First Time Travel
Apr 6th, 2008 | 05:17 PM
#1
Original Poster
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
First Time Travel
Hi all,
I am a first time traveler oversees. A friend and I would like to take a 3 week or month long tour of Western Europe (At least including Spain and England). The good news is, we have up to 14 months to plan and are very flexible with locations/activities/etc. The bad news is that we are both social workers and so are working on a tight budget. Neither of us have ever been to Europe and don't even know where to begin! Can you help?
Thanks,
Dori
I am a first time traveler oversees. A friend and I would like to take a 3 week or month long tour of Western Europe (At least including Spain and England). The good news is, we have up to 14 months to plan and are very flexible with locations/activities/etc. The bad news is that we are both social workers and so are working on a tight budget. Neither of us have ever been to Europe and don't even know where to begin! Can you help?
Thanks,
Dori
Apr 6th, 2008 | 05:26 PM
#2
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Browsing through the board, particularly trip reports of countries that interest you will help. And look at Lonely Planet's Thorn Tree http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/index.jspa
Make a list of things you are dying to see, priotize, then check the map to see how many of them you can fit into 3 or 4 weeks.
When you know roughly what your objectives are, come back for specific money-saving tips.
Have fun planning!
Vera
Make a list of things you are dying to see, priotize, then check the map to see how many of them you can fit into 3 or 4 weeks.
When you know roughly what your objectives are, come back for specific money-saving tips.
Have fun planning!
Vera
Apr 6th, 2008 | 08:17 PM
#3
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 473
Likes: 0
Obviously at this point you're looking for generalities so here are mine:
Capital cities are a great place to start. I would consider spending time in Paris, London and Madrid.
Big city hotels are usually more expensive but for good reason since these cities have it all. Museums, grand parks, fantastic architecture and great food/market areas. Use tripadvisor to find "deals". I think 3 star hotels in Paris and London are just fine. I found that 3 and 4 stars in Spain's smaller locales are not nearly as nice as a 3 star in the center of Madrid and Barcelona.
You can save money by utilizing public transportation and setting an itinerary that is accessible using the rail passes. Car rental fees, mandatory insurance and the price of gas and toll roads are real budget busters. Also there are very cheap inter-country flights throughout Europe--these budget airlines may charge extra for luggage weight overages so packing light is a good idea.
If this trip could be the only time you ever plan on going to Europe then I would definitely not skip Paris or London. If you expect it to be the first of many other trips over your lifetime then your choices could include some exploration of remoter areas to balance out the faster pace of large cities.
I haven't mentioned Italy which in my opinion you almost can't make a bad choice of city or region. The whole country or any portion thereof would make for a fantastic adventure for first-timers.
Bone up on the native language of each country you plan to visit and do your best to ask questions and greet people as they would.
Have fun doing your planning--for me it is an exhilarating part of any trip.
Capital cities are a great place to start. I would consider spending time in Paris, London and Madrid.
Big city hotels are usually more expensive but for good reason since these cities have it all. Museums, grand parks, fantastic architecture and great food/market areas. Use tripadvisor to find "deals". I think 3 star hotels in Paris and London are just fine. I found that 3 and 4 stars in Spain's smaller locales are not nearly as nice as a 3 star in the center of Madrid and Barcelona.
You can save money by utilizing public transportation and setting an itinerary that is accessible using the rail passes. Car rental fees, mandatory insurance and the price of gas and toll roads are real budget busters. Also there are very cheap inter-country flights throughout Europe--these budget airlines may charge extra for luggage weight overages so packing light is a good idea.
If this trip could be the only time you ever plan on going to Europe then I would definitely not skip Paris or London. If you expect it to be the first of many other trips over your lifetime then your choices could include some exploration of remoter areas to balance out the faster pace of large cities.
I haven't mentioned Italy which in my opinion you almost can't make a bad choice of city or region. The whole country or any portion thereof would make for a fantastic adventure for first-timers.
Bone up on the native language of each country you plan to visit and do your best to ask questions and greet people as they would.
Have fun doing your planning--for me it is an exhilarating part of any trip.
Apr 6th, 2008 | 08:24 PM
#4
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,037
Likes: 0
Hi brooklyndori, one thing to sort out is, are you thinking big cities or small towns/rural areas? Also, whether you'd want to rent a car at some point or if you'd rather stick with trains and/or flights.
I'd also start thinking about what it is you want to see in England and Spain. To me, these would be natural bookends of an itinerary- start your trip in London, and end in Spain. Spain is a large country though so I think I'd start by zeroing in on what it is you want to see there (ie why Spain?- beaches, flamenco, medieval history, Guerenica, white villages, Dali, or family ancestry?) and how much time you are willing to budget for it. You could easily spend a wonderful 3 or 4 weeks in England and Spain alone, if you wanted.
If you did want to see something of another country, then adding France would make for a logical trio (especially for a first trip because Paris is a must-see IMO)
Then it comes back to the question of cities versus countryside, cars versus trains. I myself prefer big cities and love museums, so if it were me I would probably spend most of my time in London, Paris, and Madrid. But that's just me, it really comes down to individual interest.
One thing is that you will save money by not travelling too much between multiple destinations. Think about staying in major cities for a minimum of 5 nights; better yet, stay a full week and take a daytrip or two. Popular daytrips from London include Stonehenge, Bath, Oxford, Cambridge. Popular trips from Paris are Versailles, Chartes, Fontainbleau, Rouen, Reims, Giverny.
Another good way to keep expenses down is by renting apartments. You can often find something more spacious and comfortable for the same price or less than two hotel rooms would cost. Renting for a full week usually means an even lower nightly rate, and with kitchen facilites you can save money by buying groceries. If you are up to climbing a few flights of stairs, there are some nice apartments to be had for budget prices because they don't have an elevator.
There is so much information here, you'll have no trouble putting together a great trip. Have fun planning!
I'd also start thinking about what it is you want to see in England and Spain. To me, these would be natural bookends of an itinerary- start your trip in London, and end in Spain. Spain is a large country though so I think I'd start by zeroing in on what it is you want to see there (ie why Spain?- beaches, flamenco, medieval history, Guerenica, white villages, Dali, or family ancestry?) and how much time you are willing to budget for it. You could easily spend a wonderful 3 or 4 weeks in England and Spain alone, if you wanted.
If you did want to see something of another country, then adding France would make for a logical trio (especially for a first trip because Paris is a must-see IMO)
Then it comes back to the question of cities versus countryside, cars versus trains. I myself prefer big cities and love museums, so if it were me I would probably spend most of my time in London, Paris, and Madrid. But that's just me, it really comes down to individual interest.
One thing is that you will save money by not travelling too much between multiple destinations. Think about staying in major cities for a minimum of 5 nights; better yet, stay a full week and take a daytrip or two. Popular daytrips from London include Stonehenge, Bath, Oxford, Cambridge. Popular trips from Paris are Versailles, Chartes, Fontainbleau, Rouen, Reims, Giverny.
Another good way to keep expenses down is by renting apartments. You can often find something more spacious and comfortable for the same price or less than two hotel rooms would cost. Renting for a full week usually means an even lower nightly rate, and with kitchen facilites you can save money by buying groceries. If you are up to climbing a few flights of stairs, there are some nice apartments to be had for budget prices because they don't have an elevator.
There is so much information here, you'll have no trouble putting together a great trip. Have fun planning!
Apr 6th, 2008 | 08:54 PM
#5
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 75,008
Likes: 50
As you start to form your ideas, you will get TONS of good advice here. Everything mentioned above is good to get you started thinking.
Just a few of quick comments
1) once you narrow down the places you want to go - remember the more traveling around and more stopovers -- the more expensive things get. Plus all that travel really eats into your limited time. So don't try to see too much or go too many places.
2) Click on DESTINATIONS above and read up onnsome of the places you are considering. Lots of very good info right on the Fodors site.
3) Pick up a couple of good guidebooks, one on London and/or England, one on Spain -- maybe one on Paris (Michelin Green guides or DK Eyewitness are two of the best). And then start to nail down your itinerary.
4) When you are ready to book your flights (next Fall/Winter is plenty soon enough) check out open jaw tickets. If you say - fly into Madrid, then fly home from London. This will save you backtracking to your starting point.
Just a few of quick comments
1) once you narrow down the places you want to go - remember the more traveling around and more stopovers -- the more expensive things get. Plus all that travel really eats into your limited time. So don't try to see too much or go too many places.
2) Click on DESTINATIONS above and read up onnsome of the places you are considering. Lots of very good info right on the Fodors site.
3) Pick up a couple of good guidebooks, one on London and/or England, one on Spain -- maybe one on Paris (Michelin Green guides or DK Eyewitness are two of the best). And then start to nail down your itinerary.
4) When you are ready to book your flights (next Fall/Winter is plenty soon enough) check out open jaw tickets. If you say - fly into Madrid, then fly home from London. This will save you backtracking to your starting point.
Apr 6th, 2008 | 10:36 PM
#6
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
I will get heckled for this...but you may want to look into a tour if you are a first time traveler. Globus/Trafalger/Brendon/Central Holidays have good reputations (and sister budget companies like Cosmos ect.) Most people on this board are independent travelers so you will find few that recommend a tour. There is definitely pros and cons to both types of travel. I am an independent traveler but will do a tour if the pros out number the cons.
Lately, I have found the best deals on Internet sites that offer Hotel/Transportation multi-city packages. You also have the option of booking independent day tours. This allows you to have someone take you to the major tourist attractions but enough independent travel to do your own thing.
More internet sites are offering this type of travel. Try Gate One travel or Destination Europe to get some ideas.
Lately, I have found the best deals on Internet sites that offer Hotel/Transportation multi-city packages. You also have the option of booking independent day tours. This allows you to have someone take you to the major tourist attractions but enough independent travel to do your own thing.
More internet sites are offering this type of travel. Try Gate One travel or Destination Europe to get some ideas.
Apr 6th, 2008 | 11:19 PM
#7
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,050
Likes: 0
A suggestion: go to the library and get some videos of several countries (start with England, France, Spain, Italy) and some major cities (at least London, Paris, Rome, Venice, Madrid) to get a better idea of what you most want to see or do.
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Apr 7th, 2008 | 05:50 AM
#8
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,109
Likes: 0
Another budget help is going off season; both airfares and lodging will be lower. Maybe start in Spain in early spring and then move on to London when the weather is a bit warmer. Of course, weather is always a crapshoot. In spring, you could have hot weather, perfect weather, or chilly rain.
Have fun planning
PS your local library probably has a shelf of travel guides. Start there before investing heavily at a bookstore.
Have fun planning
PS your local library probably has a shelf of travel guides. Start there before investing heavily at a bookstore.
Apr 7th, 2008 | 05:58 AM
#9
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,699
Likes: 0
Hi B,
>3 week or month long tour of Western Europe (At least including Spain and England).
Fly into London - 7 nights in the UK
www.eurostar.com to Paris - 6 nights
Fly to Spain - www.whichbudget.com - for 7 nights.
Fly home from Spain.
See www.1800flyeurope.com, www.kayak.com for airfare.
Airfares are usually cheapest before Memorial Day and after Labor Day.
Enjoy your planning.
>3 week or month long tour of Western Europe (At least including Spain and England).
Fly into London - 7 nights in the UK
www.eurostar.com to Paris - 6 nights
Fly to Spain - www.whichbudget.com - for 7 nights.
Fly home from Spain.
See www.1800flyeurope.com, www.kayak.com for airfare.
Airfares are usually cheapest before Memorial Day and after Labor Day.
Enjoy your planning.
Apr 7th, 2008 | 06:24 AM
#11
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 75,008
Likes: 50
re the rec to consider a tour --- Nothing really wrong w/ tours (though most fodorites, me included, much prefer independent travel). However - don't be lured into thinking a tour is cheaper. Often they cost more. That all in one price can look attractive in the brochure - but that is per person double occupancy. So you pay 200% of the quoted price.
When you travel on your own, there is a certain economy of scale. Not everything costs twice as much for the two of you. A double/twin room often is only a little more expensive than a single. There are 2 for 1 entries to lots of sites. You can do picnics or even share some meals. You can usually rent an apartment for quite a bit less than comparable quality hotels, and have a LOT more space since European hotel rooms tend to be small. Having a kitchen doesn't mean you have to cook (unless you want to) - but it definitely saves money on breakfasts, snacks, beverages and such.
When you travel on your own, there is a certain economy of scale. Not everything costs twice as much for the two of you. A double/twin room often is only a little more expensive than a single. There are 2 for 1 entries to lots of sites. You can do picnics or even share some meals. You can usually rent an apartment for quite a bit less than comparable quality hotels, and have a LOT more space since European hotel rooms tend to be small. Having a kitchen doesn't mean you have to cook (unless you want to) - but it definitely saves money on breakfasts, snacks, beverages and such.
Apr 7th, 2008 | 08:41 AM
#12
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 225
Likes: 0
Check out the Globe Trekker series of DVDs for the locations you are thinking about going to (they offer both episodes giving an overview of the country, or a particular city). You can rent most titles through your local library for free. Also look through the guidebooks at your local bookstore - not just Fodors (Rough Guide, Lonely Planet, Let's Go, Frommer's, Rick Steves all offer suggestions on budget travel).
Realistically figure out how much money you need to have for this trip for everything...airfare, train/bus/subway passes, car rental, gasoline, sightseeing admissions, food, beverages, miscellaneous...
Once you decide where you want to go, you need to choose what time of year. Shoulder seasons are usually best for good weather, fewer crowds and slightly lower prices.
Create a rough outline of your itinerary - how many days do you want to spend in each place (take into consideration how long it may take to travel from point to point so it doesn't feel like you are on a race).
For accommodation, decide what kind of place you'd like to stay in based on your nightly budget...hostel (many now have a few private rooms with your own bathroom), apartment rental, B&B, guesthouse, hotel. Look into alternative budget accommodation - like a homestay with a local family or an available bed at a university, convent or monastery. Check out any reviews you can on the places you'd like to book (i.e., Trip Advisor, Fodor's, Hostelworld, BUG, etc.) to make sure the majority of other travellers found it was a decent place.
Happy planning...
Realistically figure out how much money you need to have for this trip for everything...airfare, train/bus/subway passes, car rental, gasoline, sightseeing admissions, food, beverages, miscellaneous...
Once you decide where you want to go, you need to choose what time of year. Shoulder seasons are usually best for good weather, fewer crowds and slightly lower prices.
Create a rough outline of your itinerary - how many days do you want to spend in each place (take into consideration how long it may take to travel from point to point so it doesn't feel like you are on a race).
For accommodation, decide what kind of place you'd like to stay in based on your nightly budget...hostel (many now have a few private rooms with your own bathroom), apartment rental, B&B, guesthouse, hotel. Look into alternative budget accommodation - like a homestay with a local family or an available bed at a university, convent or monastery. Check out any reviews you can on the places you'd like to book (i.e., Trip Advisor, Fodor's, Hostelworld, BUG, etc.) to make sure the majority of other travellers found it was a decent place.
Happy planning...
Apr 7th, 2008 | 09:01 AM
#13
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,997
Likes: 0
Grandmother says...put money under the mattress every pay check! Quit spending money on discretionary items. Budget your trip now. Put 1/14 th of budget every month in a money market account. Read this site, make notes, ask questions. Buy a map of Europe and plan your trip. Use 'search' to learn of events in the cities/areas you choose to visit. Can you work another job? Being short of money once on your trip may spoil it. Too many travelers try to get by with draconian measures. Think, peanut butter!
Apr 7th, 2008 | 07:48 PM
#14
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 75,008
Likes: 50
Huh -- ?? Three minutes after posting this thread, you posted the following on the Asia Forum:
<i>Author: brooklyndori
Date: 04/06/2008, 09:20 pm
Hi all,
I am a first time traveler oversees. A friend and I would like to take a 3 week or month long tour of Asia (Preferably Far East-not Thailand area). The good news is, we have up to 14 months to plan and are very flexible with locations/activities/etc. The bad news is that we are both social workers and so are working on a tight budjet. Neither of us have ever been to Asia and don't even know where to begin! Can you help?</i>
Are you trying to decide between this trip and that one, or just playing us . . . . .
<i>Author: brooklyndori
Date: 04/06/2008, 09:20 pm
Hi all,
I am a first time traveler oversees. A friend and I would like to take a 3 week or month long tour of Asia (Preferably Far East-not Thailand area). The good news is, we have up to 14 months to plan and are very flexible with locations/activities/etc. The bad news is that we are both social workers and so are working on a tight budjet. Neither of us have ever been to Asia and don't even know where to begin! Can you help?</i>
Are you trying to decide between this trip and that one, or just playing us . . . . .
Apr 8th, 2008 | 03:23 AM
#15
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 42,145
Likes: 7
Sounds like Dori is just not sure where she wants to go yet... thus the double posting which makes sense.
dori-
The past 15 months I've been living in Switzerland and traveling all over Europe. I'm from the NYC area. Here's my 3 cents...
Some destinations are certainly cheaper than others, but not always the way you might think. Apartments sound like a good bet for you and your friend. The silly things like breakfast and bottled water or coke can add up and it's nice to have a refrigerator. Plus on an extended trip of 3 weeks, sometimes a snack at home is about all you want after 6 restaurant meals.
For Western Europe, my favorite cities are Paris, Paris, and Paris... I don't think it is near as expensive there as Rome or Venice and probably not London either. There is just so much to do there, and you can work around a lot of budgets depending on accommodations, dining decisions and neighborhood. The museum fees are relatively reasonable compared to Rome and Venice. In fact, some museums in Paris are free at certain times/days.
I haven't been to London for a number of years, but I did love it - again lots to do and a variety of budgets but I'm thinking it would be very expensive now. I also really loved Amsterdam...not insanely expensive and a fun city with great art, food and the tulips etc. Avoid the redlight district for lodging if you can. I didn't care for that part although lots of tourist think its cool...It just depressed me that it was in the middle of this really amazing city.
Just returned from Spain and it was fine, with some amazing architecture and history, but it was not my personal favorite. As my 17-year-old daughter, who loved it there said, "Mom, Seville seems a bit spring-breakish".... she hit the nail on the head for me... Although I loved Alhambra, Real Alcazar, Ronda and surrounding scenery, the whole Spanish tapas, very late dinner thing didn't thrill me the way I thought it would. Well, I'm 48 and beyond a lot of fried mushrooms and fishbits at a dirty table with squashed pommes frite underfoot - I'm not a big drinker either which I think makes you notice the cleanliness less. (oh boy, I bet I'll hear about this...)
We did see a great Flamenco act although I hear this is touch and go and we definitely got lucky - funnily we saw it in Costa del Sol which was not on our original itinerary (we left Seville early and decided to get in a few beach days). My husband preferred Madrid to Andalucia... I've not been to Madrid and can't comment. We also stayed in a wonderful Inn in the middle of an olive grove in Ronda and that was really nice.
If I went back to Spain I would do a lot of things differently, and that may make all the difference to the trip...I just feel like in Paris you can't go wrong as a first timer. I feel the same about Amsterdam. I'm not as much in love with Italy as others on Fodor's but I'd still pick Rome, Amalfi and Capri or Venice over Spain for a first trip.
Just MHO and you will need to decide what you are interested in seeing and doing, and what cities/countries might appeal to you. Spain <i>is</i> cheaper than much of the rest of Europe.
My daughter says that the food, the things to do there, and whether or not the place is pretty, all determine the 'loving it' factor. I think she's right about the criteria for a fun trip. (Her favorite city is far and away Florence and she has been pretty much to most of the major cities of Western Europe.)
If you like pasta and renaissance art and churches, Italy is a good place for it. If you like sitting in cafes and seeing amazing impressionistic art head to Paris. If tapas and Moorish architecture is your thing, go to Spain, gorgeous scenery and chocolate; don't miss Switzerland, etc. etc.
Well, no matter where you go, you will be glad you left brooklyn and opened up your worldview for a few weeks.
Keep us posted on your plans!
gruezi
dori-
The past 15 months I've been living in Switzerland and traveling all over Europe. I'm from the NYC area. Here's my 3 cents...
Some destinations are certainly cheaper than others, but not always the way you might think. Apartments sound like a good bet for you and your friend. The silly things like breakfast and bottled water or coke can add up and it's nice to have a refrigerator. Plus on an extended trip of 3 weeks, sometimes a snack at home is about all you want after 6 restaurant meals.
For Western Europe, my favorite cities are Paris, Paris, and Paris... I don't think it is near as expensive there as Rome or Venice and probably not London either. There is just so much to do there, and you can work around a lot of budgets depending on accommodations, dining decisions and neighborhood. The museum fees are relatively reasonable compared to Rome and Venice. In fact, some museums in Paris are free at certain times/days.
I haven't been to London for a number of years, but I did love it - again lots to do and a variety of budgets but I'm thinking it would be very expensive now. I also really loved Amsterdam...not insanely expensive and a fun city with great art, food and the tulips etc. Avoid the redlight district for lodging if you can. I didn't care for that part although lots of tourist think its cool...It just depressed me that it was in the middle of this really amazing city.
Just returned from Spain and it was fine, with some amazing architecture and history, but it was not my personal favorite. As my 17-year-old daughter, who loved it there said, "Mom, Seville seems a bit spring-breakish".... she hit the nail on the head for me... Although I loved Alhambra, Real Alcazar, Ronda and surrounding scenery, the whole Spanish tapas, very late dinner thing didn't thrill me the way I thought it would. Well, I'm 48 and beyond a lot of fried mushrooms and fishbits at a dirty table with squashed pommes frite underfoot - I'm not a big drinker either which I think makes you notice the cleanliness less. (oh boy, I bet I'll hear about this...)
We did see a great Flamenco act although I hear this is touch and go and we definitely got lucky - funnily we saw it in Costa del Sol which was not on our original itinerary (we left Seville early and decided to get in a few beach days). My husband preferred Madrid to Andalucia... I've not been to Madrid and can't comment. We also stayed in a wonderful Inn in the middle of an olive grove in Ronda and that was really nice.
If I went back to Spain I would do a lot of things differently, and that may make all the difference to the trip...I just feel like in Paris you can't go wrong as a first timer. I feel the same about Amsterdam. I'm not as much in love with Italy as others on Fodor's but I'd still pick Rome, Amalfi and Capri or Venice over Spain for a first trip.
Just MHO and you will need to decide what you are interested in seeing and doing, and what cities/countries might appeal to you. Spain <i>is</i> cheaper than much of the rest of Europe.
My daughter says that the food, the things to do there, and whether or not the place is pretty, all determine the 'loving it' factor. I think she's right about the criteria for a fun trip. (Her favorite city is far and away Florence and she has been pretty much to most of the major cities of Western Europe.)
If you like pasta and renaissance art and churches, Italy is a good place for it. If you like sitting in cafes and seeing amazing impressionistic art head to Paris. If tapas and Moorish architecture is your thing, go to Spain, gorgeous scenery and chocolate; don't miss Switzerland, etc. etc.
Well, no matter where you go, you will be glad you left brooklyn and opened up your worldview for a few weeks.
Keep us posted on your plans!
gruezi
