ina

Bought plane tickets to London for August!!!!! Purchased guide books and found out that we are not very successful in planning the trip without some additional information, tried to find it on the web and found this forum so if anyone can answer some questions and give some advice we'd greatly appreciate it. <BR>We are two couples with teenagers and it is our first time abroad. <BR>We’ll fly in Gatwick airport Friday morning and we’ll be driving around the country for 10 days.<BR> We ‘d like to visit Bath, Stonehenge, Windsor castle, York, Salisbury, Loch Lomond, Edinburgh, Hadrian's wall, Durham, Windermere lake, Greenwich. <BR>1. Is it possible to visit all those paces in 10 days?<BR>2.What is the best direction to take the first day: to Bath or to York?<BR>3. What will be in your opinion the best trip itinerary?<BR>4. Are there other places that we should visit, or not visit?<BR>After the trip we’ll be returning the car in London and staying for a week. What is better: to drive into London on Monday morning, put the luggage in the hotel and return the car or to drive in the evening before and return the car in the morning?<BR>Any additional help and advice will be very appreciated.<BR><BR><BR>

Suzy

That is way too much for 10 days. Distances on British maps are deceiving -- unless you're on the superhighway (the M roads) you can expect to cover about 30 miles per hour. You cannot reasonably include Loch Lomond and Edinburgh on this trip. I strongly recommend that you cut your list of destinations in half, and you'll enjoy your trip twice as much.<BR><BR>Greenwich is easily reached on the London tube system, and parking is terrible, so include that in your London days rather than your road-trip days.<BR><BR>Likewise, Windsor is relatively easy to reach by train and bus; even Bath has a train station right in the city.<BR><BR>Sounds like you have at lest 6 people in your party. You really do not want to be spending long hours in the cr every day.<BR><BR>

elvira

First off, get two cars, with two drivers for each car. You can mix'n'max passengers - if there's friction between a couple of you, then you can split up and calm down; if all the gals want to go shopping and the guys want to go to a car musuem, there won't be any need to compromise. Believe me, on a road trip like yours, you don't want everyone in one car.<BR><BR>Yes, you can do all that, but you'll be driving more than seeing. I'd suggest you do Stonehenge/Salisbury as a day trip from London (maybe make this "day one" of London on your way to it). If each of you just has one small suitcase, you could drop the car in Salisbury and take the train into London, avoiding having to deal with the city traffic and parking. If you really want to go to Edinburgh, why not fly from Gatwick/Luton/Stansted that first day and start your trip from there? Pick up the car in Edinburgh for the rest of the trip.<BR><BR>Bath is a whole day; York is a whole day; Edinburgh is at least 1 1/2 to 2 days. That's four days without taking into consideration drive times. I've not been to Windsor, but have to a couple of other royal castles, and they are a good 3/4 of a day at least as in you arrive at 10am and leave at 2-3pm (you'll want lunch at some point). If you mean Greenwich of Meantime fame, that you can do while in London.<BR><BR>Edinburgh, Loch Lomond, Hadrian's Wall, Durham, Lake Windermere, York, Bath, Salisbury/Stonehenge. Do Windsor and Greenwich from London. Or switch Bath with Windsor and do Bath out of London.<BR><BR>

Bob C

Yes it can be done. You need to get some good maps and start planing a route. You will not be able to tour York for a day or tour Edinburgh for a day. You will have to do high light tours and a lot of one night stops. Years ago we did a trip from Dover to Edinburgh in about 10 days and saw more than you are. It just has to be well planned, and don't try to see everything.

Ani

I really think it is a lot to do...we went to Britain in March with 9 days (11 including travel time)-and made it to York the first day with 2 nights there -we left wishing we had more time-then on to N. Wales-with a detour to fountains abbey that was one day travel basically-with 2 nights in Wales we again left wishing we had more time-we seriously hauled ass in both places...with so much more to see. We then went to the cotswolds for 2 nights and did Stonehenge salisbury and winchester on our way to london in one day. This was really fast paced-we drove a LOT and in hind sight would stay longer in certain places. There was no way we had 5 hours to drive out of our way to edinburgh. All I'm saying is you might try to pick a few less places to visit and savor them while you are there. This advice was given to me before we left and I feel it was some GOOD advice. IT's too amazing a place to run through it-you can always go back as we definately intend to.

ineedalife

You need expert advice in posting an appropatie topping!!!<BR><BR>ina, get a life

janis

ina: No your itinerary really CANNOT be done. If you were a single traveler you might be able to JUST make it to all those places. But besides the 30 to 40 mph you will average, if there are 6 of you, everything will take 3 times longer. This is not an exaggeration at all, Everyone will be on different "rest break" schedules, one will want to linger a few minutes longer at this castle and another will just HAVE to check out that cute little craft shop.<BR><BR>And for six with luggage you will really have to rent a minivan so everything will take that much longer.<BR><BR>What I would do is stay the FIRST week in London. You won't have a car in the city and it is easier - especially on the driver - to get over the jet lag before you sit in a car for hours a day.<BR><BR>So 7 days in London in a 3 bedroom apartment. During that week do a day trip to Windsor by train. You could also do Bath or Salisbury/Stonehenge as day trips from London. And doing it that way - if anyone didn't want to see Stonehenge or Windsor they could skip the day trip and stay in London (believe me - with that much togetherness most of you will want some time on your own)<BR><BR>The rent a car and drive up the M1 to York - stay 2 nights. Then on up the A1 through Northumberland with a side detour to Hadrian's wall, to Edinburgh and stay 3 or 4 nights. Then leave Edinburgh - Hit Loch Lomond if you must - it is lovely but EXTREMELY crowded in August. Same goes for the Lake district. if you could bring yourself to skip L Lomond and drive straight to the Lakes and spend 2 nights there. Then into either N wales or the Cotswolds for 3 days and back to the airport to fly home.<BR><BR>Edinburgh triples in size in August due to the festivals and Tattoo. Many places have a 3 or 4 night minimum- and most are probably already full. So if you plan on going to Edinburgh - make your reservations NOW !!!!

doug

Summary from above:<BR>-Day trips from London to Greenwich and Windsor. Take the Thames boat to Greenwich great half day. Train to Windsor. Fun way to try the train also a good half day.<BR>-Stonehenge-Salsibury-Bath, Arrival day +2 more very full days with car(s)if you push. It's not to be missed and it's the best direction to start from Gatwick. M-25 to M-3<BR>-Recommendation to do London first is valid if that is an option.<BR>-North part haven't done it.<BR>-Try not to drive into London on Monday morning if you can avoid it. Try to drop the car in the city if you can avoid a drop charge.

nmm

Hi Ina, Just to give you a reference point I did a bus tour last year with almost the same exact itinerary that took 14 days. IMO you should factor in a day for jet lag. Once we headed out of Bath we spent about 5-6 hours per day driving to each location. Lock Lomond & Hadrian's Wall can be omitted if you're looking to cut time. The Lock will take too driving much time (although beautiful) and Hadrian's Wall is just that and would only take 5 mins to see, only worth the stop if you're driving directly through. Perhaps you can look at the tour I took as a reference point, www.cietours.com - british elegence to see what was covered in the time frame. Personally I would plan a tour that included London, Wales, and then a straight drive through to Edinburgh incl. Lake Windermere if you really included Scotland. The Cotswolds is not to be missed, an ideal trip would be to concentrate on southern England first and perhaps come back a second time to do the north country if possible. Hope this has been helpful. = )

Lori

As they say anything is possible, but I really think your schedule is overloaded as most everyone else said too. <BR><BR>I agree, go to London first. You don't want to be driving a minivan (and you will need one - better yet, as Elvira said 2 cars!) with jetlag. A week in London will get you on track more easily.<BR><BR>I think you will have to give up some of your plans - it's just not really doable considering the number of people you have with you, including (yikes) teenagers, who probably have a whole different agenda.<BR><BR>Stay in London at least a week (we go every year, there is so much to see a week is a drop in the bucket). Take a day trip to Bath, easy to do on the train from Paddington Station. Windsor Castle can be a 1/2 day trip (or a tour if you want to take one of them). Greenwich is easy to get to from London, via boat on the Thames, the Dockland's Light Railroad too. Each of these places takes time ... you can't see/do everything so you need to make some cuts.<BR><BR>Driving in the UK is very deceiving. Roads can be narrow, winding and slow. The motorways are like our freeways, but once you get off them you are in for a surprise! <BR><BR>Personally, if it were me, I'd just stay in London and do day trips. You can even get to York in 2 hours. With so many people to transport around it is not going to be fun, hardly everyone will want to see all the same things (and we have those teenagers view points to consider too). I'd stay put for 10 days and let the schedule work out to who ever wants to got to Bath (for instance) meet in the lobby at 8 a.m. and those that don't want to can go to Hampton Court, shopping, museums, a show, whatever.<BR><BR>10 days is overkill on togetherness - no matter how friendly you are you won't be by the end! Even husbands and wives need some distance occasionally on a trip! I frequently will leave my husband to take a nap in the apartment we rent and I go shopping or out to the grocery store or something.<BR><BR>You need to rethink this plan and make it more workable.

John

I'm with those who think driving right off the bat is unwise - unfamiliar rules of the road and right hand drive, jet lag induced fatigue, multiple vehicle management - sounds like an unwise choice.<BR><BR>I also think your list needs some editing or else you'll be backtracking, seeing repetitive things, and spending simply too much time behind the wheel. Regardless of the actual speed (and yes, except for motorways, average speeds tend to be lower than in N. America) driving in much of Britain is fairly intense; lots of traffic, small roads, trucks, roundabouts (traffic circles), the effect of which is to make it very tiring. The cars are smaller, too, so with couples and teenagers you will need plenty of leg-stretching and loo breaks.<BR><BR>Here's my suggestion. Gatwick is south of London, and most of your destinations are either north of London or require something of a "transit" through London to get there. So spend the first night or two, without a car, someplace south of London, preferably a smaller town with some interesting things to see. You can get to Salisbury on the train direct from Gatwick airport, but it involves a change of trains and takes 2 hours or more, so it wouldn't be my recommendation. Instead, I'd recommend Brighton, which is a mere 30 minutues on the train direct from the terminal, has plenty to see (funky pier, amazing Royal Pavilion palace, beaches, medieval old town), and will provide enough fresh air and "Instant Britain" input to energize you for the upcoming crusade.<BR><BR>Hit Salisbury and Stonehenge as a day trip in order to get used to driving (on rural roads in relatively short spans), then use the train to make the big journey, through London, all the way to Edinburgh. Tour the city, then pick up car or cars there, and zigzag your way south for the next few days, ending at Heathrow airport, outside London. Drop the cars there, and continue into London on the train or tube (or taxi - with so many traveling you may hit an "economy of scale" and rent a van taxi cheaper per person than all the other alternatives.) DON'T DRIVE YOURSELVES INTO LONDON. Putting London at the end of your trip makes all the sense in the world to me - you'll be awake for the theater or restaurants, you'll know to look right as you step off the curb (kerb) so some big red bus doesn't change your touring itinerary; after 10 days of mass togetherness you can all toodle off and do your own thing in the metropolis, you can shop till you drop and not have to schlep your purchases all over the country... plenty of good reasons.<BR><BR>Bath is an okay train day trip from London, and Greenwich is actually in London (try walking there under the river in the tunnel from Canary Wharf then take the boat back to Westminster.) Windsor is a London afternoon, Durham is a half day en route from Edinburgh to York (more is better of course.) If I were to suggest editing your route, I'd suggest skipping Loch Lomond and/or the Lake District, not because they're not beautiful places, but because your route can hug the North Sea coast more closely if you leave the northwest or west of Scotland to another trip. Both are hard to access from the east side of the country. <BR><BR>Use the Automobile Association to help find accommodation and for route planning - http://www.theaa.com/ - you may find that with a car you're better off (financially and otherwise) staying in smaller communities on the edge of the big cities and taking commuter trains or buses into town, rather than spending hours and pounds finding a stable for your pony.<BR><BR>Regardless, make sure you stop and enjoy the countryside. Britain is so much more than monuments and motorways.<BR><BR>Happy Planning.

Carla

Ina, If you are renting more than one car, consider buying a set of walkie-talkies to take with you to allow for communication between vehicles. I have several friends who have traveled in groups all over Europe and they swear this is not only a convenience, it has saved them from near disaster countless times!

ina

Thank you so much for your excellent advice, it’s much, much more then we expected.<BR>We decided to skip Windsor and Greenwich and go there on day trips from London like you suggested, skip the Lake District but try to see Loch Lomond and not to drive back from Scotland but take a train to London maybe from Edinburgh.<BR> <BR>We definitely want to see Bath, Stonehenge, Salisbury, York, Durham and Edinburgh.<BR>Is it possible and what will be the best way to do it? <BR>What do you think about returning by train? Is it a long journey? What is the best way to get tickets? Can you explain about boat trip to Greenwich?<BR>Thanks again<BR>

Ruth

In answer to your question about Greenwich, there are boats leaving from the pier near Embankment station, and from the Tower, quite frequently. No need to book. Most have a commentary about the sights you are passing.<BR><BR>one website is http://www.citycruises.com/rrrinfo.php<BR><BR>but there may be others. It gives an idea of timetables and prices.

jenviolin

Let me throw in a wild card: take 4 days out of your itinerary somewhere and rent a narrowboat near Basingstoke. They are completely self-catering and less expensive than a hotel, plus you drive (?) it yourself and operate all the locks yourself, which kids love. You can probably make it up to Windsor and back (might need more time for that). You can stop at pubs & restaurants along the way, read, sunbathe & play games on deck, and get a break from the frenzy of the tempo of the rest of your trip!

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janis

ina: Bath/Stonehenge/Slaisbury and Edinburgh/Durham/York are FABULOUS - but they are on opposite ends of the country and not easy to see in just 10 days. Since you also have a full week in London, think about doing it this way - - -<BR><BR>Fly into Gatwick and stay in London for the week. Bath is an easy day trip from London, and so is Salisbury/Stonehenge. But they are hard to do together unless you drive. So I would do Salisbury and Stonehenge as a day trip by train from London. <BR><BR>Then when you are done in London drive upthe M1/A1 to Yorkshire, Durham and Scotland. 2 days in York, Durham and Hadrians Wall on the way to Edinburgh, 3-4 days in Edinburgh, 1 day near Loch Lomond, 1 day in route down the M6, 1 night in Bath and then the last night at Gatwick before flying home. <BR><BR>OR -- you could rent a car for one day while in London and leave very early in the AM - drive to Salisbury first, then the short drive to Stonehenge. From there it takes less than an hour to drive to Bath so you could be there before noon easy (probably earlier since most folks only spend a short time at Stonehenge). Spend the rest of the day in Bath and then drive back along the M4 straight to London. it is about 110 miles and motorway all the way so it is a fast drive back. <BR>