Hi,

I’m in the early stages of planning a father/daughter trip to Europe for next summer. I have limited travel experiences outside the US (a few trips over the years to Canada and Mexico), so I would like to learn as much as possible over the next few months. Before I get caught up in the details of traveling, I want to work out the “big picture” items, such as destinations, travel arrangements, travel dates, etc… Here’s what I do know.

It will just be the two of us, my wife and the younger kids will sit out this trip - if things go well, we’ll take the whole family the following year, if not, just my wife and I will go the next year and we’ll find a babysitter We have some flexibility in travel dates, we’d like to go somewhere between the 2nd week of June and the 2nd week of August 2010. We will have about 14-16 days, including travel days to spend there, flying in/out of Boise, Idaho.

My daughter really wants to see Ireland, and we’d like to visit London and Paris, too. So, I’m considering flying in to Dublin, then London, then Paris. I’m still undecided as to how to split up the days between each city. I do know that I would prefer to travel by train while in Europe. I would also like to spend a day or two in the Loire Valley, possibly taking a train from Paris, then renting a car for the Loire. I would much prefer public transportation for the rest of our trip. Since this is our 1st trip, we would most likely want to see the typical attractions, especially museums, castles, etc..

So, at this point, I’m hoping to find some advice on which part of the summer would be best for visiting Europe, what days of the week would be best for flying, as well as any thoughts on how many days to spend in each destination. Also, any advice on planning travel to Europe would be appreciated.

Earlier the better - August is hot, muggy and crowded. In June you will have cheaper air fares, likely better weather, and much smaller crowds.

I'd sit down w/ your daughter and decide which places are most Important to you. 2 weeks really is a bit frantic to cover Dublin (and you'd have NO time for other parts of Ireland) London, Paris and the Loire.

One day/night spent flying to, one day flying home, one day in a jet lagged fog, and about another full day lost over the different travel days. So 14 days all of a sudden becomes 10 days actual free time for 4 destinations.

Does your daughter want to see "Ireland" or "Dublin" -- not one and the same. If she means the gorgeous countryside and coast like Dingle/Kerry/etc -- they are nowhere near Dublin. If she means just Dublin - - that's fine but it suffers greatly when compared to London/Paris. If you do end up w/ 16 days, it helps a little - but not enough to tour around the scenic bits of W/SW Ireland.

London/Paris/Loire would be a doable 2 weeks. Or Dublin for about 2 days and the rest in London and Paris would be doable.

I agree with Janisj 2 days in Dublin if thats what you want to see and the rest in France and London.If you really want to see Ireland fly into Shannon get a car and just enjoy Ireland's country side .

Yes, I was going to suggest Shannon, too. I have done some reading on this, and it does seem important to distinguish between "Ireland" and Dublin.

So if you could fly in to Paris, spend 5 nights, with a day trip to a Loire chateau, then fly to London, 4 nights, then on to Shannon, 4 or 5 nights, you would be somewhat ready to do some driving by the time you got to Ireland. If you can add another day in there, you could do 4 in Paris, 2 in the Loire, 4 in London, and 4 or 5 in Ireland.

I agree that the earlier in the summer you can go, the better. Leaving mid June would be great.

It can be hard to pick a day of the week that is best for travel. You know your market, I guess, and I can't speak for Boise, but I generally find weekend flights to Europe to be more expensive, but weekday domestic flights to some times be higher.

Maybe sign up for some of those airfare alert websites, that send you fares for the trips you are interested in.

I agree. I travel to Dublin a lot for work and have never fallen in love with it. Its ok, but nothing compared to London, Paris or Rome. If she really wants to see Dublin than you can fly into there, stay a couple of days and then fly to London. Its a 1 hour flight and there are lots of flights on cheaper airlines. I would recommend Aer Lingus as Ryanair is very rigid with their luggage weights etc.

If you have 16 days, knock off 2 for travel, that leaves you with 2 days Dublin, 6 days London and 6 days Paris. Very doable. Take the eurostar between London and Paris (the earlier you book the cheaper it is) and fly home from Paris.

Good information, thanks! Based on feedback, Shannon looks to be a better fit for us than Dublin. From a flight cost and travel time perspective, we wouldn't be giving up much (a quick check on Kayak.com shows about $100 extra cost and about 3 or 4 more hours of travel time).

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't look like there is a significant difference in airfare when traveling mid-week vs. weekend. I've been on Kayak checking fares, and while there is a difference, it looks to be less than $100 per ticket. So, at this point, I think we could swing 16 days and fly into Shannon.
We'll need to talk things over a bit, but we'll also consider dropping the Loire in favor of time in Ireland, too.

hey I just posted on your other thread to talk you in to going to Switzerland with the whole family! Are these two different trips?

Hi Suze,

no, we had a change of plans and decided to wait a year before taking the younger kids, so this trip is in place of the original one we were considering. if all goes well, we'll be back on 2011 with the entire family.

Sorry, didn't mean to sound nosey. Thanks for the reply.

I always plan my own trips & think you've got a good start on yours. Get a map and a guidebook and just start planning! It's easy (& fun). My method is: decide destination and how many days each place, research & book a plane ticket direct with the airlines, make hotel resevations direct with hotels, but the rest I wait and plan as I go along (as far as making a daily itinerary, some people prefer to have one, I like to leave it open & plan day-by-day).

I could see landing in Shannon and driving the Rings, seeing Galway, some of the monestaries...3 days would fly by, and working your way back to Dublin, spend a day there and fly to London. 4 days there, then TGV to Paris 5 days there, including 1 day tour of Loire.

I'd not fly between Paris and London, timewise I think you would, point ot point, get there faster by TGV...plus the scenery.

The Loire is not particularly far from Paris. Parisvision and Cityrama are two of the larger bus torus companies that offer trips there.

Michel_Paris - thank you for the info, especially the tour options for the Loire, that could give us an option for trading a day in Paris for a day tour of the Loire River Valley.

Here's one possible itinerary:

Day 1 – Overnight flight to Shannon (Friday)
Day 2 – arrive in Shannon, light site seeing, relax
Day 3 – Full day in Ireland
Day 4 – Full day in Ireland
Day 5 – Full day in Ireland
Day 6 – Fly out of Ireland to London (or, possibly travel by rail/ferry to see some country side, but late arrival in London)
Day 7 – Full day in London
Day 8 – Full day in London
Day 9 – Full day in London
Day 10 – Full day in London
Day 11 – London to Paris by Eurostar
Day 12 – Full day in Paris
Day 13 – Full day in Paris
Day 14 – Full day in Paris
Day 15 – Full day in Paris
Day 16 – Depart Paris for return flight home (Saturday)


I'm still considering Dublin, though, with a day trip like one of these: http://www.seat61.com/Ireland.htm#Day%20trips

One reason I'm still considering this option is to allow for a train/ferry trip to London and still arrive at a reasonable hour.

no - you don't want to do the rail/ferry bit -- a long LOOOOONG day. And I would not fly from Dublin to London either. You'd be spreading yourselves too thin in Ireland. I'd fly to London from Cork, Kerry or Shannon - that would give you a full extra day either on the west coast of Ireland or in London.

Have you been checking whichbudget.com for the cheap inter Europe flights? You will probably have good options from Cork, Kerry and Shannon.

Hi Griz-fan -

What a great dad you are! My dad used to take one day off from work every summer and spend the day with me. I like your itinerary. Dingle and the Cliffs of Moher are worth seeing. The Irish b & b's are charming, and you might consider treating her to a night or two in one that's in a castle. Breakfast is usually included, and sometimes your hosts play music for your at night. For a hotel in London, I suggest the Radisson Edwardian Leicester Square. It's the perfect location to use a base for sightseeing because the tube stop is very close to the hotel. Your daughter will probably enjoy the fashion and jewelry exhibits at the Victoria and Albert Museum, visiting the Tower of London, taking a ride on the London Eye. The train from London to Paris is a lot of fun because you get to see the English and French countryside and it only takes about 2 1/2 hours. For a hotel in Paris, I recommend Hotel Madison on Blvd. St. Germain in the 6th arrondissment. Your daughter will probably enjoy riding to the top of the Eiffel Tower, taking a river cruise along the Seine, and seeing Degas's ballerinas at the Musee d'Orsay. She might also enjoy the Musee Rodin. It's in a lovely old hotel with a beautiful garden. You might have some fun together as you start to plan your trip if you take her to Barnes and Noble or Borders one day, have some lemonade, and look through lots of guidebooks. Have her help you make the list of what you'd like to see. I like Orbitz.com for checking airfares, Londontown.com for great info about London, and Paristriptips.com for Paris ideas. Hope you have a wonderful time together!

Agree to go as early as possible for the best weather. Dublin, London and Paris is certainly doable. But if you want to see "Ireland" - Dublin and what else, plus London with day trip plus Paris with the Loire - you're now talking about a 3-week trip - since 16 days is really 14.5 on the ground.

And strongly suggest that you not miss Dublin. I understand that much of Ireland is pretty - but can;t comprehend going there without a couple of days in Dublin. While I appreciate pretty countryside - I like cities - the bigger the better - with museums, cathedrals, historical sights and great restaurants. Small towns can be cute - esp if they have a really great sight nearby - but after a few days I'm bored with the sidewalks rolling up at 10 pm.

Suggestions for planning:

(a) Get yourself a book of self-guided walks for London and Paris. Frommers publishes good ones.

(b) Take some time visiting the transport websites for London and Paris. Both are exceptional with great maps. London's is particularly great with spider maps of bus stops (maps the show all the routes radiating).

Have fun planning -- not just fun, but it will cut down on wasted time when you are there. Afterall, on such a trip, time is THE most preceious commodity since nearly all your costs will be air and hotel fixed costs. The less time you spend lost/figuring out how to get from one place to another, the more time you will spend having great, memorable experiences.

SS

I can only give my inputs on Paris & London. I just came back from my trip to London-Milan-France. London was very nice (similar to San Francisco weather). Paris, on the other hand, was hot and humid. If you're into shopping, sales start beginning of week 3. My trip was from June 19-July 1, 2009. Plan to stay perhaps 3 or 4 days in London (3 days to visit the city, 1 day to visit the Stonehenge and Windsor Castle). I only stayed 2 full days in London so no time to visit the Stonehenge
5 days in Paris should be enough. So that gives you another 8 days to spend in your other destination points.

Places I visited in London: St Paul church, Buckingham Palace, Tower of London (close to Tower Bridge), London Eye (close to Big Ben, House of Parliament, & Westminster Abbey), Piccadily Circus (close to Soho Chinatown), Little Italy (I forgot the formal name of it), and Harrod's dept store.

Places I visited in Paris: Versailles castle, Eiffel, Notre Dame, Basilique de Sacre Cour, Arc de Triomphe, Champs' Elysees, Louvre museum, Galleries Lafayette (dept store, close to the Opera house).

You can take the underground (called Tube in london) in London and Paris, you can take the "Hop-On Hop-Off" city tour. But every tourist place is reachable by the underground (you can buy a day pass). Be extra careful for pickpockets in Paris.

Plenty of coffee shops in London and Paris. I miss them already

Grizfan's itinerary sounds good. 3 days in ireland, 4 in london, 5 in paris. You have 3 days to spare. I really suggest Stonehenge and Windsor Castle in London. So you should stay 4 days in London.
Wow you already start planning your trip? I am doing the same for my next year trip haha

I returned from a trip to London and Paris on Monday which had similar timelines to what you're projecting. Here was our itinerary:

London Day 1-London Eye, Parliament, Westminster
Day 2-Changing of the Guard, British Museum, Kensington Gardens, Harrods
Day 3-Windsor Castle, Stonehenge, Bath (highly recommend!)
Day 4-Tower of London, Globe Theatre, St. Paul's

Paris Day 5-Eurostar from London, Batobus to Eiffel Tower
Day 6-Notre Dame, Les Invalides, Place de la Concorde, Jardin des Tuileries, Louvre Museum
Day 7-Arc de Triomphe/Champs Elysees, Musee D'Orsay
Day 8-Eiffel Tower (again), Quartier Latin (Jardin du Luxembourg, Sorbonne, Pantheon)

I wish we could have gone to Versailles and Sacre Coeur. I would also recommend the Best Western Jardin de Cluny in the Quartier Latin. It's modern, affordable, and the staff are great! I just wanted to provide some suggestions; have a great trip!

I always say that part of the fun of travel is anticipating and planning! My inclination given your daughters special interest in Ireland and having about two weeks would be to concentrate more on Ireland with maybe a side trip en route to London and environs. This would give you a bit more relaxed trip...and I think Paris and especially Loire Valley is stretching it a bit (meaning you will be so tired by then).
As nytraver says this need three weeks.

Yes, as mentioned there is "Ireland" meaning perhaps the West country and there is "Dublin" which might include Glendalough and Newgrange. Both have their attractions. You haven't said what your special interests are, so is it the wilds of the Burrens and green fields or a play at The Abbey Theatre and prehistoric sites...or both which I love. Of course leave time for the pubs and music and surely some abbeys and hiking.

Have fun planning away!

ozarksbill [email protected]