I'm planning a trip in Europe this summer, from the end of June through July, travelling mainly by train. My interests tend toward places of natural beauty, history and great architecture, anything horsey and generally getting to explore something of the culture of different countries and their cities. That probably covers a lot - but technology and partying, say, are definitely not on my agenda

I did originally want to keep it to 31-32 days due to work experience plans but have decided it'd be better to add in the extra few days both so a friend can join me on the last part and to give me an extra three days to adjust things with. Having looked at other threads I'm more aware of the whole 'too much/too little time' cliche - so I'd really appreciate any advice with regards to my plan so far (including if I've given a place more time than necessary, though I doubt that, and where I could add in a day or so or what I could see around each place).

That being said, I don't mind some places being a bit of a glimpse before moving on quickly - I've done that deliberately with Vienna, because I just really want to see the Spanish Riding School and hope to return to Austria next year, and with Bratislava. I'm also being a bit sentimental with wanting to finish up in Wroclaw because I've got part-Polish ancestry and would like to finish the first escapade I've done like this in Poland - despite the long travel time to time actually spent in Wroclaw that it'll cost me...

Day 1 - FLIGHT to Italy; overnight in Sorrento
Days 2-4 - day trips to Capri, Amalfi and Positano/Praiano
Day 5 - TRAVEL to Orvieto on morning (3+ hours not counting time in between trains)
Day 6 - day trip to Civita di Bagnoregio, (overnight in Orvieto/Civita)
Day 7 - Move on to Florence (only an hour by train so can see sights either side)
Day 8 - day trip to Lucca (could condense previous day to direct from Orvieto to Lucca but would be a 4 hour journey; probably best to keep the extra day)
Day 9 - day trip to Siena (this is the day after the Palio, and a Sunday - will buses run?)

OVERNIGHT train to Ljubljana
Day 10 - sights in Ljubljana
Day 11 - day trip to Lipica stud
Day 12 - day trip to caves (Postojna or Skocjan, any recommendations?)
Day 13 - move on to Bled, spend the rest of the day exploring or walking
Day 14 - kayaking/rafting in Bled

Day 15 - TRAVEL to Budapest (overnight train, or put in 1-2 days for a stop along the way?) - Would put in an extra day or two in Slovenia if there were any thermal/mineral springs with the possibility of (safe) wild swimming
Days 16-18 - see Budapest, go to thermal baths, cooking school (one morning)
Day 19 - move on to Kecskemet, go horse riding on the plains
Day 20 - day trip to see horse show

Day 21 - TRAVEL on to Vienna, see something of the city for the rest of the day
Day 22 - visit Spanish Riding School
Day 23 - day trip to Bratislava; tour on 'oldtimer' coach; see Devin castle, wander...

Day 24 - TRAVEL to Cesky Krumlov (around 3.5 hours in the morning), see something of the city
Days 25-26 - see the castle, spend a day rafting/kayaking, maybe cycling in countryside or horse riding if it's particularly special or different to English riding in this area
Day 27 - TRAVEL on to Prague
Days 28-29 - see Prague, visit Charles Bridge at dawn, jazz night...

Day 30 - TRAVEL on to Wroclaw
Day 31 - Relax in Wroclaw
Day 32 - FLIGHT back to the UK

As I said before, I've got three more days to fit in (looking back through I was thinking an extra day in each of the Czech cities might be a good idea and maybe another in Slovenia somewhere).

Pointers would be much appreciated in particular on:
- time given for each place (too much or too little)
- recommended things to see/do/experience in each place
- any dodgy bits of travelling such as awkward trains or misjudged distances, suggestions for switching around the order of places if it would reduce travelling times
- where I may really struggle with next to no grasp of the local language
- oh, and whether I'm likely to be way too tired to care about the next place I'm visiting

Thanks, and apologies for the ridiculously long post

Your first trip to Europe, how exciting!
I follow my own 'slow traveller' ethos of not packing in too much.This belief evolved due to past misadventures in my travels where I packed in far too much each day.
Planes, trains and buses can be cancelled, delayed etc and that has a knock on effect for well planned trips.
I feel that you have not given yourself much time to enjoy each stop.
A rest day, where you can choose to do absolutely nothing but sleep and eat and wander (plus do washing) are so important.
Mind you,I am middle aged and not the active person I was in my 30's! So if you are young please disregard my staid advice!
Where do you fly into? Rome? How are you getting to Sorrento? Are you staying in Sorrento to visit Capri etc?

Hi K,

Are there reasons for skipping Rome and Venice?

PS

Have you calculated how much of your total time will be spent riding trains?

Consider this... each time you change cities you use up most of a day. You do get to look out a train window but most of your day is the logistics of the move. So as Ira is hinting above... you will lose so much time sitting on trains there will be little time left to actually see the places you are planning to see.

I think you need to rethink and trim the schedule down.

I agree -- too much running around, especially all the daytrips in Italy. You're going to hit all the daytripping tourist buses, for one thing

I agree that, especially for a first trip, you're trying to fit in a bit too much. There are so many wonderful places to choose from, I know that's it's difficult to cut a list of places to see!

For all the cooking classes, kayaking, horseback riding, etc., you'll need to schedule or at least book those, right? Are you planning to do that ahead of time, or once you're there (with the help of your hotel)? Doing that will take time, and the time frames may not always fit with the somewhat-limited time that you have. Maybe it's just not my travel style, but while I'm very active, I would find it mentally tiring to be planning so many activities that I'd have to arrange specific times for.

I would agree with your thoughts that you add your 3 extra days to each of the big cities (excluding Vienna, this trip).

It sounds like you're a horseback rider. In that case, you'll be used to riding unfamiliar horses at unfamiliar stables, and I'm guessing you ride English. I took a riding vacation about 10 years ago. I was, to be very charitable, an intermediate rider, at best. So lots of things were more of a challenge to me, and I was riding at a stables in Italy where the trip was arranged by an American company, so I had confidence that the owners, facilities, the horses, etc. had been checked out by the American company. If you ride with a helmet, you'll need to take yours; they're not so common in Europe.

I've traveled in all the places you mentioned, except Slovenia and Wroclaw, and we also spent time in rural areas of the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary. We did not ever have a problem with language (except when I blew a tire on the rental car, but you won't have that issue!). As one very kind Czech told me, "nobody else speaks Czech," so they need to know a more universal language. I had various phrase books and restaurant items in the various languages, because I'm really into local cuisine. But almost all of the restaurants, even in the smallest towns, had menus in English (and German, usually).

Dear all - thanks so much for the replies so far, all seriously appreciated! I'll try to respond to each here, and add in another major question I need help with as circumstances have changed yet again in quite a big way since I posted this...

To Kimerley...
That's kind of what I'd feared, that I am trying to do too much, and yet like Lexma said it's so hard to relax things when you're thinking 'there's so much I want to do and make the most of my time while I get the chance to be there...' And I thought I'd cut it down drastically already! I'll definitely look through and try to put in more time (I had wondered about rest days like that so I'm glad you made a point of it or I might not have given it enough consideration), though I'm not sure how I'm going to choose...

Something I am a bit worried about, particularly from what you said, is that I might have issues if the travelling bits ARE delayed. I don't think I can afford to not book hostels ahead, can I? Particularly in the summer months and as a first-time traveller. Would the best way to go about it be to give a rest day at the start of each major stop or something, so that if things are delayed it'll at worst not eat into any planned activities?

Ah, the getting to Italy bit is also a bit of an issue. Flights are half the price to Rome that they are to Naples, but the timings would leave me getting in to Sorrento after 10pm without considering actual swapping between trains (of which I think there are two off the top of my head). The cost is fine - if I get a railpass, which I may not since reading an article debating whether they're worth it (I'd have to check that when I price up all the travelling). The other option I'm aware of is flying into Naples. I realise now this is probably a much more sensible option, considering inexperience and train costs anyway? I'm trying to keep the earlier Italy parts cheaper for a friend to join me, but unless I can find an alternative I don't see us having much choice but to fly to Naples and get a transfer to Sorrento.


(Also to Ira, ParisAmsterdam and Vancouver...)
Yes, we're staying in Sorrento for four nights with a view to visiting Capri/Amalfi coast from there. Was this one of the ones where coach trips are a bit of an issue? I've read in Lonely Planet's Europe on a Shoestring that the ferry to Capri is only 20 minutes, so no problem, and that to Amalfi (furthest we'd be going along the coast) it's about 90 minutes, which isn't desirable but would it be that bad? I'm hoping to view the Amalfi coast section as relaxed, able to choose on the day where we go with a rough idea beforehand... does it sound feasible, or am I being a bit naive?

To Ira...
I did deliberately leave out Rome and Venice. I have visited Venice in the past, though admittedly it was only briefly on a school trip where they let us loose for the day. I guess that left it lower on my list of priorities than other places I'd not been to before, though I'd definitely go back some other time. With Rome, I guess there's just so much there to see that I'd love to go 'someday' in the future for a holiday that would do it more justice - spend a week or two there maybe - so decided to put time into other places for this particular epic trip

On a similar note, Florence for example is not a city that I'd intended to give much time to in itself on this particular trip because (forgive me for putting so much trust in books!) Lonely Planet just made other places sound more interesting/feasible considering how popular Florence is, and apparently there being so many queues for everything. That sounds quite naive now I've put it into text!

Suggest you organise your accom before going, to save time, and you'll need to leave your bag while you sightsee before checking in time.
Remember to book your seats for each leg of journey - having a ticket is not enough. Write down what you want so you can show it to ticket seller just in case their English isn't great. Same for taxi drivers etc to get to accom, or to get directions to walk. Best to print out Google map directions to each accom from the station to take with you.
There is so much to see in Europe - you will go again and again over the years, so make a clear focus and take as much time as you can. Enjoy it.

To Ira, ParisAmsterdam and Vancouver...
I'd tried to write off every major travelling day as one where most of the time would be spent on a train, or relaxing on the evening once I got to the new place. This attitude considered, have I still really not left enough time to have an enjoyable experience in most places?

I think coming from originally looking through set itineraries from tour companies like STA travel it seemed perfectly normal to see so many places, and compared to them I thought this wasn't TOO bad. I'm a bit unsure now about getting the balance right on the whole 'Europe tour' idea - spending a week's holiday in each destination over several years certainly seems like the best way to get the most out of the places, and yet it can work as a one-off all at once trip if you get it right somehow..? Sorry, that wasn't too eloquent. I guess I'm needing help with the 'how many days is sufficient to have a great time (and for it to be worth the travelling) even though more would be better' bit. Any recommendations for specific parts of the journey, from your own experiences? Where do I need to add time in to make it feasible? And what to do about those day trips, short of staying a couple nights in each place :/

And Vancouver - I hadn't given that a thought. Is there anything I can actually do about that?

(Sorry - note to Vancouver was re buses)

To Lexma...
I've just realised what you mean about the planning once I'm there. I guess it's guidebooks making it all sound easy again, particularly sitting at my desk at home... Thanks for that. It's starting to sound like I really, majorly, need to cut this down to a couple of countries or something (thereby reducing travel distances) and appreciate them more fully, for what I would previously have considered a long time for a 'normal' holiday... curses to the cliche of a student Europe trip!
Can I ask how you do kind of arrange your time travelling? Maybe a typical itinerary would help me see where I'm going wrong? Bearing in mind, that I do still want to keep this lighter and more varied than a normal holiday I might take later in life when I'm not trying to be too ambitious with the wanderlust

Thanks for the pointer about the helmet. That was a bad assumption of mine, and I hope I would have had the sense to come across that in more detailed planning. I'm a confident, careful rider and I do ride English. I'll be sure to make safety/ethics etc a consideration when planning any actual riding.

Ah, and that is a definite relief to hear that the language should be manageable! Complacent though the Brits may be with languages, it's reassuring to know that if my attempts to be polite and speak a foreign language fail I shouldn't get stranded too badly

To Barbara...
Thanks, I will definitely do that, and thanks for mentioning the specific seats. On that note, would you recommend booking specific seats with an interrail pass (which you can do as well as travelling spontaneously, I think, though it may have a small fee for the reservation in certain countries), or booking train travel WITHOUT a rail pass at all? Or do I just need to check the cost of each leg of the journey and decide whether I want to pay any extra that the rail pass might be for the security of not getting stuck with an expensive journey?
And again, thank you - for the reminder I definitely need It's quite easy to get caught up in planning and forget the point of it... though I really can't wait to go, wherever it turns out to be

Kat -

Just a few thoughts...

You can have a very nice visit of Florence in 2 - 3 days. Seems silly to be there and not do that. It is a small, walkable city with some wonderful museums etc. Nowhere the size and overwhelming feeling of Rome.

I too would have a short visit to Capri, Amalfi, Sorrento. Lovely area but not as much to see/do as other things on your itinerary. But, perhaps a nice breakup to the pace of your trip.

Trains in Europe are expensive. You might consider flying to some places. You can get pretty cheap airfares - usually less than the train. I like trains, but overnight sleepers are not often very restful unless you have the whole cabin or are a VERY good sleeper.

There is a jazz boat in Prague that is kind of fun. You might look into it. Pretty views of the city at night, decent meal, and jazz.

Have a great time.

Ok... the other big thing now is that I've just found out about the potential for work experience (in Slovenia in fact) for one or two (preferably two) of a set of ten day periods. Amazingly, they would fit into the whole itinerary beautifully - the day I'm supposed to arrive in Slovenia, I would need to be there.

I could cut out Lake Bled to be enjoyed at leisure sometime in the future, have the time between the two slots (a period of four days) to see some of the places that I wanted to see in Slovenia (i.e. Lipica and the caves, which are actually a little closer than Ljubljana is to them), and then continue the trip from Ljubljana...

The issue is that this puts everything forward further into summer. I'd be in Hungary, Austria and Czech Republic from the end of July through to about 16th August latest. What is the climate like then? Would it be much different in terms of heat and tourist crowds to a trip that finished around 26th July anyway, without the work placement? Are there any periods I need to avoid, because of crowds/heat/local places shutting?

As ever, thank you - this is helping so much

To Gruezi...
Thanks, and to be honest that's a fair point. And it'd make day trips less of a trial to have more free days there to see Florence... Hmmm. It really helps to hear things simply from people who've seen places, rather than read between the lines through books/internet!

It's a pity the Amalfi coast can't be somewhere in the middle of the trip then though it'll be right at the end of a year of uni, so relaxation with best friend will be much appreciated

Again, good to hear firsthand opinions re the sleepers. I'd figured that airports would be more complicated, with transfers and check-in times taking up so much of a day as well (and the whole trauma of scary customs staff making me feel guilt - I admit I prefer the idea of a train where, maybe, I could read a book in peace from start to finish!). Is this not the case? And might a railpass not help with that, while I can still get the cheaper youth one? I will look into flights though, particularly for the more distant trips :/

A jazz boat? Oh wow, that looks amazing... Thank you!

Kat -

Why not just settle in to one place on the Amalfi coast - say Capri or Positano - and not run about each day? That might be a lot more fun then running around the place and you will get a better feel for things...You might enjoy relaxing on the beach for a day or two.

I have never met a young person who does not love Florence...If you get bored, you can move on. There are some wonderful restaurants you can search on here on this site that are not too pricey. Great shops, cafes, pretty squares, cute Italian boys and lots of other students, etc. etc. Oh, and yes, Botticelli's Birth of Venus if you can squeeze it in:

http://artchive.com/artchive/B/botti...venus.jpg.html

Not to mention the Duomo and a gazillion other great things that will amaze even the non-art history student.


I also prefer trains, but they do take a lot longer sometimes (not always) and are definitely not really cheaper. Better for the environment and also more relaxing which is a plus so I hear you but my husband thinks I'm crazy when I start training all over Europe. So maybe add in a flight or two.


I have not had one scary customs experience in Europe (or really anywhere) and I travel a LOT. Do you have a profile-ish look? I ask because my husband used to get stopped a lot by security when he was young. He is rather swarthy looking. That doesn't happen anymore now that he is older. (must look harmless now with wife and kids in tow - hee, hee.)

You have a lot scheduled in for sure and I think you will have a more rewarding and fun trip if you cut back and settle in a bit more.

Also, I don't know much about couch surfing first hand, but I am the mom of a 20-year-old and I think perhaps you are female (50% chance?) so must give a small lecture - please forgive. Do use your intuition and walk away if needed. Also, perhaps save enough money for an occasional hotel to have some privacy every so often over the month.

Jazz boat:

http://www.jazzboat.cz/en/

Have fun and try entering some search words here in the forums. You will find a lot of amazing information - I come here before every trip I take and I am always so impressed by how right Fodorite's are about travel.

Oh hi, you asked me to reply about the tour busses. I guess what I mean is that if you are going to stay in one place only to do daytrips here and there, you will be likely on the same tour circuit as a lot of day tour compaies (ie usually leaving early in the morning and returning before dinner time). In my own experience, I try to stagger my times if possible to avoid this -- usually arriving around lunchtime to hit the museums just when the tours are leaving for lunch or arriving around 3 pm and staying until 8 pm or so. (Have to check your bus/train schedules of course - this won't work for Capri unless as last hydrofoil - I think - is around 5 pm). I've also done it in reverse -- instead of arriving later in the day, I leave around 6:30 in the morning and arrive at the new town really before anything opens, go to a cafe, and walk the streets (great time for an independent city tour), then head back to my home base in the early afternoon.

Although it's maybe a bit of an unusual suggestion, I like doing it this way, as I find that experiencing a city in the early evening, after the daytrippers have left, has an entirely different vibe. I've also been known to check out organized day tours out of a city, look at their routing order, and go the opposite direction. That works too. (sneaky)

Did you check out http://www.momondo.com/ for cheap flights Rome to Naples? I think it's going to be pretty stressful to get to Sorrento that first night unless you fly or hire a driver (prob prohibitively expensive). You could o-night Rome and catch the direct bus from Tiburtina station in Rome to Sorrento (dep 7 am, 3 1/2 to 4 hours I think).

I think maybe choose 2 cities for Italy and work it out from there -- you don't want to be dragging your luggage from A to B all the time, as someone mentioned above.

I'd add some more time onto Prague for sure - at least 1 day.