First time train traveler headed to Italy- What's the difference between Eurorail and Trenitalia?
Aug 3rd, 2003, 03:36 PM
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First time train traveler headed to Italy- What's the difference between Eurorail and Trenitalia?
Both seem to indicate the trains as ES, but the cost of trenitalia seems to be cheaper than the other? Also noticed that on some legs the duration is also less on Trenitalia. Were looking into Venice, Rome, Florence, and Pisa.
Aug 3rd, 2003, 03:40 PM
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Are you talking about Eurostar trains?
Trenitalia is another name for the Italian State Railways (Ferrovie della Stato)..Eurostar services are faster than regular services and require a seat reservation which is one reason they cost more. You'll probably be best taking a train from Florence to Pisa..takes about an hour and is regular (not Eurostar) service. Hope this helps a bit.
Trenitalia is another name for the Italian State Railways (Ferrovie della Stato)..Eurostar services are faster than regular services and require a seat reservation which is one reason they cost more. You'll probably be best taking a train from Florence to Pisa..takes about an hour and is regular (not Eurostar) service. Hope this helps a bit.
Aug 3rd, 2003, 04:33 PM
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Hello,
As Intrepid says Trenitalia is the Italian state railroad. When you say Eurorail, do you mean Eurostar as Intrepid says or are you talking about Eurail. If Eurostar, Intrepid is correct on the reservations, and they are indeed faster. If Eurail, this may be part of Rail Europe, a company that handles tickets and passes for all or most European countries.
I have been to Italy 8 times and have ridden the trains on 7 of those trips. I highly recommend the Italian railroad. Last fall I took the train from Milan to Venice to Florence to Naples and then to Rome. All but the first one was Eurostar. You may want to investigate the different types of passes the Italian railroad offers. I had one that allowed me 8 days of use in either one or two months. Sorry I don't remember which.
If you are dealing with a travel agent, he or she can help you. As can Rail Europe and very possibly Trenitalia. I do believe that the passes must be bought in this country.
I hope this helps some.
Sincerely,
Joan
As Intrepid says Trenitalia is the Italian state railroad. When you say Eurorail, do you mean Eurostar as Intrepid says or are you talking about Eurail. If Eurostar, Intrepid is correct on the reservations, and they are indeed faster. If Eurail, this may be part of Rail Europe, a company that handles tickets and passes for all or most European countries.
I have been to Italy 8 times and have ridden the trains on 7 of those trips. I highly recommend the Italian railroad. Last fall I took the train from Milan to Venice to Florence to Naples and then to Rome. All but the first one was Eurostar. You may want to investigate the different types of passes the Italian railroad offers. I had one that allowed me 8 days of use in either one or two months. Sorry I don't remember which.
If you are dealing with a travel agent, he or she can help you. As can Rail Europe and very possibly Trenitalia. I do believe that the passes must be bought in this country.
I hope this helps some.
Sincerely,
Joan
Aug 3rd, 2003, 04:59 PM
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From what's been described I guess it meant Eurorail with Euro Star service. I went to eurorail.com and trenitalia.com and the prices quoted were cheaper on trenitalia, but I wasn't able to go through the entire process as the option to buy is temporarily suspended.
Aug 3rd, 2003, 06:11 PM
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Presumably, the question stems from finding the website www.eurorail.com - - while I have not heard of it before, it appears to be a legitimate re-seller of RailEurope products. The webpage says "Copyright 2003 Online Travel Corp., Rosemont Illinois."
Trenitalia is the official state-run rail comapny of Italy. When you buy from them (and you can do this only in Europe), there is no middle man involved, and thus, no mark up.
RailEurope is a (predominantly North American) marketing consortium with an "exclusive" contract of its (17?) member countries' companies. It DOES mark up individual ("point-to-point"
rail travel (tickets and reservations), and RailEurope is authorized to sell passes which would be a bargain if you lived and worked in Europe - - i.e., if you were a traveling salesman and spent 5 days a week traveling around by train.
There is an almost folkloric view that they are the best bargain in transportation around Europe - - the problem with that view is that induces you to travel around a lot more than you might wisely do (since you have pre-purchased many hundreds of dollars worth of rail travel in advance) - - and low cost airlines in Europe are a far better use of time and money for any trip over say, 500-800 miles.
So, yes, the trains are the same - - whether you buy tickets from Trenitalia (there) or from RailEurope or EuroRail or whomever, there is a generous markup here.
Best wishes,
Rex Bickers
Floyds Knobs, Indiana
Trenitalia is the official state-run rail comapny of Italy. When you buy from them (and you can do this only in Europe), there is no middle man involved, and thus, no mark up.
RailEurope is a (predominantly North American) marketing consortium with an "exclusive" contract of its (17?) member countries' companies. It DOES mark up individual ("point-to-point"
rail travel (tickets and reservations), and RailEurope is authorized to sell passes which would be a bargain if you lived and worked in Europe - - i.e., if you were a traveling salesman and spent 5 days a week traveling around by train.There is an almost folkloric view that they are the best bargain in transportation around Europe - - the problem with that view is that induces you to travel around a lot more than you might wisely do (since you have pre-purchased many hundreds of dollars worth of rail travel in advance) - - and low cost airlines in Europe are a far better use of time and money for any trip over say, 500-800 miles.
So, yes, the trains are the same - - whether you buy tickets from Trenitalia (there) or from RailEurope or EuroRail or whomever, there is a generous markup here.
Best wishes,
Rex Bickers
Floyds Knobs, Indiana
Aug 3rd, 2003, 06:46 PM
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www.eurorail.com used to be an independent travel agency, I think, as I used to use it as it had great links directly to every European railway web site. Now I have noticed it was bought out by Raileurope, I guess, and I don't think those good links are on there any more.
Some people use the term eurorail to mean Eurailpasses, though--probably means Raileurope.
Some people use the term eurorail to mean Eurailpasses, though--probably means Raileurope.
Aug 4th, 2003, 12:58 AM
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With the greatest of respect for Rex I do not understand why one would be "induced to travel around a lot more than you might wisely do" by having a rail pass any MORE so than by having available to you the so-called "low-cost" airlines. Speaking for myself, I travel as much as I want..no more and no less..when I use a rail pass, am willing to pay the premium for the convenience of having it so I don;t have to wait in lines for tickets, use the machines, etc. And this is a choice I freely make and while knowing the so-called "cheaper" options of not having one, spending time behind the wheel of a car, or using airlines that sometimes collect and deposit me lengthy BUS rides from the center of a city.
Perhaps we'd get more praise if we saved our money by not using agencies such as the hated Raileurope which is owned by the railroads themselves and spent it instead on other aspects of travel dictated by others.
Sorry for the rant but after a while this ever constant trashing of people who use rail passes and agencies such as Raileurope gets to be a bit much.
Perhaps we'd get more praise if we saved our money by not using agencies such as the hated Raileurope which is owned by the railroads themselves and spent it instead on other aspects of travel dictated by others.
Sorry for the rant but after a while this ever constant trashing of people who use rail passes and agencies such as Raileurope gets to be a bit much.
Aug 4th, 2003, 01:58 AM
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With regards to travelling by train in Italy I am in complete agreement with Rex in that a rail pass can cost considerably more than the amount of trips required . To reach Siena, Lucca, San Gimignano, Arezzo and others within the mileage costs no more than around $12US return, hence the costs are very reasonable. I have nothing but praise for italian trains, no matter what the class or speed, they all ran on time and were great fun and very comfortable.
Aug 4th, 2003, 04:38 AM
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Hi rohani,
Raileurope is an agency for selling tickets and railpasses. They do not list all of the trains available to you.
Trenitalia is the Italian national rail system. You cannot buy tickets from them online outside Italy.
It is cheaper to buy your tickets in Italy.
Should you wish to buy your tickets and reservations from the US, you will pay about $3 for an IC train and $12 for an ES* train for reservations in addition to the price charged by Trenitalia.
I suggest you use Euraid (1 941-480-1555).
Raileurope is an agency for selling tickets and railpasses. They do not list all of the trains available to you.
Trenitalia is the Italian national rail system. You cannot buy tickets from them online outside Italy.
It is cheaper to buy your tickets in Italy.
Should you wish to buy your tickets and reservations from the US, you will pay about $3 for an IC train and $12 for an ES* train for reservations in addition to the price charged by Trenitalia.
I suggest you use Euraid (1 941-480-1555).
Aug 4th, 2003, 07:11 AM
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Intrepid's "protest" against my "constant trashing" of (those who use) rail passes and RailEurope was at least reasonably civil, and so I will try to reply with similar civility.
It is true that I am consistent in my opinions that a Eurailpass is rarely the bargain that many (especially novice travelers) assume it to be. I believe that Intrepid takes the position that I agree to be the right one - - so we are not really in different camps on this: plan your itinerary (tenatively at least) first, THEN figure out how to purchase that travel.
This is in contrast to the implication I hear that "we have decided to travel x weeks in Europe; we know we will want to buy a rail pass and we have questions about how to use it to carry out an x-y-z itinerary".
I got off topic with regard to the original question, since there was nothing asked about rail passes at all. It was a segue (in MY mind) from the raison d'etre for RailEurope and other marketing organizations - - in my attempt to explain the difference between the rail companies themselves, and ticketing agencies (including resellers of rail passes) who do NOT actually operate rail services.
I'll change the subject a little further and pose this rhetorical question: why is there a successful "brokerage" industry in Europe car rental from which you can get the exact same rental at a lower price than the rental company would offer it "direct" to the public? but no similar "discount" choice for rail travel without "hefty" pre-purchase of "days" of travel (i.e., rail passes)?
I suppose that the difference is inventory maintenance. A rail company has about 30-40 seats per car, and cannot control the "stocking" of excess "inventory" of seats as easily as a car rental company can. Thus, it benefits from keeping those seats "priced down" for walk-up purchases. A car rental company can increase or decrease its inventory one car at a time, and impulse buyers pose a challenge; thus the premium price.
Last of all, I still think that low-cost air travel is the way to cover large distances. And if you remove those lengthy train routes from the calculation of rail pass cost, it makes a big difference. But I realize that others consider overnight train travel an interesting way to conserve on lodging costs. I prefer a place to sleep that doesn't "go away" when the train pulls into the station.
It is true that I am consistent in my opinions that a Eurailpass is rarely the bargain that many (especially novice travelers) assume it to be. I believe that Intrepid takes the position that I agree to be the right one - - so we are not really in different camps on this: plan your itinerary (tenatively at least) first, THEN figure out how to purchase that travel.
This is in contrast to the implication I hear that "we have decided to travel x weeks in Europe; we know we will want to buy a rail pass and we have questions about how to use it to carry out an x-y-z itinerary".
I got off topic with regard to the original question, since there was nothing asked about rail passes at all. It was a segue (in MY mind) from the raison d'etre for RailEurope and other marketing organizations - - in my attempt to explain the difference between the rail companies themselves, and ticketing agencies (including resellers of rail passes) who do NOT actually operate rail services.
I'll change the subject a little further and pose this rhetorical question: why is there a successful "brokerage" industry in Europe car rental from which you can get the exact same rental at a lower price than the rental company would offer it "direct" to the public? but no similar "discount" choice for rail travel without "hefty" pre-purchase of "days" of travel (i.e., rail passes)?
I suppose that the difference is inventory maintenance. A rail company has about 30-40 seats per car, and cannot control the "stocking" of excess "inventory" of seats as easily as a car rental company can. Thus, it benefits from keeping those seats "priced down" for walk-up purchases. A car rental company can increase or decrease its inventory one car at a time, and impulse buyers pose a challenge; thus the premium price.
Last of all, I still think that low-cost air travel is the way to cover large distances. And if you remove those lengthy train routes from the calculation of rail pass cost, it makes a big difference. But I realize that others consider overnight train travel an interesting way to conserve on lodging costs. I prefer a place to sleep that doesn't "go away" when the train pulls into the station.
Aug 4th, 2003, 09:48 AM
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I've also been trying to figure out the cost of individual tickets versus the Italian State Railway passes. While the Trenitalia site is great for finding train schedules, I haven't been able to actually get any prices from the site since it seems to require registration using an Italian postal code. I only need travel for about four days and the "Flexi Railcard" seems to be around $200. Any suggestions on how to get fares for individual segments? Florence to Varenna, or Milan to Manarola, for example.
Thanks
Thanks
Aug 4th, 2003, 12:46 PM
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Although an Italian postal code is required to actually buy tickets from the Treniotalia website (or at least that's what I've always understood), I have never thought it difficult to see prices there.
Aug 4th, 2003, 12:51 PM
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Thanks for all the responses. I too was planning to get the Flexi Railcard for $200 or so. We will only be using the train from Venice to Rome (1 day) and then for a day from Rome to Pisa, Florence, and then back to Rome. The cost I calculated for all of these segments from Eurorail/Rail Europe was over $200 per person (1 or 2 segments with First Class). I would rather have my tickets in hand and reserved seats, then to wait in long lines, etc...
If you have the Flexi do you have to select it for specific times or you can just get on? What happens to the reserved seats if you can just get on?
Thanks for the number for Euraid. I'll be giving them a call....
If you have the Flexi do you have to select it for specific times or you can just get on? What happens to the reserved seats if you can just get on?
Thanks for the number for Euraid. I'll be giving them a call....
Aug 4th, 2003, 02:01 PM
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Hi Rohani,
The cost of your trip, if you buy your tickets in Italy (1 cl on ES*, excluding Pisa) is 151 E or about $175.
A 4 day Flexi Pass is $200 PLUS you have to pay for the reservations (about $12 on an ES*, $3 on an IC)
You can't just get on an ES*. All seats are reserved. You can get on an IC or regional train, but you might have to stand.
The cost of your trip, if you buy your tickets in Italy (1 cl on ES*, excluding Pisa) is 151 E or about $175.
A 4 day Flexi Pass is $200 PLUS you have to pay for the reservations (about $12 on an ES*, $3 on an IC)
You can't just get on an ES*. All seats are reserved. You can get on an IC or regional train, but you might have to stand.
Aug 5th, 2003, 05:32 AM
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Hi Ira,
Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but when I do as you suggested and select the red box with the arrow, the Trenitalia site takes me to specifics about that particular train (#3106, Pisa to Florence, departure, arrival, and services, for example). But when I then select the "fare" button (light blue at the bottom of the screen) the site takes me to a sign-in screen that requires a user id and password.
Thanks for any suggestion on what I'm doing wrong?!
Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but when I do as you suggested and select the red box with the arrow, the Trenitalia site takes me to specifics about that particular train (#3106, Pisa to Florence, departure, arrival, and services, for example). But when I then select the "fare" button (light blue at the bottom of the screen) the site takes me to a sign-in screen that requires a user id and password.
Thanks for any suggestion on what I'm doing wrong?!
Aug 5th, 2003, 05:44 AM
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Hi sheep,
when you click the button you get a new screen with the train details.
**Most of the time** you will get the fare as well.
Your Florence/Varenna and Manarola/Milan are two of those times it doesn't come up.
Florence to Milan is 49 and 21 on the ES*.
Try your itinerary at www.railsaver.com to see if you need a railpass.
when you click the button you get a new screen with the train details.
**Most of the time** you will get the fare as well.
Your Florence/Varenna and Manarola/Milan are two of those times it doesn't come up.
Florence to Milan is 49 and 21 on the ES*.
Try your itinerary at www.railsaver.com to see if you need a railpass.
Aug 5th, 2003, 05:46 AM
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Sheepdog, a few months back Ira told me how to get the fare to come up on the Trenitalia schedule, and it is exactly as he said--click on the red box with the arrow. That does indeed bring up the specifics, and the fare is listed immediately underneath the box, left hand side of page.
Aug 5th, 2003, 09:34 AM
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Hi Ira,
Thanks for the tip on RailSaver. It gave me exactly what I need. I guess the routes I selected on Trenitalia just didn't provide the fare calculation. Based in the info from RailSaver the cost between individual tickets and an Trenitalia Flexicard pass is a toss up. Maybe the pass would be more convenient? -- Thanks again
Thanks for the tip on RailSaver. It gave me exactly what I need. I guess the routes I selected on Trenitalia just didn't provide the fare calculation. Based in the info from RailSaver the cost between individual tickets and an Trenitalia Flexicard pass is a toss up. Maybe the pass would be more convenient? -- Thanks again
