time do you REALLY have and what do YOU most want to see? I have tried to see it all--and it CAN'T BE DONE! Ha.

Also Durham's cathedral is spectacular--but so are several others you might be seeing, so if it comes down to a choice, spend more time in York and LOTS of time along Hadrian's Wall. (We started driving really early from Carlisle, spent one long summer-light day along the Wall, and slept in Durham. The cathedral was open late so we visited in the evening a bit, but that's about all we saw in Durham.)

Also--you said you were told to double the times AA gave you--so did you in the itinerary you shared up top here? We used Google maps' times, doubled that when making our plans, and ended up averaging about 1.75 times the Google time suggested. Because we budgeted twice as long, that meant we never were real late for any expected arrivals.

I think your glitch with planning is not the estimated drive time but the wwwwaaaayyyy underestimates of time to visit the sites/towns/cities/battlegrounds (and times needed to find hotel/parking/pay/check in/check out, move, etc.) You might spend 15 minutes in just one roundabout! (Ha, not really, but driving in the UK is almost nothing like driving in the US!)

Another totally "weird" idea--you could stay in London for 10-11 days. Intersperse London days with day trips (we did that for 2 weeks--WONDERFUL!).

For example,

Dover is doable as a day trip.
Canterbury is, too--could even possibly combine if didn't do any White Cliffs walking but saw castle and cathedral

Winchester is day trip.

Salisbury is day trip; right outside train station will be a bus tour for trip to Stonehenge, so those are doable together.

Brighton is ---meh--to me--but a very easy day trip.

Bath is a day trip.

I don't think Wells is easy--I think it involves bus, too, so...my favorite cathedral in all the UK so far is Wells, but if you have to pick and choose....

Bodiam wayyyyy cool but easiest by car, I admit. I am glad we had a car to stop by Rye for 30 minutes and we spent a couple hours in Hastings with a car, too--but about 45 minutes of that was finding parking, parking way far away, and walking to and fro the battle site/abbey.

So--just another idea a year ahead--yes, London rooms are probably more than others, and I don't know how train tickets would end up comparing to cost of car rental, but you might consider idea.

Two (wonderful) times this is what I have done--once DH and I stayed in London 14 nights and took 4 day trips. Last summer DD and I stayed in London a bit over a week and took 3 day trips. Both times we opted for Rail Passes--yes, they average out to more than tickets bought in advance, but the flexibility, especially of any-day use and any-return train times, made it worth it.

This http://www.traveline.info/ links up all the public transport if you want to see how to get to say Wells off the car.

Not wishing to pour cold water over the OP's trip, but when you include a place in your trip, how much of it do you actually want to see. If is is just a drive through, then the trip is doable, but if you actually intend to stop and see anything, then no.

As an example, I've recently spent a week with my beloveds Brother in Law in the South of England. He was overwhelmed with the amount of history, and ended several day trips early because of "information overload".
In that time we did Winchester (a day and a half day), Avebury/Uffington/Stonehenge (a day trip)
Portsmouth (one trip to the Historic dockyard, another half day to see the waterfront and Portchester Castle)
We hardly scratched the surface.

This is exactly why I started planning this trip a year ahead so that I can fine tune my itinerary after hearing all that you experts have to say!!

texasbookworm--no, the times I included above were not doubled but what the AA trip planner calculated so will go ahead and double all of them on my itinerary--will take a look and see what sights we could do on day trips from London but also like the idea of having a rental car to get from one to another---am liking the idea of doing 2 nights in Salisbury and Bath and doing the day trips from there--also leaving from Bath to York is a marvelous idea which will eliminate going back into London for the night. THen I can include Windsor as a day trip from London.

Willit--I too understand overload when visiting so I think that is why we don't like to spend too much time at a sight..it just is very overwhelming so I think we most enjoy walking around a place, looking at the place as a whole, stopping here and there to further read up on it if something catches our eye.

Am I correct in assuming I want to get my rental cars outside of London because of that congestion tax someone talked about?? Where would I consider renting one for the drive south towards Salisbury/Bath that I could get to the rental agency easily with public transport??

>>Am I correct in assuming I want to get my rental cars outside of London because of that congestion tax someone talked about?? <<

yes -- outside of the city -- but the congestion tax is a minor consideration compared to the traffic.

For south (Kent/Sussex) the easiest place is train to Gatwick and pick up car there. For west (Stonehenge/Salisbury/Bath) the easiest is tube to Heathrow and pick up car there -- so depends on which direction you are headed first.

I got stuck thinking about getting the train to Waddon Station to pick up a hire car! [it may be a god idea, who knows, but it's by no means an obvious thing to do - apart from anything, you then have to slog through the dreadful south london traffic, which I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy]

Much better get the fast train to Gatwick, and then stay in, say, Tunbridge Wells to tour Canterbury, Dover, Deal in one day, then Rye, Bodiam, some of the Weald villages on the next. [yes, that's 3 nights but there is so much to see in Kent/Sussex you will only have scratched the surface]

The next day drive to Salisbury via Arundel, Chichester and Portsmouth; stay at least 2 nights and tour New Forest, Winchester, etc.

Then drive to Bath via Stonehenge, stay 2 nights - you get the idea.

We did a trip to the Southeast 2 years ago and we based ourselves in Royal Tunbridge Wells. There is so much to see in the surrounding area. I suggest you include more time in your itinerary to actually spend time seeing things as others have suggested.

We spent about 5 hours touring Dover Castle alone. It has the war time tunnels which is a must see while there and the hospital tour too. In addition, the castle itself has many viewing places. Dover Castle is spread out and there is plenty to see to occupy almost a full day.

We also enjoyed the town of Rye and Battle. At Battle they give you a headset and you walk around the battlefield as you are given a narration of the battle with differing scenarios or points of view.

Bodiam Castle is also great to explore but it needs time to see it thoroughly even though it is in ruins. We ate a picnic lunch on a bench at Bodiam. The day we were there a kid fell into the moat! Much excitement surrounded as they tried to rescue him.

Chartwell--Winston Churchill's home and grounds are beautiful. A timed ticket is required to visit the house. I highly recommend it.

Chatham Dockyards is very interesting as well. The ropery tour is excellent and the ships are wonderful to visit.


Further north there is plenty to see in York--the York Minster, the Railway museum, the York Castle museum, a walk along the walls, a ghost tour, exploring the snickleways--can easily take a day and a half at least.

Same goes for Salisbury, Bath and Stonehenge. Take time to enjoy the atmosphere without rushing through to the next destination without having fully explored the first. Enjoy your trip and the planning!